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11-02-2013, 08:53 AM   #16
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I'm comfortable with the mode dial as is, but also see where Stickler is coming from.

If I made any change to my K-30, it would be to improve the exposure compensation function. The idea of pressing a button and changing the function of the rear wheel from aperture (in several modes) to exposure compensation is counter intuitive when think time is at a premium. A rocker switch would solve that issue and still allow for fast zeroing using the green button.

I can also see the benefit of moving the mode dial to the left side of the camera like the k-5/3. Too many times while concentrating at the viewfinder, I have bumped the mode dial when I intended to adjust the aperture.

11-05-2013, 08:26 AM   #17
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I was asking for 3 control dials and the new N!kon has no less than 6... everything I was asking for (except video button :^J ), and a couple of spare dials too (including the PSAM)... maybe I want to take back my concept, (also, they've done the controls so horribly bad with the left side locking controls, unless this is only a tripod camera.) Pity, it worked so well in my head.
11-05-2013, 11:27 AM   #18
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I can see three dials working with a few tweaks. Mainly, make the dials pressable -- turn the dial one way or the other for manual control, press it in to make that parameter automatic. It'd essentially make hyper mode the normal way to operate the camera.

Aperture: turn to set the f-stop, press for A mode.
Sensitivity: turn to set the ISO speed, press for auto ISO.
Shutter: turn to set the exposure time, press for auto exposure. Press and turn left for X mode, press and turn right for B mode.
Press the green button to reset all dials to auto. Press the red button for movie mode.
That just leaves SCN, U1 and U2 (at least on a K-50) on the mode dial, which could then be moved to LCD options.
11-05-2013, 11:44 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by aremmes Quote
I can see three dials working with a few tweaks. Mainly, make the dials pressable -- turn the dial one way or the other for manual control, press it in to make that parameter automatic. It'd essentially make hyper mode the normal way to operate the camera.

Aperture: turn to set the f-stop, press for A mode.
Sensitivity: turn to set the ISO speed, press for auto ISO.
Shutter: turn to set the exposure time, press for auto exposure. Press and turn left for X mode, press and turn right for B mode.
Press the green button to reset all dials to auto. Press the red button for movie mode.
That just leaves SCN, U1 and U2 (at least on a K-50) on the mode dial, which could then be moved to LCD options.
I like that controls idea (though at times those push wheels can be a pain for push+turn controls). it also allows for quick shift to auto value by pressing and then shift manually from there. being able to lock setting or determine settings might present an ergonomic challenge.

SCN is handled when you set something to "Auto" then it brings up a scene selection on the LCD as logically appropriate for dial settings, doing nothing maintains a saved value or a most recent value. When you press the green button to return to "full auto" then LCD allows USER settings as an option.

11-05-2013, 12:14 PM   #20
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You could lock each individual setting to the currently computed or selected value by pressing and holding its corresponding dial for, say, one second. Pressing and holding the green button for an equivalent period could lock all parameters simultaneously. You'd then not need the AF/AE-L button either; the other function of that button is already handled by the shutter release button and the AF/C/MF switch.
11-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by aremmes Quote
I can see three dials working with a few tweaks. Mainly, make the dials pressable -- turn the dial one way or the other for manual control, press it in to make that parameter automatic. It'd essentially make hyper mode the normal way to operate the camera.

Aperture: turn to set the f-stop, press for A mode.
Sensitivity: turn to set the ISO speed, press for auto ISO.
Shutter: turn to set the exposure time, press for auto exposure. Press and turn left for X mode, press and turn right for B mode.
Press the green button to reset all dials to auto. Press the red button for movie mode.
That just leaves SCN, U1 and U2 (at least on a K-50) on the mode dial, which could then be moved to LCD options.
This will cripple the camera more than today.
- You would loose Hyper-P, because if you are in full auto and change aperture you would enter Av-mode, and if you change shutter speed in Av-mode you would end up in M (or TAv), not Tv. You would have to switch aperture dial back to auto to enter Tv-mode. So it will require one extra step to switch between Av and Tv compared to Hyper-P.
- The green button has to do different things depending on what mode you use. Fi you might not want the camera to switch to full auto if you press the green button in manual mode.
11-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #22
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Does the TAv mode render M mode obsolete? I think M is simply TAv with a fixed ISO or am I missing a nuance?
11-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #23
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I think so, TAv you set aperture and shutter and Sensitivity (ISO) is camera auto control.

11-06-2013, 10:58 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Does the TAv mode render M mode obsolete? I think M is simply TAv with a fixed ISO or am I missing a nuance?
I like them being two distinct modes, so I know that in M-mode I always have all settings manual and there is no easy way to switch to auto (TAv, Av or Tv) by accident.
11-07-2013, 12:28 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stickler Quote
Is the PSAM dial a vestigial control of the film era?
Hard to say. I don't have a single film camera with a PSAM dial. I know that some were made (e.g. the last generations of Pentax), but that was a artifact of the having the control dials for aperture and shutter speed.


Steve

(...and I have dozens of film cameras...)
11-07-2013, 12:32 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
- You would loose Hyper-P
Never use it...

Nice feature, but to be honest, I generally know the shutter speed or aperture I prefer before bringing the camera to eye and use Av or Tv as is appropriate.


Steve

(...OK, I do use it rarely, but not that often...)
11-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stickler Quote
Is the PSAM dial a vestigial control of the film era?
I would say yes. The mode dial started out as a shutter speed control. When exposure automation started, designers adapted it to control various types of automated exposure. Take a look at the Pentax Super A/Super Program-
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/8-pentax-film-slr-discussion/61249-pentax...r-program.html

The former shutter speed selection became an exposure type control and up/down buttons added to shutter speed control.
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