[Miguel]

Now there appears to be a market.

One great thing about this forum is that we are getting real time reports from around the world of Pentax retail re-entry. That's about the best news from Ricoh I ever hoped for because I want to believe it will lead to increased brand awareness, sales of course, and nudge third parties into slapping on a K-mount to their better lenses.

M

[Snydly]

Actually I should revise my earlier message as it may mean more than meets the eye. I do frequent the Melbourne, Florida store, but it has been about 2 months since I was last in. Seeing an 'equal' display to the Canon/Nikon/Sony displays is noteworthy, but the timing seemed to be coincident with the release of the K3. The shop is well run and seems on top of industry marketing and trends. They have knowledgeable employees who seem to know what's good, what's new, etc. I think the k3 sent a lot of people jumping. FWIW they said bring your lenses and an sd card and have fun with any of the cameras including the k3, which tells me they have stock, not just one on the shelf.

[jatrax]

Very good news. Retailers do not commit inventory dollars, shelf space and employee training to a product they don't see a future for. That is precisely why Pentax has gradually disappeared from retail shops in the US. Now it would seem they see enough of a future to set up full displays again. I'm not sure I can express how difficult it is to convince a retailer to take on a new line and dedicate precocious case space to it. It may only be a trickle now but retailers talk and if one has success with the Pentax line, next year others will jump on the wagon.

Well done Ricoh!

[Zafar Iqbal]

Mine is about 1km away And the next one after that? No idea.

They often give me rebates. So much so that I'm starting to feel bad about it - I know that's their plan (so i'll buy from them more often, to clear my conscious) and it's working the service is great and I love visiting them and have a talk.. and steal time from other costumers ehem. They don't like the last part though

[ElJamoquio]

2,893 miles. There is one store in SF that will special-order Pentax gear, but it comes at a premium and has to be paid for up front.

Lovely.

San Jose Camera has a reasonable stock of Pentax.

[Bagga_Txips]

If I remember rightly, retailers don't just have to invest time, space and training on a product, they also have to make considerable upfront cash payments and/or commitments before they are allowed to order stuff. I seem to remember from years ago that Pentax or someone was insisting on an investment of 20,000 dollars, and was not allowing the retailer to choose what he stocked - gear came in preselected bundles to show a wide range of product.

Another thing is that even though Pentax dslrs were terrific value because of the things they could do, at that time not many people were interested in those things. WR and excellent lowlight performance, for example. Many people wanted to shoot in hot sunny weather, so they didn't care. It's only just crossed my mind, but maybe smart phones helped Pentax! Because people like to photograph their meals!

The K3 seems like a good deal for the nouveau rich because it is high spec at a lower price than canikon, maybe? I am not calling PF K3 users names btw, because WE are the cognoscenti!

Or maybe the public in general is finally growing up and learning about photography? Even though it is a later technology, the same thing happened with home computing, after all. I remember my early days as a computing instructor, when science teachers were scared to touch the keyboard for fear of breaking the computer!

[jatrax]

If I remember rightly, retailers don't just have to invest time, space and training on a product, they also have to make considerable upfront cash payments and/or commitments before they are allowed to order stuff.

Not necessarily, in general manufacturers will extend a certain amount of dating (time to pay) to retailers. That might vary from 30 days to 6 months or even longer. No retailer is going pay "up front" for merchandise. The ideal situation is that the retailer purchases at a volume they can sell within the dating the wholesaler offers. So for example if the wholesaler offers 60 day dating then a purchase volume representing about 60 days of sales is ideal.

However, wholesalers also (usually) offer discounts based on volume and set minimum order quantities. So if you are willing to pay within 2 months for a 12 month supply you might get a better discount and thus a higher margin. But if you do that and stuff doesn't sell you are stuck, so it's always a trade off. What got retailers mad back in Hoya days was an increase in the minimum order quantity to something that only high volume retailers could take a chance on. This squeezed many of the smaller stores out of the picture. I don't know what that number was but I've talked to several camera shops that used to sell Pentax who told me they would have had to commit to far too much inventory in order to stay a dealer so they dropped out. Remember money tied up in inventory is not making you any money unless the inventory is moving. And if you had to borrow money to buy that inventory that's even worse.

[Bagga_Txips]

That was it - that minimum order quantity was so high. I think I remember it from back when Pentax were in cahoots with Samsung.

[ElJamoquio]

I don't think $20k is high. The problem is if you can't choose your inventory.

[jatrax]

I don't think $20k is high. The problem is if you can't choose your inventory.

Agree. That seems like a big number to the consumer, but think what it takes just to make a display of Pentax gear. Plus backup inventory in case you sell something.

An order might look like:
2 k-3 body only
2 k-3 18-135 kit
4 k-50 body only
4 k-50 18-55 kits
2 k-50 2 lens kits
4 k-50 18-135 kits
6 k-500 2 lens kits
2 each DA limiteds
2 each DA* lenses
1 DFA 100mm macro
1 da 12-24
4 da 35mm f/2.4
4 da 50mm f/1.8

Add that up, and see where you are. That's a big junk of money to ask someone to plunk down in the hope they will sell it and make money.

[EricBrown]

I was at my local camera store in the Washington, DC area, Photocraft. I posted before they carry Pentax again and they have good shelf space. As I was talking to one the salespeople, she said some comes in from Ricoh/Pentax on a regular basis, they were just in yesterday. She they have been very good recently about making sure small retailers are being taken care of by Ricoh. From a marketing perspective, Ricoh is head and shoulders above anything Hoya did. I think the Pentax brand is gaining some more traction and shelf space again in the US.

[stevebrot]

she said some comes in from Ricoh/Pentax on a regular basis, they were just in yesterday.

That is the key. I too have talked with local retailers over the last several years and Hoya fell flat in not servicing their accounts. The other area they fell flat in was the requirement that dealers front a huge amount of $$$ to carry the brand (i.e. must pre-purchase all stock). Ricoh appears to have taken a more rational approach.


Steve

[THoog]

That is the key. I too have talked with local retailers over the last several years and Hoya fell flat in not servicing their accounts. The other area they fell flat in was the requirement that dealers front a huge amount of $$$ to carry the brand (i.e. must pre-purchase all stock). Ricoh appears to have taken a more rational approach.

Given Hoya's focus on Medical imaging, perhaps the sales team was all out on the golf course? I know nothing about sales, but is the retail camera market anything like medical equipment?

[stevebrot]

but is the retail camera market anything like medical equipment?

No. In medical equipment you deal with physicians, administrators, and purchasing agents. Think junkets and free food. In retail camera, the situation is traditional B-to-B outside sales.


Steve

[THoog]

No. In medical equipment you deal with physicians, administrators, and purchasing agents. Think junkets and free food. In retail camera, the situation is traditional B-to-B outside sales.

Thanks, that's what I suspected. <Several snarky remarks about Pentax/Hoya USA written, then deleted.>