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10-30-2013, 05:19 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
The rumour I heard is the Hoya management ruined the relationship by demanding such large inventories and up-front money, the brand was dropped. Lots of fences for Ricoh to mend!
I've heard similar - rough sledding for JM and JC. We're very fortunate in St. Louis.

10-30-2013, 05:43 PM   #17
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1.5 km from my house. Small display of several bodies and lenses. One of the staff seems to know Pentax fairly well, and all the staff have been helpful and friendly. No issues with trying the display stock.

Ottawa has several stores that carry Pentax.

- Craig
10-30-2013, 05:47 PM   #18
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You can buy Pentax at Target (some of them)... but we've only got one small camera shop here, and they don't carry Pentax.
10-30-2013, 06:11 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
The rumour I heard is the Hoya management ruined the relationship by demanding such large inventories and up-front money, the brand was dropped.
Not really rumor, I've spoken to a number of owners at small town local camera shops. The story I was told was that the minimum order quantity was raised so high that they would have had to purchase a year or more's inventory at one time. The minimum order amount is always an issue between retailers and manufacturers/distributors. The distributor wants to ship big orders a couple of times a year to keep their picking and shipping costs low. Retailers want to order more often in lower quantities to keep their inventory dollars low and fresher. Hoya raising that too high forced a lot of small stores to just walk away.

I'm not sure about the "up front money", most small stores would have had to pay in 30 or maybe 60 days, bigger chains can negotiate better terms sometimes. I think this was a reason Ritz dropped them, but Ritz was already having cash flow issues so maybe that actually worked out. I think Nikon/Canon lost a bundle on them.

10-30-2013, 06:31 PM   #20
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OK!

Well, since you've chosen to take my last sentence apart as much as possible, allow me to return the favor. Two can play this game.
'Not really rumour' Yes, it was a rumour, since I didn't hear it first-hand or even second hand. I didn't hear it from a store employee, manager or anyone connected with Mike's camera, Ricoh Pentax or anyone in any official capacity. Hence...a rumour. It was a rumour to my source and I quoted it. You may (or may not) have better/more accurate or even incorrect information, but that doesn't change what he said or I quoted. But thanks for your attempted correction!
Two 'Up front money' That was the exact phrase my source used and I chose to repeat it, rather than try to extrapolate other rumours, information and/or sources to 'correct' it. I may not have used the phrase you prefer, but I did use the one I prefer, since it was quoted to me. I chose to be as accurate as my information allowed. Another chippy 'correction' that wasn't needed and seems trollish to me. I'll do this as long as you do.
Or, you can stop following me around, trying to dissect/correct/critique my every post?
Your turn.
Ron
10-30-2013, 06:44 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I'm not sure about the "up front money", most small stores would have had to pay in 30 or maybe 60 days, bigger chains can negotiate better terms sometimes. I think this was a reason Ritz dropped them, but Ritz was already having cash flow issues so maybe that actually worked out. I think Nikon/Canon lost a bundle on them.
The way I heard the story (same as Ron - third-party) Hoya really tightened the screws on Dealer Credit arrangements, even cancelling certain dealers so they had to pay cash to order (not the usual Invoice Due in 30 days).

FWIW, Pentax has been raising Dealer Minimums and tightening the volume breakpoints for 15 or 20 years. As they gradually lost Dealers they also gradually lost Reps to Nikon and Canon, who simply moved their relationships to their new employers' products. I had that directly from a Canon nee' Pentax Rep who gave me his collection of Pentax tchotchkes (how is that word spelled?) - including a mint KX belt buckle and a Spotmatic counter stand.

Pentax made most of this bed in the USA all by itself without any help from Hoya. JM isn't going to just change the sheets to Ricoh and fix the market in his first six months. I love the products and I'm pulling for Denver - and they're doing a lot of things right - but it will be a long, hard battle to regain good market share. My best guess is many of these dealers smile at Jim and then show him how to operate the door from the inside.

Last edited by monochrome; 11-03-2013 at 02:18 PM.
10-30-2013, 08:43 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The way I heard the story (same as Ron - third-party) Hoya really tightened the screws on Dealer Credit arrangements, even cancelling certain dealers so they had to pay cash to order (not the usual Invoice Due in 30 days).
Could be. I know the dealers I talked to were still mad at Pentax.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax made most of this bed in the USA all by itself without any help from Hoya. JM isn't going to just change the sheets to Ricoh and fix the market in his first six months. I love the products and I'm pulling for Denver - and they're doing a lot of things right - but it will be a long, hard battle to regain good market share. My best guess is many of these dealers smile at Jim and then show him how to operate the door from the inside.
Agree. I spent 30 years in retail and the hardest thing in the world to do is get back into a retailer after you parted ways. Shelf space, and mind share is at a premium and once that goes to another brand its really hard to get back. Generally the only way to do it is if the other guy screws up badly enough that the retailer is madder at him than you.

So, yeah, long hard road back. And the business has changed too, not as many little camera shops anymore so the ones left are even more important to manufacturers. I was in a shop in Seattle last month, just browsing for used lenses. No new Pentax gear at all but a ton of Canon/Nikon. They had a remarkable selection of used 645 and 67 lenses and a smaller selection of k-mount stuff. Chatted with one of the older salesmen who really seemed very knowledgeable about Pentax. I asked if they planned to carry the line again and his reply was "not likely".
10-30-2013, 08:50 PM   #23
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About 5 minutes from my house. I have another 3-4 less than 30 minutes

As you can most canadians have store who sell Pentax who is not realy far. Also any Fotosource dealer (Buying group) can get you any Pentax products still if they dont show up in their store or Web

10-30-2013, 08:51 PM   #24
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The only store in town here which carries Pentax is Tanguay .... the sellers don't know bug-all about their cameras and they still have a K5 in stock.
Some very "low grade" lenses and almost no other Pentax acessories.

Pity !

I remember having to show the seller how to use the K5 !

Now, I order all of my Pentax stuff from Henry's ... when they go "on sale" (if they ever do that).

JP
10-30-2013, 09:15 PM   #25
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5 stores, but probably more, 10 minutes from the house but the better ones are downtown. Pentax is still listed as large as Nikon and Canon above the counter in a number of them, but I've noticed this is waning

Years ago, I was convinced to come back to Pentax by stopping by the camera department of London Drugs to check out the latest Canons, to be sold on the K10d by the rep. I still see Pentax DLSRs commonly here, but they just don't seem to be marketed anymore. No incentive for local B&Ms anymore perhaps?, I don't know. No billboards, no mall displays, which were common. It's a shame to see Pentax abandon a market that was heavy into their brand.
10-31-2013, 02:24 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Primes4ever Quote
The best selection of lenses is at the Downtown Toronto Henry's store which is about 90km away. The local Henry's in Cambridge will always bring in most lenses as long as they are stocked, unfortunately the FA31 is a special order.

Normhead, if you want to try my FA31, just invite me up to Algonquin Park sometime if you dare. The FA 31 is worthy of your interest, I was lucky enough to find a used one at the Henry's Digital Imaging show.

For other Ontario people, check out Burlington Camera. They are a great independent store that gives great trades and I just picked up my K3 this afternoon. They regularly get in good lenses. Ask for Joan and she will tell you what they have currently. They have a basic website.
I would agree, Henry's, downtown camera, and perhaps Aden on yonge at college.

Henry's outlet in Mississauga is only 5 minutes away.

Virtually all the small shops are now closed, and blacks, owned by tellus is only canikon.
10-31-2013, 02:51 AM   #27
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About a ten-minute bike ride from my flat. Bonus is that they are also tend to be the cheapest or second-cheapest dealer in the country, and one of the sales people is a Pentax fanatic (apparently he's very active on the Dutch Pentax forum). This is a matter of luck, though; there aren't many Pentax dealers around here either. In fact, I can only think of two in the entire city.
10-31-2013, 03:20 AM   #28
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There are two stores in the Washington, DC area ePhoto Craft and Ace Photo. I get most of my gear from ePhoto Craft in Burke, VA about 10 miles from my place in Arlington, VA. The owner is a Pentax user and stopped carrying Pentax a few years ago. He started carrying a healthy line again about a year ago. I just picked up the WG-III and DA 50mm from there.

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10-31-2013, 07:20 AM   #29
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I live in the Seattle area.

There's a store over in Bellevue that stocks a few pieces of pentax gear. Depending on traffic that can be either a 20 minute or two hour drive. I went in once to check it out and have never gone back. They had a K30 and a 55-300 in stock. They were friendly and offered to order me anything I wanted but it's actually faster to order from Adorama or B&H.

I try to rent lenses before I buy them if I can. CameraLensRental.com has been a life saver on that front.

I buy non-pentax specific gear from a shop that's just a few miles away.

Frys and Costco both offer Pentax gear on their websites but neither ever seem to have any in stock in the stores in my area.
10-31-2013, 07:31 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My nearest is 10 kms away and I can order anything Pentax there, a Pentax rep drops in regularly and delivers camera gear personally sometimes if it' been ordered, but where I go when I want something above consumer grade is Henry's in Toronto.

The last time was in the Pentax section was pretty small compared to Canikon displays, but they did have a section with all current bodies and point and shoots, with at least 12 lens, open on the shelf (already out of the boxes) that you could put on your camera and try out. They didn't have the FA 31 ltd. I wanted to see, but they had all the lower end lenses and a smattering of high end lenses.

I'm wondering, who has a better place to shop Pentax? ANd what's the best you've got if you want to look at the camera in the flesh?
The nearest store to me with Pentax is in St. John's, Newfoundland, only a few kilometres away. However, the owner is so disillusioned with Pentax's lack of marketing that he vowed not to get any new models until he sells his existing stock of bodies. That stock consists of 2 K-r kits with the DA 18-55mm for $699 per kit (that's his sale price!). The stock is so old that I think it predates the WR and the DA L versions of that lens. He never bothered to stock the K-30, K-5, K-01, X-50, or MX-1, much less the newer models. This is despite the fact that he freely admits that Pentax makes better built bodies than comparable offerings from Canon or Nikon, that the K-5 was a great camera, and that the K-3 looks like it will be even better. However, the customers won't even entertain the thought of trying a Pentax (except maybe the WG series) For a DSLR, ultra-zoom or point-and-shoot they want the brand the have seen in marketing or in the hands of friends and relatives, i.e., every other company but Pentax.

The other store with Pentax is an outlet of the Henry's chain. They carry small stock of the current models of bodies and three or four of the best selling lens models -- in the farthest corner of the store under glass in the counter -- not at eye level behind the counter. That store can't give away Pentax either -- they only carry it because it's subsidized by the chain.

The fact that stores in Canada only list the MSRP (except Prodigital) doesn't help. The sale price in Canada is the regular price in the U.S.

The medium isn't the message. It's the marketing.
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