Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-03-2013, 04:58 AM   #16
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Flyover America
Posts: 4,475
QuoteOriginally posted by Arjay Bee Quote
There is some notion that there is a way of seeing that develops by being forced to use a particular tool. Visit the Online Photographer linked above and the attached comments or even just try using one lens for a month or longer and see what the format does to your thinking before taking a shot.
Ok read the entire thing twice - carefully.

For simplicity's sake one of the comments came close to my own thoughts so I quote:

"My sense is that our mysterious inner eye has its own tastes for combinations of tonality, texture, composition, color, light, and shadow. Some compositions don't "feel right" in color or in wide angle. Some don't feel right in tight black and white. I'm getting to the point where I switch back and forth between color and monochrome as much as I hit my +/- exposure comp button (my Sony RX100 II will shoot a RAW and mono jpeg at the same time, so I'm a happy camper)."

My own rough sense of "thinking BW" is where color may be just a distraction or an out right negative to the final imagine and/or where the subject matter more or less stands on form alone and all you want to say about it can be expressed in the language of tonality. Also BW can have a level of abstractness for art photogaphy that you can never achieve in color.

Can't think of a better pure BW photographer in the above sense than Edward Weston:


Last edited by wildman; 09-16-2013 at 04:08 AM.
09-03-2013, 12:44 PM   #17
Veteran Member
Kobayashi.K's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 324
Because I never used in-camera black and white before (Custom Image, BW), I did some research on PF and elsewhere notably what the advantages and disadvantages are compared to post-processing (PP).

Almost all articles are saying that saving your photo's in color and then converting them to BW in PP is much better because you are more flexible and you cannot magically convert BW back into color.

An obvious fact, however, is often left out of consideration. If you are saving as RAW+, that is a RAW file and a JPEG file, the RAW file still contains all the information to make a color version. And the RAW file is used as source for your photo anyway, if you are working in color. So, the only difference is that your JPEG is BW.

In addition to that, the JPEG can still be edited in PP in a large number of ways, with brightness, contrast, channel mixer (for changing the ratio between the RGB channels), toning etc. You are not limited to the BW image that is produced by the camera.

So, if you are determined to shoot your photo's in BW you can do that with in-camera black and white without large compromises. Directly shooting in BW adds an extra dimension because it influences your way of thinking. A nice bonus is also that the Live View image is shown in black and white.

This is only one aspect of in-camera black and white versus PP, and there are probably other important issues, but I leave that to other posters who know more than me.
09-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #18
Pentaxian
Arjay Bee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bamaga, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,023
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Kobayashi.K Quote
So, if you are determined to shoot your photo's in BW you can do that with in-camera black and white without large compromises. Directly shooting in BW adds an extra dimension because it influences your way of thinking. A nice bonus is also that the Live View image is shown in black and white.
This is the thinking I had as well. However the addition of the physical yellow filter makes the raw file quite strongly hued in the yellow channel. This means that there is still some level of 'dedicatedness' to the B&W ethic. I would rather not have this mental out that says oh well if it looks like garbage in B&W I will still have the colour version or vice versa. I want to aquire the mental dicscipline of thinking in B&W when using the K20 as a natural process.

Apparently Peter Tunley uses a dedicated monochrome Leica all the time. I like his images and I would like to develop a small part of his vision without the colour safety net.
09-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
Veteran Member
Julie's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,067
My K-01 acts as my B&W "film" camera (usually doesn't go out of B&W mode unless I'm taking product photos and need color).
I don't like shooting in color and then going back and processing it to B&W. My keeper rate seems to be higher when just shooting with the B&W preset (versus PP/RAW) and forgetting that my camera can shoot color.

It gives it a totally different feel, especially when using manual lenses. (speaking of that, got a new-to-me Tamron adaptall 28 2.5 that I have to try out...)
No need for the Leica Monochrome.


Oh and nice works, Arjay, Kobayashi, and Wildman!

09-03-2013, 03:31 PM   #20
Veteran Member
Julie's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,067
QuoteOriginally posted by Kobayashi.K Quote
@fuent104 - I would like to post more samples but my camera's are K-50 and K-5, and this thread is for repurposing old ones.

@p38arover - Can't find filters or Monochrome in the *istD manual either. It indeed seems you have the 'wrong' camera for BW.
I had an istD and remember doing research to see if I could find the B&W preset, but it doesn't have one. I think the next newer model up (ist DS or DS2) was the model where the preset first showed up.
09-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #21
Site Supporter
p38arover's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Western Sydney, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,078
Thanks Julie.

Well, I could set the K-7 up for monochrome with my Takumar lenses as it doesn't get that much use since I bought the K-5. (My daughter has the K100D).
09-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #22
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Flyover America
Posts: 4,475
QuoteOriginally posted by Julie Quote
I don't like shooting in color and then going back and processing it to B&W.
One thing I think we can pretty much all agree on - BW is not some poor stepchild of color. It exists in it's own right for it's own purposes and will always have a place in the art of photography.

The only question that remains is how to best go about working in BW within a technology, digital, which is innately a full color medium.
09-04-2013, 02:33 AM   #23
Pentaxian
Arjay Bee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bamaga, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,023
Original Poster
A sample as requested:



This was from the jpg resized for web but exposure left untouched.

S-M-C Takumar 28mm 3.5 @ F 3.5 ISO 200 1/30s Pentax Y1 Filter

09-04-2013, 02:52 AM   #24
Pentaxian
Arjay Bee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bamaga, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,023
Original Poster
The beast herself wearing the lens used for the above image of my study desk:



Mentioned earlier was the quirky stop down metering - I have used the Takumars on this body and its predecessor the *istDL2 since 2006. I am now using the green button to meter for both K mount and M42 lenses.
09-04-2013, 05:40 AM - 2 Likes   #25
Veteran Member
Kobayashi.K's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 324
To see if BW support is consistent with the newer camera's I searched in the PDF manuals with keywords 'Custom Image', 'Monochrome' and 'black and white'.

These camera's can directly shoot in BW (Custom Image = BW):

Jun 2013 | K-50
Jun 2013 | K-500
Jun 2013 | Q-7
Apr 2013 | Ricoh GR
Jan 2013 | WG-3
Jan 2013 | WG-10
Jan 2013 | MX-1
Sep 2012 | K-5 IIs
Sep 2012 | K-5 II
Sep 2012 | Q-10
Aug 2012 | X-5
May 2012 | K-30
Feb 2012 | K-01
Feb 2012 | Optio WG-2
Jun 2011 | Q
Feb 2011 | Optio WG-1
Sep 2010 | K-5
Sep 2010 | K-r
Feb 2010 | X-90
Sep 2009 | K-x
May 2009 | K-7
Mar 2009 | X-70
Sep 2008 | K-m (K2000 for US)
Jan 2008 | K20D
Jan 2008 | K200D

It seems the following camera's can only convert the image to BW after it is taken (with Processing):

Jun 2007 | K100D
Jun 2007 | K100D Super
Jan 2006 | *ist DL2
Sep 2006 | K10D
Jun 2005 | *ist DL
Aug 2005 | *ist DS2
Aug 2004 | *ist DS

The *ist D has nothing for BW, not even processing:
Feb 2003 | *ist D

For more camera manuals see:
Operation Manuals Download : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING

The GR is a special case because relatively many people are shooting black and white with it. It has three different BW filters: BW, BW(T) and BW(Hi). See also the following review:
The F-Stops Here - Ricoh GR - Return of the Legend
09-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #26
Veteran Member
Kobayashi.K's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 324
Experiment - Paper bag.
K-50 + FA43 Ltd. + Custom Image = BW.

Can't resist posting another one.





Camera: K-50 + FA43 Ltd.,
F11, ISO = 100.
White balance = Tungsten.
Custom Image = BW (Monochrome), Filter Effects = None (0).
Original image: JPEG 4928x3264 px
No post processing, crop = 3200x3200 px
Published here: Resized to 700x700 px + border.

This one has no filter effects and no PP, it's the plain image out of the camera. I have a tendency adding much contrast but after reading https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-technique/231156-b-w-dynamic-range.html I try to restrain myself and the result looks more natural.
09-04-2013, 10:15 AM - 1 Like   #27
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Flyover America
Posts: 4,475
QuoteOriginally posted by Kobayashi.K Quote
Can't resist posting another one.
Oh what the hell why not?
Note the two sleeping cats was taken with a Canon S95 PS all converted from full color RAW files.

Last edited by wildman; 09-30-2013 at 04:13 AM.
09-04-2013, 10:30 AM   #28
Loyal Site Supporter
paulh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DFW Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,459
QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Oh what the hell why not?
Note the two sleeping cats was taken with a Canon S95 PS all converted from full color RAW files.
very nice images!
09-04-2013, 10:54 AM   #29
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,354
I think you well have an easy time developing an eye for black and white, with some practice. Your sample its very nice. I would encourage you to use filters of other colors, as well a polarizer, and to explore the digital darkroom, as the analogue one is where a lot of the masters really honed their craft.
09-04-2013, 01:28 PM   #30
Veteran Member
Kobayashi.K's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 324
QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I think you well have an easy time developing an eye for black and white, with some practice. Your sample its very nice. I would encourage you to use filters of other colors, as well a polarizer, and to explore the digital darkroom, as the analogue one is where a lot of the masters really honed their craft.
Please can you tell us who you are addressing?
Like your Death Valley photo's.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
auto, camera, cameras, color, dslr, filter, focus, format, images, k20, mode, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not a new lens, but almost as sweet... Edgar_in_Indy General Talk 19 10-15-2012 11:05 PM
theory: a ff camera is coming, but not as a dslr zosxavius Photographic Industry and Professionals 28 07-16-2012 03:11 PM
Macro First serious attempts (but not as good as Rense shots)! Iris Post Your Photos! 18 05-08-2010 10:14 AM
Question about Raynox options but not as a macro... brecklundin Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 01-31-2010 12:15 AM
Look the same, but they're not. Tom Lusk Post Your Photos! 9 12-13-2007 04:00 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:53 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top