Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-09-2013, 01:28 AM   #1
Forum Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 62
Bounce flash over exposure issues solved in latest firmwares?

Hi.
I´m curious if anyone tested if the bounce flash over exposure issues have been solved in the latest firmware updates?
I can´t check myself since i returned both my K-5 & K-30 because of this.

Regards,
Lage

10-09-2013, 01:35 AM   #2
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 49,707
QuoteOriginally posted by Lage Quote
Hi.
I´m curious if anyone tested if the bounce flash over exposure issues have been solved in the latest firmware updates?
I can´t check myself since i returned both my K-5 & K-30 because of this.

Regards,
Lage
AFAIK they have not been fixed due to some hardware limitation. No idea about the K-3 though!

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-09-2013, 01:55 AM   #3
Forum Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 62
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
AFAIK they have not been fixed due to some hardware limitation. No idea about the K-3 though!
I´m keeping my fingers crossed that it´s been solved in the K-3.
But i´ve never heard about some hardvare limitations before. Do yoy have any further info about that?
10-09-2013, 01:57 AM   #4
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 49,707
QuoteOriginally posted by Lage Quote
I´m keeping my fingers crossed that it´s been solved in the K-3.
But i´ve never heard about some hardvare limitations before. Do yoy have any further info about that?
No, but I know someone who does. Remind me about this thread in a week and I might have an answer then.


Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-09-2013, 03:25 AM   #5
Forum Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 62
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
No, but I know someone who does. Remind me about this thread in a week and I might have an answer then.
Will do.
Thanks Adam.
10-09-2013, 08:12 AM   #6
Veteran Member
maxfield_photo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,214
If you have a flash that has a built in light meter like the AF360, AF540, the Metz 58, or just about any of the Nikon flashes (I think), you could use "A" mode rather than pTTL. Since the flash itself judges the exposure in real time rather than the camera judging by the preflash, it's less prone to exposure error, and the flash doesn't care whether the light is being bounced or not. Or there's always my mode of choice, good old "M"anual.
10-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #7
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 733
The bounce flash exposure issue is purely a software thing. When the flash head is moved fro the straight ahead it signals this to the camera. The camera then uses that information to screw up the exposure. You can check this for yourself very easily - just keep the flash in the straight ahead position and place a mirror at 45 degree in front of the flash so the light goes upwards in exactly the same way but the camera does not 'know' that you are bouncing the light. The exposure comes out just right, or at any rate as good as it does on non-bounce situations, provided of course that the flash is powerful enough for the situation.

I have actually considered opening up my Metz flash to disable the microswitch that signals the bounce position of the head, but I decided it was not important enough (to me) to risk breaking something.

There is probably some good reason why the camera is 'informed' that the flash is in bounce orientation, but whatever it is it's just screwing things up and until they sort that out they should just patch the firmware to ignore the signal and use the same algorithm regardless of the orientation of the flash head.

One thing that puzzles me is that over exposure is being mentioned but I get severe under exposure with bounce. WIth the mirror trick I get near perfect exposure in the same situation.
10-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 733
QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
If you have a flash that has a built in light meter like the AF360, AF540, the Metz 58, or just about any of the Nikon flashes (I think), you could use "A" mode rather than pTTL. Since the flash itself judges the exposure in real time rather than the camera judging by the preflash, it's less prone to exposure error, and the flash doesn't care whether the light is being bounced or not. Or there's always my mode of choice, good old "M"anual.
The built in exposure meter works well in some situations, the 'easy' ones. It is almost useless with focal lengths greater than about 35mm unless you are lucky and also any situation where using 'average' exposure meter mode in daylight wouldn't work. It also won;t work with the flash being off camera, unless it is very close to the camera.

When using P-TTL you can choose the metering mode (average, centre weighted, matrix..) and more importantly you are only metering what you see in the viewfinder.

The exposure meter built into the flash has a fixed field of view, which does not even change with the zoom of the flash head. The result is that even having something light close to you will cause the flash to under expose even if you are not seeing that something in the viewfinder. I suppose they could in theory make the sensor change its field of view according to the focal length but as far as I can tell nobody actually bothers with that.

10-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #9
Forum Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 62
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
No, but I know someone who does. Remind me about this thread in a week and I might have an answer then.
Adam, any news?
10-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,519
Here's what a front page post had to say about it, on Saturday:

QuoteQuote:
Q: Has the bounce flash overexposure issue that plagued the K-7 and K-5 been fixed in the K-3?

A: Since the K-3 features a new metering system, Pentax is not aware of any overexposure problems with P-TTL flash and the K-3. We believe this issue was originally caused by a hardware problem.
This is supposedly straight from Pentax Japan.

So ... this answer suggests there SHOULDN'T be any problem.

But then again, they never really owned up to the problem before, so it could be just as bad now, with an equal quantity of corporate denial sprinkled on top.

My advice: wait and see, regardless of what Pentax says.
10-17-2013, 06:36 PM   #11
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 49,707
QuoteOriginally posted by Lage Quote
Adam, any news?
As posted on the homepage, Pentax was very conservative with their response. What they said does imply that the problem has been fixed, however. They were aware of the old bounce flash issue and said it wasn't fixable via firmware due to some hardware limitation in the K-7/K-5's metering system.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #12
Veteran Member
ScooterMaxi Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,519
QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
The built in exposure meter works well in some situations, the 'easy' ones. It is almost useless with focal lengths greater than about 35mm unless you are lucky and also any situation where using 'average' exposure meter mode in daylight wouldn't work. It also won;t work with the flash being off camera, unless it is very close to the camera.

When using P-TTL you can choose the metering mode (average, centre weighted, matrix..) and more importantly you are only metering what you see in the viewfinder.

The exposure meter built into the flash has a fixed field of view, which does not even change with the zoom of the flash head. The result is that even having something light close to you will cause the flash to under expose even if you are not seeing that something in the viewfinder. I suppose they could in theory make the sensor change its field of view according to the focal length but as far as I can tell nobody actually bothers with that.
In my experience, auto flash is superior in exposure accuracy overall compared to pTTL in pretty much all situations other than macro photography. It isn't perfect, but the averaging works well enough and is far more predictable than pTTL or even the older, better TTL flash system used in film cameras and early dSLRs. Even wedding photographers who use Canon (a better preflash TTL system) are known to use auto flash (they have an active website dedicated to the alternative). The wedding photographers find that the combo of black (groom) and white (bride) makes it difficult to predict what the flash will do left to the camera to decide; and then there is the blinky problem with groups. Auto was the standard in the days of film - and you couldn't even check exposure until the roll was developed.

Bounce or off camera will work well if the relative distance of flash and camera remain about the same and the flash sensor is aimed in the direction of scene photographed. Portrait lenses work fine with auto flash - I get good exposure with portraits about 98% of the time, as compared to about 75% when shooting pTTL (any number of issues can be attributed to the low success rate).
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
bounce, bounce flash, camera, dslr, exposure, flash, issues, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax K-5 bounce flash over-exposure database davidsladek Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 3 06-21-2011 02:08 AM
K-5 bounce flash over exposure with response from Metz efkelly Pentax K-5 24 03-15-2011 08:52 PM
Has the exposure problem with flash been solved? Naim Khan Pentax K-5 35 02-05-2011 07:04 PM
Latest Firmwares (Versions & MD5) for Pentax Cameras dlacouture Pentax DSLR Discussion 39 01-17-2011 05:04 PM
Sigma EF-500 DG ST Flash & K10D - Bounce Exposure Issues stewart_photo Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 6 05-07-2007 01:25 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:20 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top