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10-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #46
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Pentax needs FF? Nonsense for now. Even they make best FF, the lack of lenses will be highest disadvantage. Using Films lens? It's only about Pentaxian. What about other pro photographers? Do they want to buy Pentax FF which has few lenses? That's why most of them buy Canon and Nikon.

Let me talk about the price of lenses. beginner's lenses which are 35 f2.0, 50.4 are expensive than other brands. Also Only 2 lenses for cheap(but it's not cheap).

10-18-2013, 01:18 PM   #47
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We have been over these points rather a lot. However, the lack of current FF lenses does not mean there would not be some new ones released when a suitable body is released. You would no more expect Pentax to be talking about such lenses prior to release, than you would about a body to fit them to. They only list old FF lenses because they still sell well, but overwhelmingly to APS-C users, I imagine, rather than film users. It is possible that they might release a FF body without new lenses (though I doubt it) and target the existing owner base as the Early Adopters. More likely, a progressive release of lenses with a new body would occur over time.

The strategy has to fit the size of the manufacturer and the market. Ricoh is not Sony. Sony seems to be innovative and, to an extent they are, but mostly they just churn out new cameras (and other products as well) in quick succession and throw them at the market to see what works. It's not surprising that they don't make a profit from those things. We shouldn't be angry at Pentax for being more cautious about product development. You don't stay in business for long by making a loss on most of the things you sell.
10-18-2013, 01:34 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
Pentax needs FF? Nonsense for now. Even they make best FF, the lack of lenses will be highest disadvantage. Using Films lens? It's only about Pentaxian. What about other pro photographers? Do they want to buy Pentax FF which has few lenses? That's why most of them buy Canon and Nikon.

Let me talk about the price of lenses. beginner's lenses which are 35 f2.0, 50.4 are expensive than other brands. Also Only 2 lenses for cheap(but it's not cheap).


It's really simple, especially since it doesn't seem you have much of an investment in Pentax: just buy whatever camera/ lenses you want. If Pentax goes the Kodak way, well, that's life. All things human come to an end some day. The good news is, you shouldn't care about it, because there are so many options, so many brands! It doesn't do you any good to be so upset for nothing, really.
You wouldn't get angry with TV or washing machine brands, would you?

Last edited by causey; 10-18-2013 at 02:26 PM.
10-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
Pentax needs FF? Nonsense for now. Even they make best FF, the lack of lenses will be highest disadvantage. Using Films lens? It's only about Pentaxian. What about other pro photographers? Do they want to buy Pentax FF which has few lenses? That's why most of them buy Canon and Nikon.

Let me talk about the price of lenses. beginner's lenses which are 35 f2.0, 50.4 are expensive than other brands. Also Only 2 lenses for cheap(but it's not cheap).
I don't see anyone else offer in-expensive, beginner WR lenses that cover 18-200mm, entry body with 100% penta prism, etc etc. Beginners often are talked into buying primes without knowing how to appreciate it -- yea I was one of those a few years ago. And they are being told that without FF they aren't real photographers. You can pick apart any system by talking about just the weak points. I can talk about how crappy the cheap primes feel that the other manufactures offer all day too.

10-18-2013, 02:42 PM   #50
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Full frame important. setups but rounded plate and Panasonic users to take their pictures do you like better. Pentax biggest problem for Pentax users do not instill a score of expectations of other users of a-Phone's sense that not at all tempted. This means, if not a full-frame "Our king will end plate from Pentax crop," he professed, and just pull the lenses give a roadmap for crop and future vision to open, I think. lenses 24mm 35mm equivalent corresponding to the single just pull the lenses to give even more to add professional grade star lens and flash, if improved, too bad crop else. Pentax now, just look at all the users not to expect him to give munjep is planted. , we may develop a full frame. The possibilities are open and in the development of these nuances, but spitting .. .. Then DA lens for crop what do you want to collect a lot of confusion and user expectations eopeuni they are old Pentax User Lost .... Plus k-5 or k-3 Oh, great, but the third-party or user-Phone with getting a Pentax ... the temptation to feel like there is little creative. Nikon or Canon as strong as sports figures or good (in fact, but it can not agree) like Sony stop new challenges a7 but eventually produces a mirror-less like a full-frame or ... the best advantage, but almost certainly not gonna tell'm sad .... this frivolous chancel of the mirrorless market has entered the red ocean at this point, not even the advantage of Pentax So we're coming down to the lower third-party users of the Pentax excuses. eventually leaving existing users continue to share .... a vicious cycle of declining revenues robbed repeatedly. cameras

Last edited by Ash; 10-19-2013 at 12:06 AM.
10-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
You guys don't know the problem... They faced many problems. I know that they innovate good camera body but not lens. They showed only few of them. You know what? If K-5 and K-7 were innovative camera, then why people does not buy pentax rather nickon and cannon? This shows the real problem. I heard that they have problems about money and other things.

Even Pentax have difference from Canon and Nikon, they don't know what customers wanted. Releasing lenses is the best example.
Owned by a comapny half the size of Canon and twice the size of Nikon - 279th largest company on earth. Massive capital . . .Massive free cash flow. History since 1939 . . making cameras since 1950. Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd. made a profit for the half-fiscal year. Ricoh published its plans for its 4 main operating devisions (including PENTAX in large, bold letters) for FY32014 just last week. Etc.

What money problem? What problem at all???? We've only seen the beginning. There's more to come.

aaaaaaaaaaaannddddddddd . . . . . . . . boriscleto.
10-18-2013, 03:18 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole Quote
I hear Canikon land is a magical place where the grass is greener, the girls are prettier, it rains gumdrops and unicorns fart rainbows. You should go there. I'll help you pack.
And we have a winner

(Here's hoping my guess at an emoticon works...)
10-18-2013, 03:20 PM   #53
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@rlatjsrud Stop trolling will ya!

10-18-2013, 03:33 PM   #54
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I'm bucking both trends: just got a Pentax, just got a DSLR to replace my mirrorless Lumix. Oh, and I'm not lusting over a FF. Hell I'm just not a photographer; serious photographers only use compacts.

I'd argue serious photographers (whatever that is) use whatever camera they have with them when the photo they want presents itself.

I guess as an Apple user I'm somewhat inured to cries of "[company] is doomed!!!1!11!!11"
10-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
@rlatjsrud Stop trolling will ya!
I never trolled but the truth. Why are you trying to avoid the problem that PENTAX have faced?
10-18-2013, 04:45 PM - 3 Likes   #56
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10-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Owned by a comapny half the size of Canon and twice the size of Nikon - 279th largest company on earth. Massive capital . . .Massive free cash flow. History since 1939 . . making cameras since 1950. Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd. made a profit for the half-fiscal year. Ricoh published its plans for its 4 main operating devisions (including PENTAX in large, bold letters) for FY32014 just last week. Etc.

What money problem? What problem at all???? We've only seen the beginning. There's more to come.

aaaaaaaaaaaannddddddddd . . . . . . . . boriscleto.
I concur.
10-19-2013, 01:26 PM - 1 Like   #58
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Good golly, Ms. Molly!

Full frame, full frame, full frame... what is the obsession with full frame? I mean, is it really a game of "mine's bigger than yours"?? Does your finger fidget on the shutter release button because you have a strange echoey voice in your head saying, "It's not ffffuuuuulllll ffffrrraaaaammmmeeee!" Do you run out of the bathroom screaming in horror when you realize that your Pentax DSLR is not full frame? I think to the great photographers of the 20th century with their grainy black and white film and old fashioned non-coated lenses. What would they think of our DSLRs today? What would they create?

I imagine these FF fetishists laying on the ground, curled up in a fetal position, sweat beads on their foreheads. They mumble softly to themselves, "full frame.. .. .. full .. .. frame". The words are lost to the winds that blow in through the shutters and to the sound of drips coming from the leaky faucet nearby.

Obviously, Pentax/Ricoh is not going to make a FF just for the symbolism of it and they aren't going to make something they can't sell for a profit. They also won't make something for the 100-200 PF members who would buy one no matter how much money it would cost. It's the reality we all live in as of now. Could it change? Sure! Honestly, if you want FF for the sake of whatever FF means to you then go buy it. What's stopping you? Is it me? Is it your neighbor across the street? No, it must be their potted cactus stopping you. Yes, that's it. Ricoh and Pentax are doomed and this entire forum, all the members, and every post here since 2006 has been rendered obsolete, useless, and meaningless. I think I'll go swallow a light bulb. Maybe that will make the world right! No, I ought to swallow that cactus. Yes... yes.. yes...

Oh wow, that was fun! I have to type nonsense like that more often! Haha! Please, provoke me!

APS is a great format. Really, it is. Snap up some FF lenses let the sensor crop out the soft corners while keeping the sharp center.
10-19-2013, 10:47 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Good golly, Ms. Molly!

Full frame, full frame, full frame... what is the obsession with full frame? I mean, is it really a game of "mine's bigger than yours"?? Does your finger fidget on the shutter release button because you have a strange echoey voice in your head saying, "It's not ffffuuuuulllll ffffrrraaaaammmmeeee!" Do you run out of the bathroom screaming in horror when you realize that your Pentax DSLR is not full frame? I think to the great photographers of the 20th century with their grainy black and white film and old fashioned non-coated lenses. What would they think of our DSLRs today? What would they create?

I imagine these FF fetishists laying on the ground, curled up in a fetal position, sweat beads on their foreheads. They mumble softly to themselves, "full frame.. .. .. full .. .. frame". The words are lost to the winds that blow in through the shutters and to the sound of drips coming from the leaky faucet nearby.

Obviously, Pentax/Ricoh is not going to make a FF just for the symbolism of it and they aren't going to make something they can't sell for a profit. They also won't make something for the 100-200 PF members who would buy one no matter how much money it would cost. It's the reality we all live in as of now. Could it change? Sure! Honestly, if you want FF for the sake of whatever FF means to you then go buy it. What's stopping you? Is it me? Is it your neighbor across the street? No, it must be their potted cactus stopping you. Yes, that's it. Ricoh and Pentax are doomed and this entire forum, all the members, and every post here since 2006 has been rendered obsolete, useless, and meaningless. I think I'll go swallow a light bulb. Maybe that will make the world right! No, I ought to swallow that cactus. Yes... yes.. yes...

Oh wow, that was fun! I have to type nonsense like that more often! Haha! Please, provoke me!

APS is a great format. Really, it is. Snap up some FF lenses let the sensor crop out the soft corners while keeping the sharp center.
This is a really valid point. I tend to only buy FF lenses because perhaps one day Pentax will make a FF K-mount camera but mainly due to the point you made above. FF lenses on crop format really does work.
10-20-2013, 12:44 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Good golly, Ms. Molly!

Full frame, full frame, full frame... what is the obsession with full frame? I mean, is it really a game of "mine's bigger than yours"?? Does your finger fidget on the shutter release button because you have a strange echoey voice in your head saying, "It's not ffffuuuuulllll ffffrrraaaaammmmeeee!" Do you run out of the bathroom screaming in horror when you realize that your Pentax DSLR is not full frame? I think to the great photographers of the 20th century with their grainy black and white film and old fashioned non-coated lenses. What would they think of our DSLRs today? What would they create?

I imagine these FF fetishists laying on the ground, curled up in a fetal position, sweat beads on their foreheads. They mumble softly to themselves, "full frame.. .. .. full .. .. frame". The words are lost to the winds that blow in through the shutters and to the sound of drips coming from the leaky faucet nearby.

Obviously, Pentax/Ricoh is not going to make a FF just for the symbolism of it and they aren't going to make something they can't sell for a profit. They also won't make something for the 100-200 PF members who would buy one no matter how much money it would cost. It's the reality we all live in as of now. Could it change? Sure! Honestly, if you want FF for the sake of whatever FF means to you then go buy it. What's stopping you? Is it me? Is it your neighbor across the street? No, it must be their potted cactus stopping you. Yes, that's it. Ricoh and Pentax are doomed and this entire forum, all the members, and every post here since 2006 has been rendered obsolete, useless, and meaningless. I think I'll go swallow a light bulb. Maybe that will make the world right! No, I ought to swallow that cactus. Yes... yes.. yes...

Oh wow, that was fun! I have to type nonsense like that more often! Haha! Please, provoke me!

APS is a great format. Really, it is. Snap up some FF lenses let the sensor crop out the soft corners while keeping the sharp center.
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