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03-29-2008, 10:20 AM   #1
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Anyone who switched to K20D from Canon's Line?

I was just curious if there is anyone who owns a K20D after owning Canon 20D or 30D or 40D.

It's time for me to update my older Canon 20D and I need a few new lenses at the same time. It's expensive enough of a proposition to honestly look at what else is out there.

In the film days, my camera of choice was the Mamiya RB67 for work, and I bought a Pentax MX and LX for 35mm needs about 25 and 28 years ago. I was always impressed with my Pentax camera and the few primes I had. I remember a nice 50 f/1.2 and a 100 f/2.8.

So about 5 years ago when I got into Digital, I checked out Pentax first and was disappointed there weren't any decent offerings, and then again a couple years ago, but by that time I has deep into Canon, with a couple bodies, a couple of L lenses (24-105 and 70-200 f/2.8)

But I was wondering now about the K20D (mainly because of the CMOS, not higher res) And getting a couple nice limited edition primes and maybe a couple older favorite manual focus primes.

It's been a long time since my pro days, it would be real nice just to buy the lens I want, have a good amount of glass in it, without the extra expense of Canon IS (not to mention bulk and heft) have some good old fashioned style manual focus lenses.

Will I be disappointed in the sensor or it's processing abilities compared to the Canon, and are the Canon L series lenses really that much better in the digital realm???

Thank you! (In advance in case anyone feels in the mood to reply)

03-29-2008, 11:26 AM   #2
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Well you got alot of fine old lenses, but there are also the new DA* (star meaning L in Pentax world). Also there is the very fine Zeiss lenses.

I use the Sigma 18-50 zoom for everyday walking around shooting and its very nice for its price I believe.
03-29-2008, 12:45 PM   #3
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The CMOS sensor by itself doesn't make better pictures than CCD. It's just a different technology. But the K20D is a great camera. I've had mine for 2 weeks only, and the enlargements I can get are outstanding. I work in a printing shop where we have a 44 inches printer, and upscaling to make prints around 40 inches gave pretty decent results (I didn't do the computer work myself,since we have 2 guys doing that at the shop. I just use their services and knowledge). Very good camera, indeed.
03-29-2008, 01:36 PM   #4
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thank you for the replies

Thank you Zewrak, I will check out the * lenses on that part of the board.

And thank you Flyer, (I work in prepress at a printshop) so I've made numerous large prints of my canon shots, but required a lot of work to get nice ones at about half that size and now eager to see how the K20D compares at such a size, also to see which lenses hold up best. My wife's visiting her family in Laval and Outremont today (not too far away I remember) which is why I have time for such endeavors in the first place.

03-30-2008, 04:10 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
Thank you Zewrak, I will check out the * lenses on that part of the board.

And thank you Flyer, (I work in prepress at a printshop) so I've made numerous large prints of my canon shots, but required a lot of work to get nice ones at about half that size and now eager to see how the K20D compares at such a size, also to see which lenses hold up best. My wife's visiting her family in Laval and Outremont today (not too far away I remember) which is why I have time for such endeavors in the first place.
I,d like to know what part of Laval she is visiting, since I grew up in Laval myself.
03-30-2008, 06:31 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
I was just curious if there is anyone who owns a K20D after owning Canon 20D or 30D or 40D.

It's time for me to update my older Canon 20D and I need a few new lenses at the same time. It's expensive enough of a proposition to honestly look at what else is out there.

In the film days, my camera of choice was the Mamiya RB67 for work, and I bought a Pentax MX and LX for 35mm needs about 25 and 28 years ago. I was always impressed with my Pentax camera and the few primes I had. I remember a nice 50 f/1.2 and a 100 f/2.8.

So about 5 years ago when I got into Digital, I checked out Pentax first and was disappointed there weren't any decent offerings, and then again a couple years ago, but by that time I has deep into Canon, with a couple bodies, a couple of L lenses (24-105 and 70-200 f/2.8)

But I was wondering now about the K20D (mainly because of the CMOS, not higher res) And getting a couple nice limited edition primes and maybe a couple older favorite manual focus primes.

Well I just ordered a K20D, and have a 20D.I'm taking a blind leap here
It's been a long time since my pro days, it would be real nice just to buy the lens I want, have a good amount of glass in it, without the extra expense of Canon IS (not to mention bulk and heft) have some good old fashioned style manual focus lenses.

Will I be disappointed in the sensor or it's processing abilities compared to the Canon, and are the Canon L series lenses really that much better in the digital realm???

Thank you! (In advance in case anyone feels in the mood to reply)
Well I have a 20D with grip, 70-200 f/4L, EF 100 f/2.8 macro, and EF 50 f/1.8 II.Its all on ebayy now as I just ordered a K20D and grip and already have a few Pentax lenses.I'm really hoping I didn't make a mistake.The main reason I'm doing this is after about 11x14 prints the 20D prints start to fall apart.I'm hoping the extra resolution of the K20D will allow for bigger prints.Plus all the old lens possibilities are exciting.I'll keep you posted.

C
03-30-2008, 06:53 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by cloudswimmer Quote
Well I have a 20D with grip, 70-200 f/4L, EF 100 f/2.8 macro, and EF 50 f/1.8 II.Its all on ebayy now as I just ordered a K20D and grip and already have a few Pentax lenses.I'm really hoping I didn't make a mistake.The main reason I'm doing this is after about 11x14 prints the 20D prints start to fall apart.I'm hoping the extra resolution of the K20D will allow for bigger prints.Plus all the old lens possibilities are exciting.I'll keep you posted.

C
Well... digital camera resolution these days is *almost always* limited by the lens, rather than the sensor. That being said, if you get top-notch lenses, you might see a difference
03-30-2008, 07:15 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by cloudswimmer Quote
Well I have a 20D with grip, 70-200 f/4L, EF 100 f/2.8 macro, and EF 50 f/1.8 II.Its all on ebayy now as I just ordered a K20D and grip and already have a few Pentax lenses.I'm really hoping I didn't make a mistake.The main reason I'm doing this is after about 11x14 prints the 20D prints start to fall apart.I'm hoping the extra resolution of the K20D will allow for bigger prints.Plus all the old lens possibilities are exciting.I'll keep you posted.

C
Well cloudswimmer, I just finished doing the same thing (only not on ebay). I sold my 20D and my 2 Image-Stabilized L Series zooms (24-105 and 70-200 f/2.8) It was time to upgrade the body before it wasn't worth as much, and I wanted to get back into using primes most of the time instead of zooms. (I used to enjoy selecting the correct lens and picking the best spot and setting up a shot, the last few years with a DSLR, it's like I've been on a Disneyland ride or maybe I was in a hurry) The Canon L-Series primes are large heavy and expensive. I was remembering the days of having nice prime lenses that were metal with great glass, that were also fast and small. In fact they were Pentax M Lenses and I liked them so much that I kept them for 25 years and never sold them.

So I decided to take a leap and give this system a try. (my older manual lenses would be used indoors under studio lighting for portrait and headshots) except that I might take my 50 f/1.4 outdoors and see how it goes focusing manually and setting the exposure, I actually used to do just that a long time ago, I'll see if I'm capable of doing it now and how easy it is or isn't with a digital sensor.

But at any rate, I'm planning on buying a couple newer primes (like the 40/43 and 70/77 and a macro, probably the 100) and a walk-around / knock around zoom I won't be afraid to take to the beach. The K20D Body looks like I won't need to be as afraid of its fragility, so that's another thing besides resolution I'm looking to see an immediate benefit.

Just need to decide on a decent zoom.

I appreciate your offer of keeping me posted, I'll do the same

03-30-2008, 08:50 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by moxfyre Quote
Well... digital camera resolution these days is *almost always* limited by the lens, rather than the sensor. That being said, if you get top-notch lenses, you might see a difference
Well I'm mainly a large format film shooter.Resolution is like night and day between my 4x5 and 8x10 negs in large landscape prints.I'm still coming to grips with the whole digital thing.Like I said after 11x14 or more like 8x10 prints the images just fall apart.I'm hoping for 16x20's to compete with my 4990 scanned 4x5's.I know it won't be any competition for the tango scans, but those add up quick dollar wise.My favorite LF lenses are 150mm Nikkor-W on the Shen-Hao 4x5, and 300mm Rodenstock Apo Sironar-N on the C-1 8x10.This is pretty much in the normal range for these formats.So whats the best glass you can get in this range for a K20D?So far I'm aware of the 43mm FA, 50mm Zeiss ZK, 40mm Voigtländer Ultron, and 40mm DA.Are there any others I should look at?

Chris
03-30-2008, 09:05 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
Well cloudswimmer, I just finished doing the same thing (only not on ebay). I sold my 20D and my 2 Image-Stabilized L Series zooms (24-105 and 70-200 f/2.8) It was time to upgrade the body before it wasn't worth as much, and I wanted to get back into using primes most of the time instead of zooms. (I used to enjoy selecting the correct lens and picking the best spot and setting up a shot, the last few years with a DSLR, it's like I've been on a Disneyland ride or maybe I was in a hurry) The Canon L-Series primes are large heavy and expensive. I was remembering the days of having nice prime lenses that were metal with great glass, that were also fast and small. In fact they were Pentax M Lenses and I liked them so much that I kept them for 25 years and never sold them.

So I decided to take a leap and give this system a try. (my older manual lenses would be used indoors under studio lighting for portrait and headshots) except that I might take my 50 f/1.4 outdoors and see how it goes focusing manually and setting the exposure, I actually used to do just that a long time ago, I'll see if I'm capable of doing it now and how easy it is or isn't with a digital sensor.

But at any rate, I'm planning on buying a couple newer primes (like the 40/43 and 70/77 and a macro, probably the 100) and a walk-around / knock around zoom I won't be afraid to take to the beach. The K20D Body looks like I won't need to be as afraid of its fragility, so that's another thing besides resolution I'm looking to see an immediate benefit.

Just need to decide on a decent zoom.

I appreciate your offer of keeping me posted, I'll do the same
Ahh slow contemplative style, I love it!Do you also shoot large format?Sounds like we are in the same boat so to speak.One thing I'm looking forward to is using the new pentax on my nodal ninja pano head since the camera is so small and light.I did this one, 9 frames stitched together, on just a regular 3047 head with the 20D and 100 macro.

03-30-2008, 10:40 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by cloudswimmer Quote
Ahh slow contemplative style, I love it!Do you also shoot large format?Sounds like we are in the same boat so to speak.One thing I'm looking forward to is using the new pentax on my nodal ninja pano head since the camera is so small and light.I did this one, 9 frames stitched together, on just a regular 3047 head with the 20D and 100 macro.

Yes, I used to shoot for high-end retail catalog and ad placement. So I shot product shots with Sinar LF, in 4x5 transparency whenever I could get away with it, but generally for ads in external magazine placement or shots they knew were going 3/4 or full page, the art directors usually insisted on 8x10 transparencies. (that was the resolution war back then, the companies I worked for wouldn't consider anything shot on 35mm or even 645 for ad work) Then with live action and model shots, I used Mamiya RB67 medium format and sometimes Pentax 645 (this small of a transparency was acceptable because of the greater importance of getting a good sequence of shots) again all with slide film. I do miss bellows focusing by the way. Then I carried my Pentax 35mm with me on my free time to do more fun and spontaneous shots.

Each of these cameras required a different workflow and a good amount of thought and effort to get a great shot. It was easy to get the shot I wanted, because I picked out the right camera for the job, and then that particular camera dictated exactly how I was to work with it. Not the same for digital. But I've been lazy and that's my lesson.

The main lesson I am trying to re-teach myself with digital, is to take the same tool (the DSLR) and treat it differently for different situations. So there are times it will be ok to slap a zoom on it and pop up the flash and fire away, and times I will want to put a manual focus lens on it, and set up a shot as carefully as I had to with an 8x10 with a narrow-latitude expensive sheet of film. It was trickier to get the entire scene exposed correctly on a 25, 50 or 100 ASA chrome than on my digital sensor.

That's where I think the K20D might serve as a more flexible tool than my canons, I just need to pick out the correct lenses for what I want to do.

That's a very nice shot, I'm going to have to give that a try (composing and stitching together multiple images) I'm sure it would be good getting-to-know-you practice with the new camera!
03-31-2008, 01:56 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by cloudswimmer Quote
Well I have a 20D with grip, 70-200 f/4L, EF 100 f/2.8 macro, and EF 50 f/1.8 II.Its all on ebayy now as I just ordered a K20D and grip and already have a few Pentax lenses.I'm really hoping I didn't make a mistake.The main reason I'm doing this is after about 11x14 prints the 20D prints start to fall apart.I'm hoping the extra resolution of the K20D will allow for bigger prints.Plus all the old lens possibilities are exciting.I'll keep you posted.

C
When I was with Canon I owned the Canon 20D, Canon 1D Mkll and the Canon 350D and used the Canon 1Ds Mkll which they lent to me when needed. NO, you did not make a mistake. It will take a bit of time to adjust your visual paradigm to colour differences, ergonomics and orientation differences. Once you have done so, you should be pleased with your choice.

Ben
03-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
When I was with Canon I owned the Canon 20D, Canon 1D Mkll and the Canon 350D and used the Canon 1Ds Mkll which they lent to me when needed. NO, you did not make a mistake. It will take a bit of time to adjust your visual paradigm to colour differences, ergonomics and orientation differences. Once you have done so, you should be pleased with your choice.

Ben
Thanks for the encouragement Ben
04-06-2008, 03:39 PM   #14
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Cloudswimmer, just curious if you got your K20D in yet and if you've had a chance to see how it's working for you yet.

I have received my K20D with the kit lens (II), I still have a nice lens on the way (FA-77), so I am refraining from doing too much comparisons yet until I have a decent lens on it. I am just getting to know the camera and figuring it all out. I would say that I am in a deep learning curve. Hopefully some of my frustrations will alleviate themselves somewhat (or hopefully a lot) with a better lens on it, or with more insight into this camera, but so far this learning curve has me deep into figuring out the built-in exposure meter (which I took for granted with the Canons) Pentax's 16-segment meter seems to be a different beast than Canon's evaluative matrix. I usually only work with AE when I am out and about with my wife, while that isn't the most critical of my photography, still something I still want to be able to do. (the same with AWB, which seems to be way off, but thankfully manual works very nicely). With a Gretag MacBeth Gray card filling the frame, the exposure meter gets better to where it only wants to underexpose by 1/2 to 2/3 EV.

A seemingly much narrower dynamic range (not sure if that is Pentax in general, the higher resolution sensor, or hopefully a limitation on this kit lens, (although this kit lens is supposed to be a lot nicer than the previous generation). What is useable shadow detail on my Canon is unrecoverable on the Pentax. I've tried the Expand Dynamic Range feature, it didn't have any effect on the shadow portions, but did prevent highlights from being blown, at the risk of even further underexposure. And in general a lot higher noise level even in ISO 100 than I am used to, even without the EDR engaged, (in blue sky which really shouldn't have any noise in it at 100), but again hopefully this is this lens and the fact that most of my images are slightly to moderately underexposed. At the park I was shooting with +1.5 EV compensation and everything still a measure underexposed. (which could lead to more noise). Still need to play around with the scene file settings, I believe it is in default mode of Bright and perhaps there is too much contrast and sharpness applied which is throwing all this off. I will try Natural on my next outing (should have a new lens by then).

If anyone had any suggestions about the metering, or the contrast, sharpen settings (of course I am shooting RAW DNG via Lightroom, so not sure if that will even apply to me at all unless I shoot PEF and take into Pentax Lab)
04-07-2008, 08:59 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
Cloudswimmer, just curious if you got your K20D in yet and if you've had a chance to see how it's working for you yet.
Hi, well its on the UPS truck out for delivery.I really won't be able to test it though till Wed.Keep working at it, and I'll let you know what I come up with towards the end of the week.

Chris
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