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03-28-2008, 03:47 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Talk to an electrical engineer about the relative effects of moisture on a dslr body vs. lens.

To equate the importance of the two is disingenuous.
and for the non-electrical engineers here that means...??

03-28-2008, 03:51 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
and for the non-electrical engineers here that means...??
water + lens = not so good

water + body = really bad


really bad /= not so good

weather sealing body > weather sealing lens

If one tries to equate the two, they either don't understand the difference between the effects or they have an agenda.
03-28-2008, 04:08 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
water + lens = not so good

water + body = really bad


really bad /= not so good

weather sealing body > weather sealing lens

If one tries to equate the two, they either don't understand the difference between the effects or they have an agenda.
Thanks for the clarification, thats what my un-educated logic tells me should be the case.
Cheers
Grant
03-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Talk to an electrical engineer about the relative effects of moisture on a dslr body vs. lens.

To equate the importance of the two is disingenuous.
Then, the electrical engineer will tell you that there are also electronics and ICs inside the lens!

Well, one can then tell he uses only plain old purely mechanical K-mount lenses only on those sealed Pentax bodies and those lenses can be used more "causally" also - but I'm afraid that should not be a relevant and valid point.

03-28-2008, 07:31 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Then, the electrical engineer will tell you that there are also electronics and ICs inside the lens!

Well, one can then tell he uses only plain old purely mechanical K-mount lenses only on those sealed Pentax bodies and those lenses can be used more "causally" also - but I'm afraid that should not be a relevant and valid point.
What is not relevant or valid about it?
03-28-2008, 08:31 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Then, the electrical engineer will tell you that there are also electronics and ICs inside the lens!

Well, one can then tell he uses only plain old purely mechanical K-mount lenses only on those sealed Pentax bodies and those lenses can be used more "causally" also - but I'm afraid that should not be a relevant and valid point.

Of course there are electronics in the lens. But far less complex or potentially exposed. So if you're talking about probability of problems due to moisture, the body is the major failure point.

Only irrelevant if you have an agenda and are trying to support specious reasoning.
03-28-2008, 08:57 PM   #67
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So, RiceHigh, in your blog you link to and seem to agree with another users report that the auto focus if the K20D is indeed improved over the K10D. In fact you are critical of pentax for not claiming that it is improved. Now in this thread you claim both that the K200D auto focus is no better than the K100 and that the K200 and K20 are essentially the same except for the pixel count and live-view. So I am confused. Is the K200 more like the K100 which was worse than the K10 which was worse than the K20? Or is the K200 more like the K20? Maybe you can clear this up, thanks
03-28-2008, 09:08 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by wasupdoc Quote
So, RiceHigh, in your blog you link to and seem to agree with another users report that the auto focus if the K20D is indeed improved over the K10D. In fact you are critical of pentax for not claiming that it is improved. Now in this thread you claim both that the K200D auto focus is no better than the K100 and that the K200 and K20 are essentially the same except for the pixel count and live-view. So I am confused. Is the K200 more like the K100 which was worse than the K10 which was worse than the K20? Or is the K200 more like the K20? Maybe you can clear this up, thanks
Do you really want to bother to read what he writes, knowing (as far as anyone can tell) that he hasn't taken a "real" photo with the K200d? Or as far as I can tell the K20d and maybe not even the K10d.

I owned the K10d and now the K20d. My seat of the pants say the AF is more accurate and a tad quicker in the K20d but I wouldn't stake my life on it. I do know that the AWB is more accurate, and the IQ is greater while noise is down.

I have yet to hold a K200d so I wouldn't try to tell you how that performs. And even if I played with it in the store, I'd be loathe to give you a serious "review." To me the camera is a tool, and until I use it to actually produce something, I can't tell you how well it works. Numbers don't mean much, nor do test photos.

If you want to read some decent reviews, Luminous Landscape is pretty good, but my favorite is Sean Reid (www.reidreviews.com). You have to pay to read them, but they are well worth the money. Unlike some of the other stuff out there that isn't worth free...

Obligatory photo (not newspaper). K20d, 16-45 zoom at 16mm, f4, 1/6 sec, handheld while driving. Program mode, iso 1600, AWB. Only pp was upping exposure a bit and some definition (unsharp mask).



03-28-2008, 09:53 PM   #69
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Answers to your questions

QuoteOriginally posted by wasupdoc Quote
So, RiceHigh, in your blog you link to and seem to agree with another users report that the auto focus if the K20D is indeed improved over the K10D. In fact you are critical of pentax for not claiming that it is improved. Now in this thread you claim both that the K200D auto focus is no better than the K100 and that the K200 and K20 are essentially the same except for the pixel count and live-view. So I am confused. Is the K200 more like the K100 which was worse than the K10 which was worse than the K20? Or is the K200 more like the K20? Maybe you can clear this up, thanks
So far for what new users have reported and shown us with evidences that:-

1. K20D's AF is more accurate, no significant BF/FF with different Pentax AF primes anymore when wide opened as the K10D did;

2. There is NO increase in AF speed for static objects, no matter the user uses AF-S or AF-C mode;

3. Other users reported that AF hunting at low light still occur - no big difference here;

4. Continuous AF is now more intelligent and is able to track *moving* objects faster and with a higher successful rate.

I have summarised those user reports in different articles in my blog. For those who are interested, you can read in details for what the users have shared and my views on what they shown. Afterall, AF speed and accuracy are two different aspects for the AF system's performance. But then, these two again should be considered for the AF-S and AF-C mode, or also under bright light or low light, and also if the object is moving or not.

So, I hope the above could clear the confusion you had. :-)
03-28-2008, 10:04 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
What is not relevant or valid about it?
Modern Pentax DSLRs are not designed to use ancient mechanical K-mount or M42 lenses for the complete functionality and optimal performance. Even we do have some of these very old Pentax glass (which are usually very good to excellent), why let them take a bath - they are not supposed can take such abuse afterall.
03-28-2008, 11:28 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Modern Pentax DSLRs are not designed to use ancient mechanical K-mount or M42 lenses for the complete functionality and optimal performance. Even we do have some of these very old Pentax glass (which are usually very good to excellent), why let them take a bath - they are not supposed can take such abuse afterall.
Sorry Michael, you miss the point entirely.

I would much prefer to have a weather sealed body with a (new or old) kit lens on it in dodgy weather conditions....than a body without weather sealing. The fact that I can buy one for $850 aud makes it exceptional value in anyones language.

It is just common sense.
03-28-2008, 11:48 PM   #72
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I agree with Ricehigh that there needs to be some entry level lenses that have weather sealing from Pentax. That would be a great marketing angle for their camera series, weatherproof, high pixel count for landscapes and so on, and play down the slower AF angle.

But you can't seriously think lens and body are equal in their resistance to water and dust ingress. There are dozens of points of entry on a body, all with electronic switches directly under them, or directly into cards, lcds and so on. And all designed for direct finger pressing!
03-29-2008, 12:56 PM   #73
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anyone have anything to say about the k200d ?
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