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03-30-2008, 12:02 PM   #1
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what do I lose by going with the 200D

Ok, at long last my tax return is coming this week... so I finally have gotten clearance to buy my camera. Of course since I decided on the K10D I've slowly watched every reputable reseller either stop selling it or raise the price to a point where it seems silly. Buy.com had it reasonably, but upon further review its being sold from someone called Pricepiggie.com (Amazon had one from them last week) and I am not thrilled about the prospect of doing that. I am also not thrilled about buying used from ebay. Its taken me 3 years to convince my wife I should get a DSLR, and once I do, that is the one I am going to have for a while.... so used scares me.

I have decided on the Pentax system for the following reasons...

1) I like the in-camera stabilization.

2) I like that I can buy old Pentax prime lenses and use them. I dont mind manually focusing, in fact with my 50mm flim lens I sometimes prefer it.

3) I like the ergonomics of the Pentax. The Rebel is WAY too small, and I just dont think the Nikons are comfortable to hold.

I had selected the K10D because it seemed like a camera I could grow with. I am new to photography, but I dont want a camera that will limit me. I plan to shoot in Av mode most of the time, but sometimes I see the benefit of going full manual. I have no need for scene modes.

So the K10D seemed PERFECT for me (I mean sure I'd love the K20D.... but I'd also love the Canon 5D... Somethings just arent happening)

Of course now with stock dwindling I may not be able to get the K10D.

So I started to think about the K200D. It seems to be that there are some intriguing options that the camera offers.

1) Slightly smaller body. I held both the K10D and the K100D and if I was 100% honest with myself the K100 fit a little better in my hand.

2) slightly larger LCD Screen

3) AA batteries.... I have NO IDEA if this is a plus or a minus. I currently use a Canon S3IS and LOVE that I can change the batteries when needed... but will an SLR just chew through them?

3) The fact that is a newer generation would make me think that there is a reasonable chance that improvements in IQ over the K10D were made....

4) Comes with the newer kit lens (however I'm not sure about this anymore, cant get a solid answer)

However there are some problems too:

1) only one thumb dial. I dont think this will be a huge problem, but when in manual mode it seems that 2 would be helpful

2) Lack of certain modes... I have read so much at this point I cant even remember what they are.

3) smaller, pentamirror viewfinder. I have the S3IS now which has the LCD viewfinder so ANY viewfinder is an improvement... How much of a big deal is the pentaprisim of the K10D

4) AA batteries... see comment above... I have no idea if this is good or bad

5) the general sense that this is a "beginner's camera". Will I not be able to grow with this?

It seems that at this point I can get them both for the same price, but the 200 is a) at better resellers and b) BRAND NEW, not end of life.

Does anyone have any guidance? Are there any positives/negatives about the 200D that I am missing? I need help here....

03-30-2008, 12:16 PM   #2
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I can only tell you why I opted for the K10D and I had the order placed on the K200D, I got them to stop it 10 minutes before it was shipped.

1) AA batteries. For me it was a big negative. I don't appreciate having to fiddle with 4 AA batteries. And in my opinion (this differs with alot) rechargable AA batteries sucks. Please note that I can fully appreciate people that are away from home alot that love this.

2) Size, I was sceptical all along to the size, but figured I'd get used to it. But I have quite big hands, and I am already considering the vertical grip for the K10D, because I feel it could use more size and weight.

3) In Sweden atleast, after checking with Pentax the new kit lense will not be shipped with K200D until after the summer. And these guys gets their orders from Pentax EU HQ, so I can only guess that it's the same for all of Europe, possibly for the whole world. This is what really made me change my mind.

4) Camera settings. I hate having to fiddle with menus on the LCD, therefor I wanted as much dials/buttons I could get. And I am so happy I got two dials.

5) I plan to upgrade to K20D later on, at that point I will be able to use battery grip, batteries etc that I buy for the K10D. And I will already feel comfortable with the size and all the buttons/dials by then and not have to relearn.

Other then that I felt that the K10D will be more stable over all.

And now 3 weeks later, I am very statisfied with the K10D, I do not for a second regret picking it. Worth noting is that I bought the house only and picked other lenses to go with it. There are quite a few places around here that still have the K10D and its cheaper then the K200D.


PS. As stated, but for emphasis, this post is all subjective and completly based on my own thoughts and opinions.
03-30-2008, 01:17 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
Ok, at long last my tax return is coming this week... so I finally have gotten clearance to buy my camera. Of course since I decided on the K10D I've slowly watched every reputable reseller either stop selling it or raise the price to a point where it seems silly. Buy.com had it reasonably, but upon further review its being sold from someone called Pricepiggie.com (Amazon had one from them last week) and I am not thrilled about the prospect of doing that. I am also not thrilled about buying used from ebay. Its taken me 3 years to convince my wife I should get a DSLR, and once I do, that is the one I am going to have for a while.... so used scares me.

I have decided on the Pentax system for the following reasons...

1) I like the in-camera stabilization.

2) I like that I can buy old Pentax prime lenses and use them. I dont mind manually focusing, in fact with my 50mm flim lens I sometimes prefer it.

3) I like the ergonomics of the Pentax. The Rebel is WAY too small, and I just dont think the Nikons are comfortable to hold.

I had selected the K10D because it seemed like a camera I could grow with. I am new to photography, but I dont want a camera that will limit me. I plan to shoot in Av mode most of the time, but sometimes I see the benefit of going full manual. I have no need for scene modes.

So the K10D seemed PERFECT for me (I mean sure I'd love the K20D.... but I'd also love the Canon 5D... Somethings just arent happening)

Of course now with stock dwindling I may not be able to get the K10D.

So I started to think about the K200D. It seems to be that there are some intriguing options that the camera offers.

1) Slightly smaller body. I held both the K10D and the K100D and if I was 100% honest with myself the K100 fit a little better in my hand.

2) slightly larger LCD Screen

3) AA batteries.... I have NO IDEA if this is a plus or a minus. I currently use a Canon S3IS and LOVE that I can change the batteries when needed... but will an SLR just chew through them?

Buy a set of Eneloop rechargeable and a good charger. These lasted forever in my K100D. The plus side is if you're on a trip and you forget/loose/break the charger or battery (and this HAS happened to me, but you may not be as forgetful as I am...) you can still use your camera!

3) The fact that is a newer generation would make me think that there is a reasonable chance that improvements in IQ over the K10D were made....

Can't comment. K10D though was great till about 400 ISO IMO. After that to me it was "eh" up until 800 ISO from there it was "not a chance". As far as quality images in low ISOs the K10D was great.

4) Comes with the newer kit lens (however I'm not sure about this anymore, cant get a solid answer)

I recommend the Sigma 17-70mm

However there are some problems too:

1) only one thumb dial. I dont think this will be a huge problem, but when in manual mode it seems that 2 would be helpful

I don't usually find it an issue unless I'm in the middle of shooting a wedding or something and every nano second counts. Things are pretty reasonably placed so it's really not a big deal (Assuming it's similar to the K100D)

2) Lack of certain modes... I have read so much at this point I cant even remember what they are.

Some are nice but I don't think you'd miss them too much. Of course it's a personal thing...

3) smaller, pentamirror viewfinder. I have the S3IS now which has the LCD viewfinder so ANY viewfinder is an improvement... How much of a big deal is the pentaprisim of the K10D

Again, never found it an issue and I've used the K100D and Canon 5D and could go from one to the other without a problem.

4) AA batteries... see comment above... I have no idea if this is good or bad

5) the general sense that this is a "beginner's camera". Will I not be able to grow with this?

You absolutely will. The scene modes make it easier for beginners to use but like all DSLRs it is a tool and you can manipulate it to the max if you wish.

It seems that at this point I can get them both for the same price, but the 200 is a) at better resellers and b) BRAND NEW, not end of life.

Does anyone have any guidance? Are there any positives/negatives about the 200D that I am missing? I need help here....
Personally I would probably go with the K200D and in a few years with the K40D so you still have the 200 as a backup...
03-30-2008, 01:22 PM   #4
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Welcome gcap.
You seems to have given this a lot of thought already, and by the looks of it, have already made up your mind.

I'm sure many would agree K10D's a great choice, even ahead of the K200D. On top of the reasons Zerwak mentioned, there's weather sealing and TAv, Sv and USER modes which are very useful.

Bear in mind the K200D has the same 10Mpix CCD sensor as the K10D, and so IQ is probably going to come out similar between the cameras.

If money's a big issue, then go K10D and pair it up with a couple of quality lenses with the money saved. I don't think you'll have a problem with 'growing into' either the K10D or K200D, though. They're both good bodies.

On the other hand, if you're looking to buy a body as a long-term investment and going beyond amateur photography, I'd say save your pennies and go K20D - now THERE'S a body with many more plusses on the K10D...

03-30-2008, 02:40 PM   #5
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I'm getting closer to making a decision....

Thanks everyone for your comments....

I am starting to lean towards the K200D.

I like that I can buy it from a reputable dealer for a more reasonable price. The only local dealers who carry Pentax only have the K100 available to hold and use. I've held it and I like it. Its bigger than the Rebel and the D60 and I like that... Is the K200D bigger than the K100? I dont think the extra dial is going to be a big deal... I'm curious about the TAv mode, but I honestly have no idea what it is.... Would I use it frequently?

I think if I went with my heart I would get the K10D. I think there are fewer things I would regret... but I have been so scared off by some of the resellers out there, and I cant seem to justify spending more on it than the K200D, especially if the reseller is questionable. Right now I can get the K200D with the better kit lens for $730 on Amazon (sold BY Amazon). The CHEAPEST I can find the K10D is $750 for the body only from Adorama and Newegg. I would have to spend another $100 at least to get the kit lens, so I am looking at getting the K10D for $100 more...

Does anyone know a REPUTABLE dealer who is selling the K10D for less that $800? It seems silly that as it gets older it gets more expensive...

So the last real hangup is the lack of a dedicated ISO button (does the K10D even have that?), the viewfinder, and the lack of TAV mode (assuming that is something I would even want).... I'm babbling, but that is what I have been reduced to in this... If only I had the money at christmas time and could have gotten the K10D for $500 after rebate... well such is life.
03-30-2008, 02:41 PM   #6
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Hi Gcap,
I have been caught in the situation on an overseas trip with a camera that used a propietory battery when the charger broke, I could not buy one for love nor money but managed to get it going again with some improvised repairs.

However, a couple of weeks later I am a few hours on the road when I have had that horrible sinking feeling in the gut....sure enough...a quick check revealed that I had left the charger cable back in the motel!!! Trip was nearing the end anyway, so I kept going, but on returning home did some homework and bought a thing called a Pentax *ist DSLR.

For me anyway, when travelling, AA's are a huge benefit.

All comes back to your needs.

Cheers.

PS: yes, get some Eneloops...great performance.

Last edited by Mallee Boy; 03-30-2008 at 02:43 PM. Reason: PS:
03-30-2008, 03:59 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
Ok, at long last my tax return is coming this week... so I finally have gotten clearance to buy my camera. Of course since I decided on the K10D I've slowly watched every reputable reseller either stop selling it or raise the price to a point where it seems silly. Buy.com had it reasonably, but upon further review its being sold from someone called Pricepiggie.com (Amazon had one from them last week) and I am not thrilled about the prospect of doing that. I am also not thrilled about buying used from ebay. Its taken me 3 years to convince my wife I should get a DSLR, and once I do, that is the one I am going to have for a while.... so used scares me.

I have decided on the Pentax system for the following reasons...

1) I like the in-camera stabilization.

2) I like that I can buy old Pentax prime lenses and use them. I dont mind manually focusing, in fact with my 50mm flim lens I sometimes prefer it.

3) I like the ergonomics of the Pentax. The Rebel is WAY too small, and I just dont think the Nikons are comfortable to hold.

I had selected the K10D because it seemed like a camera I could grow with. I am new to photography, but I dont want a camera that will limit me. I plan to shoot in Av mode most of the time, but sometimes I see the benefit of going full manual. I have no need for scene modes.

So the K10D seemed PERFECT for me (I mean sure I'd love the K20D.... but I'd also love the Canon 5D... Somethings just arent happening)

Of course now with stock dwindling I may not be able to get the K10D.

So I started to think about the K200D. It seems to be that there are some intriguing options that the camera offers.

1) Slightly smaller body. I held both the K10D and the K100D and if I was 100% honest with myself the K100 fit a little better in my hand.

2) slightly larger LCD Screen

3) AA batteries.... I have NO IDEA if this is a plus or a minus. I currently use a Canon S3IS and LOVE that I can change the batteries when needed... but will an SLR just chew through them?

3) The fact that is a newer generation would make me think that there is a reasonable chance that improvements in IQ over the K10D were made....

4) Comes with the newer kit lens (however I'm not sure about this anymore, cant get a solid answer)

However there are some problems too:

1) only one thumb dial. I dont think this will be a huge problem, but when in manual mode it seems that 2 would be helpful

2) Lack of certain modes... I have read so much at this point I cant even remember what they are.

3) smaller, pentamirror viewfinder. I have the S3IS now which has the LCD viewfinder so ANY viewfinder is an improvement... How much of a big deal is the pentaprisim of the K10D

4) AA batteries... see comment above... I have no idea if this is good or bad

5) the general sense that this is a "beginner's camera". Will I not be able to grow with this?

It seems that at this point I can get them both for the same price, but the 200 is a) at better resellers and b) BRAND NEW, not end of life.

Does anyone have any guidance? Are there any positives/negatives about the 200D that I am missing? I need help here....

I have a K10D I would be willing to part with. will pm you with details
03-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
Does anyone know a REPUTABLE dealer who is selling the K10D for less that $800? It seems silly that as it gets older it gets more expensive...
I just bought mine 5 days ago from Ritz Camera. Body only was $699 (and if you want the older version of the 18-55 lens to come with it, they sell it for $799).

03-30-2008, 04:47 PM   #9
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K100D Super owner here, and glad I chose it over the K10 - I bought at a time when the K10 was fairly pricey and put the left over money towards some lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
Trip was nearing the end anyway, so I kept going, but on returning home did some homework and bought a thing called a Pentax *ist DSLR.
The ability to buy AAs from a corner shop has saved me before as well. Sure, it eats them for lunch, but at least you get the shot!

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I'm sure many would agree K10D's a great choice, even ahead of the K200D. On top of the reasons Zerwak mentioned, there's weather sealing and TAv, Sv and USER modes which are very useful.
I should point out that the K200 has Sv mode, and is weather sealed also.

QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
I dont think the extra dial is going to be a big deal... I'm curious about the TAv mode, but I honestly have no idea what it is.... Would I use it frequently?
In TAv mode, you set the aperture and shutter speed and the camera adjusts ISO automatically. It's basically an almost manual mode. I can't comment on whether it's any use though.

QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
So the last real hangup is the lack of a dedicated ISO button
If it helps, in Sv mode, the e-dial does control the sensitivity, although the shutter and aperture are auto controlled. I understand that with the K10, in some modes if you hold the OK button one of the edials can then adjust the sensitivity - perhaps the K200 has this feature also.

I must add as a K100 owner, that the single e-dial does make manual mode fairly tedious to use - if you use it / plan to use it a lot, you may want to reconsider things. Also, there have been times when the K10 style AF switch (which allows you to switch between AF.S and AF.C) as well as MF would have been handy too. Basically, I believe that unless you shoot a lot in manual, you'd be happy with either camera.
03-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
Thanks everyone for your comments....



I think if I went with my heart I would get the K10D. I think there are fewer things I would regret... but I have been so scared off by some of the resellers out there, and I cant seem to justify spending more on it than the K200D, especially if the reseller is questionable. .......

Does anyone know a REPUTABLE dealer who is selling the K10D for less that $800? It seems silly that as it gets older it gets more expensive...


Any reason why you wouldn't want to buy used? There are people selling K10D's in the marketplace forum all the time now, usually for around 500-600, and often only a few months old. You can probably count on a senior forum member with good feedback being very reputable. Something to consider.



.
03-30-2008, 05:06 PM   #11
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The decision is yours gcap.
Don't think you can go wrong with either camera.
You'll definitely get a second hand K10D (but in perfect condition) for much cheaper than a new K200D esp. in the US, and won't regret it.

Is TAv useful? In a word, yes, but that's if you care to exploit its function. I've used it when i want the aperture and shutter speeds to be fixed and can rely on the camera's meter to pick the right ISO. It is a clever mode when you know what settings you want.

To me, there's no big difference in AAs and the K10D's Li-ion battery. These days, the Eneloops are famed to pack in lots of power and go the distance on the K100D/K200D, and you can get AAs on demand from most shops. To be honest I've never needed to by AAs from anywhere, because I've always had 2 charged sets of AAs on hand, but I didn't like how they discharged after over a week or so of non-use.

The K10D's battery lasts just as long and doesn't discharge quite as much as the AAs, and because I bought 2 spare Li-ion batteries, I'll never run out of power. In fact, if I ever run into trouble, I have a portable charger for the Li-ion batteries for the car - never used it so far, but it's there just in case.

Bottom line, make the right decision for you and stick with it. Then get yourself the right lenses for the job and post your images!
03-30-2008, 05:08 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by gcap74 Quote
Does anyone know a REPUTABLE dealer who is selling the K10D for less that $800? It seems silly that as it gets older it gets more expensive...
Adorama has it for $750, new, body only...

19091 Pentax K10D Digital SLR Camera, 10.2MP, 2.5" LCD Monitor, 11 point AF, Single & Continuous AF shooting

I have 2 - K10D's and recommend them very highly, I love 'em! But now that the K20D is starting to come down I'm thinking of selling my backup K10 and making the K20 my primary....decisions..decisions.

Good luck with your decision and eventual purchase. Welcome to the Pentax family, you shant be dissapointed, that much I'm sure. :-D
03-30-2008, 06:49 PM   #13
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What to look for in used

Well, I think I may reconsider the used idea... there is something nice about a nice brand new camera, but buying from a trusted source and getting the K10D that I really want makes more sense in some ways. The thing is, I have NO IDEA what to look for and what questions to ask to make sure I get a quality product....
03-30-2008, 06:58 PM   #14
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Ask for the camera's condition, number of actuations (shots) and any known problems with mechanism/exposure (unlikely). Ask for a few sample shots taken with the camera - that's the best evidence that the camera's working OK.

I did the same and am confident of recommending buying used from reputable forum members.
Did I mention before to think about getting good lenses?
03-30-2008, 07:58 PM   #15
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One disadvantage of the k200d is that it uses a pentamirror viewfinder against the k10d pentaprism, if this is not an issue for you the k200d is really a great buy.
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