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10-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Pentax OTOH has the most complete APSC lineup in the whole industry.
Not without a fast 24 it doesn't. The most glaring oversight, especially in today's market, where the X100 has proven how popular with FL is. Every company has a fast, high-quality one to make 35mm on APSc, except Pentax, who is supposedly committed to APSc and has "the most complete lineup in the whole industry".

This focal length is the one the Pentax fans often will not discuss, or they will say "the DA21 is good enough". Right, a f3.2 vs. f2 or faster. Sure. And now Fuji has released their fast 35 equivalent.

I will argue that Fuji will overtake Pentax in this area because they are actually starting out with the proven focal lengths. And, in fact, Pentax should be scared of the strides they are making.

10-20-2013, 01:07 AM   #62
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I am curious as to what you call newbie friendly.......I have currently invested in a K-30 ($550) with 18-55 WR ($149), 55-300 D-AL ($229), Tamron 90mm ($399) 2.8, 35mm 2.8 ($199), 50mm M 1.4 ($25), 50mm M 1.7 ($25), 50mm M 2.0 ($5) and an extra battery. That's $1600. How far do you think that would get me with Canon or Nikon (or Sony). How long do you think that will allow me to "learn" for?
10-20-2013, 02:47 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistlefoot Quote
I am curious as to what you call newbie friendly.......I have currently invested in a K-30 ($550) with 18-55 WR ($149), 55-300 D-AL ($229), Tamron 90mm ($399) 2.8, 35mm 2.8 ($199), 50mm M 1.4 ($25), 50mm M 1.7 ($25), 50mm M 2.0 ($5) and an extra battery. That's $1600. How far do you think that would get me with Canon or Nikon (or Sony). How long do you think that will allow me to "learn" for?
You've done well for $1600.

Using the Tamron 90mm Macro and especially the M-50mm f/1.7 . . . . you can keep learning for a very long time. Try using the f1.4 in manual focus for low light work, that's the most challenging and the most fun.

Also get an M42 adapter and keep finding that vintage glass!
10-20-2013, 04:10 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
I'm sick of these sort of threads as well. If you want a bloody FF camera go somewhere else. Pentax does landscape and out door photography very well. The K-mount provides access to a very wide lens selection and even the the new K3 is cheap when compared to the higher end offerings of the bid boys. If that isn't enough, well go somewhere else. In fact, just go out and take pictures.
Pentax is also great at architectural photography due to the sensor shift function.

Besides except for Sony I don't think other brands can even dare to compete with the K-3/5. They are too big, too heavy, too unergonomic.

10-20-2013, 04:15 AM   #65
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How does the cheapest image stablised canikon lens compare to the cheaper Pentax lenses? Really that's what should be compared.

And I also think a big point of difference is Pentax just do not make crap lenses unlike its competition. The results of a cheap Pentax lens far exceeds canikons offerings.

And I beg to differ. I think Pentax makes a product customers do want. They either just don't realise it or not aware of Pentax.
10-20-2013, 04:33 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Not without a fast 24 it doesn't. The most glaring oversight, especially in today's market, where the X100 has proven how popular with FL is. Every company has a fast, high-quality one to make 35mm on APSc, except Pentax, who is supposedly committed to APSc and has "the most complete lineup in the whole industry".

This focal length is the one the Pentax fans often will not discuss, or they will say "the DA21 is good enough". Right, a f3.2 vs. f2 or faster. Sure. And now Fuji has released their fast 35 equivalent.

I will argue that Fuji will overtake Pentax in this area because they are actually starting out with the proven focal lengths. And, in fact, Pentax should be scared of the strides they are making.
I'm one of those "you can just crop DA 21" people but you're right, it seems that DA 21, even the updated one, is not as good as the fuji / oly / pana equivalents.

I'm guessing it's a rather slim chance to get an updated lens in the FL now that the new DA 21 is out though :/
10-20-2013, 05:41 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
How does the cheapest image stablised canikon lens compare to the cheaper Pentax lenses? Really that's what should be compared.
The number of people buying Canon, Nikon, Fuji X, Sony NEX reveals that IS, while I find it valuable, isn't as important to keep people on a brand as we think.

And for that matter, Ricoh found it no big big deal to put IS on their GR, and few are complaining there, plus it doesn't have an overly fast lens.

So while the spec sheets say one thing, reality is saying that the IS is only a small part of a variety of factors to go with one system over another.
10-20-2013, 08:00 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
The number of people buying Canon, Nikon, Fuji X, Sony NEX reveals that IS, while I find it valuable, isn't as important to keep people on a brand as we think.
See I think that is an awareness thing. Most of those people don't know Pentax exist (still) and certainly are not informed on their in body image stabilisation.

This is a major feature, especially for those at the budget end. I know it was the number 1 reason I went for Pentax when buying my first ever DSLR (K-30).

10-20-2013, 08:15 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
See I think that is an awareness thing. Most of those people don't know Pentax exist (still) and certainly are not informed on their in body image stabilisation.

This is a major feature, especially for those at the budget end. I know it was the number 1 reason I went for Pentax when buying my first ever DSLR (K-30).
I think people don't really understand how much difference there is between having IS vs none without experiencing it themselves. People tend to think that if you simply keep the shutter speed fast it's fine, but a lot of time they don't always remember that on the field. I'm currently going through a bunch of photos taken by a couple of my friends' (5DM3 and Oly EM-5) and mine (K-5) from an event we went to. None of my Canon friend's lens is stabilized and the keep rate shows. It's one of those things where I feel like "yeah I can live without it if I have to but it makes no sense having to think about it".
10-20-2013, 08:16 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
See I think that is an awareness thing. Most of those people don't know Pentax exist (still) and certainly are not informed on their in body image stabilisation.

This is a major feature, especially for those at the budget end. I know it was the number 1 reason I went for Pentax when buying my first ever DSLR (K-30).
Rationalization. And a poor one at that. I've not heard anyone here saying they thought it was out of business. This is how a few internet stories, perhaps questionable ones, turns into a rationale.

As far as people not knowing about the IBIS, ask anyone on an olympus E-volt system, provided they're not bending the truth (ie about no other company having weather sealing). They all know because the K-5 is their only real alternate for the pitiful E-5.

It's simply not a big deal to many, but it's not the be all, end all of photography and many who shoot know that.
10-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Rationalization. And a poor one at that. I've not heard anyone here saying they thought it was out of business. This is how a few internet stories, perhaps questionable ones, turns into a rationale.
I frequently shoot for my martial art club. After seeing the pictures a lot of them asked what I shoot with, most never even heard of Pentax or thought they were out of business long time ago.
10-20-2013, 08:36 AM   #72
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To the OP : very friendly advice : please, switch brand !

You complain again and again, in differents threads Pentax has no FF, Pentax has no new lenses, Pentax has not this or that. Great ! Keep focusing on what this brand don't have, go in the Canikon land with their 1.599$ FF body and their 1.000$ 24-105/4, to see how much all those brand have something we don't have, and enjoy it !

If Pentax is not feeted to you, your need, your style, use the market place to sell your gear and move on.

If Pentax answer your need, stick with it, but stop complaining and whinning about things that will never happen !


Now, on the argument : The K3 answer many of the critics against the k5 series. Pentax don't have a lot of tele-zoom and don't renew their lens line-up every year because it doesn't have 40% of the market, but only 5%, and on those 5% maybe 1% (let's be generous !) buy other lenses than the basic two kit lenses. There is just not enought buyer to justify the renewal of all lenses every year, and what's the point of producing lenses that won't sell enough to be profitable for the company ? there is none.

Conclusion : stop whining and change brand, or stay but stop complaining about what is not Pentax. (Yeah, i'm tired of this kind of thread)
10-20-2013, 09:53 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Rationalization. And a poor one at that. I've not heard anyone here saying they thought it was out of business. This is how a few internet stories, perhaps questionable ones, turns into a rationale.

As far as people not knowing about the IBIS, ask anyone on an olympus E-volt system, provided they're not bending the truth (ie about no other company having weather sealing). They all know because the K-5 is their only real alternate for the pitiful E-5.

It's simply not a big deal to many, but it's not the be all, end all of photography and many who shoot know that.
Without fail everyone who has a passing interest in photography that has asked what I shoot with had been surprised Pentax was still around. Almost all have said they used to own one in the film era but had no idea they were still around.

Why would anyone with an olympus know the features of a Pentax? I certainly know nothing about olympus.

IBIS isn't be all. But it is a major selling point.
10-20-2013, 10:52 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
Without fail everyone who has a passing interest in photography that has asked what I shoot with had been surprised Pentax was still around. Almost all have said they used to own one in the film era but had no idea they were still around.

Why would anyone with an olympus know the features of a Pentax? I certainly know nothing about olympus.

IBIS isn't be all. But it is a major selling point.
You should, perhaps, change the crowd. It's not about the gear. I'm shooting alongside with pros and no one is asking about anything. The extent of it were some Canon shooters seeing my M85 and commenting about how they'd love to buy one and mod it. Then we go and have dinner, then we go back out and start shooting. This is almost certainly the modus of people who generate income via photography.
10-20-2013, 12:01 PM   #75
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Just dawned on me why many people want FF. In thier legacy lens collections the fastest lenses were the old 'normal' lengths (50 and 55). On APS-C those frame rather restrictively, greatly increasing working distance. Lenses with 'normal' framing at a 'normal' working distance were all rather slower - or premium priced - see the difference of Takumar 35/3.5 and 35/2. And of course extreme wide angle was either not available in old legacy lenses or is now incredimbly expensive (e.g. 15/3.5 SMC Tak @ $1800 now). So would these people be a good market to chase as a business?
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