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03-24-2008, 05:41 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Handled a K200D today and below are my observations:-

....

4. AF speed is the same, nothing considered speedy and it will become rather slow and hunt at just lower light conditions;

5. Mirror slap and shutter actions have been improved, smoother and quieter, very similar to the K20D, better than both K10D and K100D. Shutter lag and finder black out time are quite noticeable, close to the K20D for what I could see;

.......
I am waiting to see what other users have to say on (a) autofocus of the K20D in low light (b) shutterlag (if it is in fact quite noticeable as RH says)...

03-24-2008, 05:47 PM   #17
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As a relative newbie I am unaware of the history of RiceHigh here on the forum, but it is darned obvious from many of the replies that people bear him a great grudge. I do not see anything in this particular post to warrant some of these replies. So I'm thinking the best advice is to "chill folks".

I think his evaluation of the K200D is rather spot on. It seems to be a bit of a strange cousin in the body line-up. If there was an entry-level model below it, it would make sense. But on its own with the K20D I imagine it will be too expensive to match the competition in the eyes of most buyers. Why do I care? Because I would like Pentax to grab more market share, to succeed and be profitable. Because I have committed to their products.

Yes the K200D has weather sealing, but I do not think this is even in the top ten of most buyer's desires when they are shopping for a DSLR. Am I saying it's useless? No. Am I even saying I would not like that feature? No. I live in Ireland for goodness sake. But it'll only really interest me when all the FA limited lenses are re-issued as weatherproof versions. Until then it's a rather half-baked feature.
03-24-2008, 06:30 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
....
I do not see anything in this particular post to warrant some of these replies. So I'm thinking the best advice is to "chill folks".
Could not agree more

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I think his evaluation of the K200D is rather spot on. ...
Agrees again, at least partly.

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
...
But it'll only really interest me when all the FA limited lenses are re-issued as weatherproof versions. Until then it's a rather half-baked feature
Neither Canon or Nikon has any consumer weather proof lenses, and they probably never will. It is a pro feature, in K200D it is delivered in a consumer camera.

After one year of K10D use I can assure you. Weather sealed camera with unsealed lenses helpes a lot. I have dropped mine in the bod, several times. No harm done.
So, I'd say it gives you much more photographic freedom. YMMV

Unfortunately I will never be able to check it after my last accident. But I don't expect it to have survived at the bottom of the sea, at about 400 meters ;-)

MaritimTim
03-25-2008, 10:01 AM   #19
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K200D is more than K100D. I've already ordered K200D.
K200D is not upgrade of K100D. It's strange downgrade of K10D with some from K20D.

The main difference vs K100D (K100D super)
- 10 MP APS-C sensor SONY
- Dust-proof, water-resistant construction
- ISO 100 - 1600
- LCD 2.7" 230 000 dots
- better SR (better at 1-1.5 steps), equivalent to approximately 2.5 to 4 shutter-speed steps.
- Dynamic Range Enlargement
- Comprehensive Dust Removal system with prevention, removal and confirmation devices -
with NEW Dust Alert function
- Approximately 1100 images can be taken when using AA size lithium batteries due to its energy saving design, 700 - with NiMh AA 2500 mAh
- dust-proof, water-resistant battery grip
- RAW button
- real P-shift mode
- better in-built flash functions (guide number 13)
- In-body development of recorded RAW-format images
- better NEW 14 bit PRIME
- sensor is put in SR rails hardly
- Sv mode
- GREEN button (page 96 of manual)
- step of ISO 1/2 or 1/3
- Eight digital filters
- WHITE BALANCE TUNING
- better work with folders and files
- better jpeg tuning
- 6 types of IMAGE TONE (natural, bright, portrait, landscape, vibrant, monochrome)
- pixel mapping
- avtofocus EV from -1 to 18 at ISO100 with 50/1.4 (K100D from 1 to 19 at ISO200 with 50/1.4)
- weight 630 gramm vs 560 gramm (K100D) (without batteries)
- dimensions 133.5*95*74 mm vs 129.5*92.5*70 mm (K100D)
- buffer 4 RAW vs 3 RAW (K100D)
- unlimited jpeg at 1.1 fps
- exposure compensation 3 (2 у K100D)
- DNG format
- shutter sound is softer
- histograms for all channels



The main difference vs К10D

- less weight and smaller dimension
- buffer 4 RAW vs 9 RAW (K10D)
- no TAv, user mode, 1 e-dial
- LCD 2.7" 230 000 dots
- power 4хАА
- penta-mirror 96% field of view and an approximately 0.85-times magnification.
- better NEW 14 bit PRIME
- sensor is put in SR rails hardly
- better jpeg
- Dynamic Range Enlargement
- Eight digital filters
- adjustable RAW button
- 6 types of IMAGE TONE (natural, bright, portrait, landscape, vibrant, monochrome)
- pixel mapping
- guide number of buil-in flash 13 vs 11 (K10D)

03-26-2008, 03:16 AM   #20
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Good summary. Ogl. Actually, the K200D looks more than 90% alike as the K10D feature wise but I hope that it should contain most of the debugs for the bugs and problems that have been found and reported for the K10D.

However, I don't think the weather seal is a selling point for the K200D unless Pentax offer a weather sealed kit lens altogether as a kit, for those new DSLR starters. A SLR camera consists of a body *and* a lens, right? :-)

As for the K20D, it looks almost the same as the K10D except for the new Samsung sensor on paper, for what it is published that Pentax let us know. So, unless it is much much better *inside*, I'm afraid that the price-performance ratio of the K20D would be too low.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K200D is more than K100D. I've already ordered K200D.
K200D is not upgrade of K100D. It's strange downgrade of K10D with some from K20D.

The main difference vs K100D (K100D super)
- 10 MP APS-C sensor SONY
- Dust-proof, water-resistant construction
- ISO 100 - 1600
- LCD 2.7" 230 000 dots
- better SR (better at 1-1.5 steps), equivalent to approximately 2.5 to 4 shutter-speed steps.
- Dynamic Range Enlargement
- Comprehensive Dust Removal system with prevention, removal and confirmation devices -
with NEW Dust Alert function
- Approximately 1100 images can be taken when using AA size lithium batteries due to its energy saving design, 700 - with NiMh AA 2500 mAh
- dust-proof, water-resistant battery grip
- RAW button
- real P-shift mode
- better in-built flash functions (guide number 13)
- In-body development of recorded RAW-format images
- better NEW 14 bit PRIME
- sensor is put in SR rails hardly
- Sv mode
- GREEN button (page 96 of manual)
- step of ISO 1/2 or 1/3
- Eight digital filters
- WHITE BALANCE TUNING
- better work with folders and files
- better jpeg tuning
- 6 types of IMAGE TONE (natural, bright, portrait, landscape, vibrant, monochrome)
- pixel mapping
- avtofocus EV from -1 to 18 at ISO100 with 50/1.4 (K100D from 1 to 19 at ISO200 with 50/1.4)
- weight 630 gramm vs 560 gramm (K100D) (without batteries)
- dimensions 133.5*95*74 mm vs 129.5*92.5*70 mm (K100D)
- buffer 4 RAW vs 3 RAW (K100D)
- unlimited jpeg at 1.1 fps
- exposure compensation 3 (2 у K100D)
- DNG format
- shutter sound is softer
- histograms for all channels



The main difference vs К10D

- less weight and smaller dimension
- buffer 4 RAW vs 9 RAW (K10D)
- no TAv, user mode, 1 e-dial
- LCD 2.7" 230 000 dots
- power 4хАА
- penta-mirror 96% field of view and an approximately 0.85-times magnification.
- better NEW 14 bit PRIME
- sensor is put in SR rails hardly
- better jpeg
- Dynamic Range Enlargement
- Eight digital filters
- adjustable RAW button
- 6 types of IMAGE TONE (natural, bright, portrait, landscape, vibrant, monochrome)
- pixel mapping
- guide number of buil-in flash 13 vs 11 (K10D)
03-26-2008, 03:45 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
I'm continually amazed that people never seem to notice weatherproofing. All I can think is that most DSLR users must never shoot outdoors!

I went to a cattle station, inland Australia, over Easter, which was flooded. Went out in a flat bottom punt on a flooded swamp, with the K10D and DA* 16-50, and when it inevitably got splashed from the oars and weeds, I didn't care. Walking around the property in the rain, didn't care. If I had a Canon 5D (picking a camera COMPLETELY at random), I'd be either struggling with plastic bags, umbrellas and who knows what, or hiding inside until the rain stopped.

I'd rather be outside in the weather getting the shots I want with my "inferior" Pentax, than hiding inside taking photos of brick walls, test charts and my pets.
Spot on.

I am now wondering where exactly you went during the easter? The photographs would have to be amazing for sure
03-26-2008, 06:14 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Spot on.

I am now wondering where exactly you went during the easter? The photographs would have to be amazing for sure
Place called Minnamoolka station, few hours south of Mount Garnet, which is 4hrs from Cairns, Queensland. Which is in Australia. Its pretty much on the edge of nowhere, not quite in the middle of nowhere. Thousand square kilometres of swamp and bush.

Got some ok photos, not as many as I hoped, spent too much time socializing with damn relatives and not enough out taking photos, thats non-photographer priorities for you.

And Ricehigh, the mere fact that a body is sealed at a reasonable price point is a huge benefit. There's nothing in the C/N range that has weather sealing at a consumer price point. I'd rather water in my better sealed lens which can dry out, than shorting my electronics through the dozen open buttons, dials and hatches.

A weathersealed kit lens, or at least a mid-range lens would be a smart move though, not sure how cost effective it would be. Pentax could probably do well by playing up the "rugged" aspect of their cameras, since they are biased towards outdoor/landscape style shooting. Maybe Hoya will give their marketing department the kick in the pants it so sorely needs.
03-26-2008, 12:51 PM   #23
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See here for my maybe slightly biased review of the K200D, since I bought it and didn't just fondle it in the store:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/22916-k200d-review.html

I stand by it after nearly 400 pics so far. (and I've been working massive OT and haven't had much of a chance to "get out" with it...) The only thing I can say different is that I don't much like the way the B&W modes render. (somewhat posterized depending on the conditions, and I'm a control freak about such stuff so I like to take the color RAW file and develop it myself anyway) but to see what the composition will look like in B&W on screen is just fine.

His point on the AF is wrong, it is faster than my K110D, and I'm only using non-SDM lenses, but it is definitely improved some. How much I'll never know, I only reviewed based on practical applications, rather than a pure test environment.

I didn't comment on "shutter lag" or black out time in my review, but I certainly haven't noticed anything negative about it. *shrug*

I myself would probably put more weight on what someone said who has actually had the camera in their posession for more than 10 minutes.

03-26-2008, 01:47 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by khardur Quote
I only reviewed based on practical applications, rather than a pure test environment.
Shame on you! Go create some spreadsheets and photograph some newspaper!

It's funny because while I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, I've been on various bbs since the mid 90's, moderate others, etc. I too was taken aback when I first saw reactions to an RH post here, and thought to myself, "hmm, doesn't seem too out of line." But then I read more, checked out his blog, and more importantly, read between the lines. And while he might think he's doing the lord's work, tirelessly cranking our unbiased reviews for the unwashed masses, my take is that it is much more in the "axe to grind" category, with a healthy dose of attention whore mixed in. There are people who love to take the piss out of things just to get a rise out of people (or in part due to their own hubris), with the most effective being the ones that are well-spoken and write with an air of balance and legitimacy. But the reality is that both of those are in short supply. And why no Canon blog since that seems to be his camera of preference? One has to wonder...

I freely admit to my hubris and attention whoring. But I'd rather say "look at me" about my creative product than my spreadsheets and rather soporific and agenda-laden reviews. Not that some of my photos don't induce a yawn or two

no warranties implied or expressed, offer void where prohibited. ymmv.
03-26-2008, 02:20 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Shame on you! Go create some spreadsheets and photograph some newspaper!

It's funny because while I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, I've been on various bbs since the mid 90's, moderate others, etc. I too was taken aback when I first saw reactions to an RH post here, and thought to myself, "hmm, doesn't seem too out of line." But then I read more, checked out his blog, and more importantly, read between the lines. And while he might think he's doing the lord's work, tirelessly cranking our unbiased reviews for the unwashed masses, my take is that it is much more in the "axe to grind" category, with a healthy dose of attention whore mixed in. There are people who love to take the piss out of things just to get a rise out of people (or in part due to their own hubris), with the most effective being the ones that are well-spoken and write with an air of balance and legitimacy. But the reality is that both of those are in short supply. And why no Canon blog since that seems to be his camera of preference? One has to wonder...

I freely admit to my hubris and attention whoring. But I'd rather say "look at me" about my creative product than my spreadsheets and rather soporific and agenda-laden reviews. Not that some of my photos don't induce a yawn or two

no warranties implied or expressed, offer void where prohibited. ymmv.
Can I get another ''amen''
03-26-2008, 04:07 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Shame on you! Go create some spreadsheets and photograph some newspaper!

It's funny because while I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, I've been on various bbs since the mid 90's, moderate others, etc. I too was taken aback when I first saw reactions to an RH post here, and thought to myself, "hmm, doesn't seem too out of line." But then I read more, checked out his blog, and more importantly, read between the lines. And while he might think he's doing the lord's work, tirelessly cranking our unbiased reviews for the unwashed masses, my take is that it is much more in the "axe to grind" category, with a healthy dose of attention whore mixed in. There are people who love to take the piss out of things just to get a rise out of people (or in part due to their own hubris), with the most effective being the ones that are well-spoken and write with an air of balance and legitimacy. But the reality is that both of those are in short supply. And why no Canon blog since that seems to be his camera of preference? One has to wonder...

I freely admit to my hubris and attention whoring. But I'd rather say "look at me" about my creative product than my spreadsheets and rather soporific and agenda-laden reviews. Not that some of my photos don't induce a yawn or two

no warranties implied or expressed, offer void where prohibited. ymmv.
Very eloquently summarised, your powers of observation are obviously keenly focused.
03-26-2008, 04:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
Very eloquently summarised, your powers of observation are obviously keenly focused.
I'm running SAFOX VIII in "keen" mode. It is a super-secret hack...
03-26-2008, 05:15 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
However, I don't think the weather seal is a selling point for the K200D unless Pentax offer a weather sealed kit lens altogether as a kit, for those new DSLR starters. A SLR camera consists of a body *and* a lens, right? :-)
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Weather sealed bodies are typically higher end, and higher end bodies typically do not come with a kit lens (or, at least, their buyers are less likely to buy them with a kit lens). The K200D is, AFAIK, the only "consumer" level camera with weather sealing, so you can't compare on that point.

Decent review, now goodbye. Did you take any pictures with it?!
03-26-2008, 06:03 PM   #29
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Since there will be a k1000d or alike... I would like the k300d to be more like a d80 level camera... A pentaprism, dual control wheels, and the Samsung Sensor... They're too far away. Meanwhile I'll go abuse my k100d first.
03-26-2008, 08:05 PM   #30
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Blah blah blah... The K200D rocks.

Got anything of real importance RH?

BTW my avatar shows the exact face I make every time you post your "opinions".
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