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11-10-2013, 01:33 PM   #16
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The reason is Facebook, Pinterest. Instant gratification. Every body carry a camera with them all the time . Look around you and you will understand

11-10-2013, 01:51 PM   #17
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I don't buy it. Maybe bottom end SLRs are hurt a little by cell phone cameras, but the big issue is that there isn't a driving feature (better sensor performance, or whatever) that will drive people to upgrade their current, decent camera. If you have a D7000, why do you even look at the D7100? More megapixels, better auto focus is the answer that Nikon gives, but I don't think a lot of photographers feel particularly driven to upgrade. Meaning that people will shoot with their current cameras longer.

I just don't buy the idea that someone who is interested in a D800 or a K3 is going to settle for a cell phone camera and be pleased.
11-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #18
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Well, if you go back ~5-10years, P&S phones were 'decent', cell phone cameras were crap, and SLR's ruled, sDSLR's were relatively new.

People that wanted a camera typically bought a P&S like a Canon ELF, Fuji Fixepix, etc. Almost all of that functionality (with the exception of zoom) has been passed onto phablets.
Those that want better performance will still opt for an SLR or high end P&S. The problem is - many have taken the convenience factor - phablets are 'good enough' for most, and that has pretty much killed the P&S market, and erroded the bottom end of the 'current' SLR market.

This market really didn't exist as a large market until 5-10 years ago either. If it wasn't for dSLR, many would have stayed on P&S. dSLR made effectively a better P&S ('auto mode') and allowed those that wanted to learn a path. Its business - and dSLR will be relevant for a long time - but the consumer market is always a tough battle. Think of the changes between PC, laptop, tablet and smartphone. PC's are a dying breed, as laptops offer similar performance + portability. Tablets in many cases are killing both - as many consumers don't need all of the features (anymore).

Professionals will still need professional quality gear, and a tablet / cellphone won't do.

I upgraded from Fuji Fixepix P&S 'superzoom' for a few reasons.

1. I couldn't take sports/action pictures (5 pix in a row - then wait a minute wouldn't suffice)
2. Slow to zoom
3. Slow to focus
4. Poor low light usability.

The quality of the pictures was decent, however, it wouldn't do what I needed. Since a replacement P&S at the time was at least $200-$300, and the Pentax K-x was $450 including lens - I took the plunge.
Many of those items (except #1 and #2) are not an issue in most modern P&S, and even some phabets. I still do see a LOT of Canikony's around here - even if ~75% of the population has a phablet. Those that still want to capture moving subjects, or have a high zoom still can't get those features today outside of a superzoom P&S or a dSLR.

It really depends on what the consumer wants, is willing to pay for.

Last edited by formercanuck; 11-10-2013 at 02:51 PM.
11-10-2013, 04:11 PM   #19
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I like to shoot fast things. Race boats, race cars, airplanes etc. P&S's and cell phone cameras suck for what I like to shoot. dSLR is the best way that I have found to get those type of shots. I'm also pretty picky about how good things look. My K200D may be older but it still serves me well.

11-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
SLR lenses/cameras are a large piece (volume) of these businesses
And smartphone cameras have nothing to do with the professional/hobbyist market for interchangeable lenses. I know the number of professional photographers is declining (at an alarming rate, IMHO) and it isn't because the general public is taking up photography as a hobby. People don't have more time in their lives, so the additional time we spend online is time we don't have for hobbies. There is very little status attached to owning serious camera equipment these days, so the fad market isn't there either. The first autofocus SLR's came out in the early '80's, and the variety of lens types hasn't changed much either. Put it all together, no new demand from amateurs, declining professional market and no fashion staement, and third party lens manufacturers are in deep trouble. At least the body manufacturers can always sell upgrades to existing customers, but unless some killer, never seen the likes of before, lenses come on the market, you are stuck with the few old duffers like myself who just made the move from film to digital a year ago (and only because my wife's friend is a Pentax rep, and my K-30 was a birthday present). Quality lenses last for decades, my SMC A 70-210 is still in my camera bag, so there isn't even much of a replacement business. Basically, the future for Tamron and Sigma is to build private label kit lenses for prosumer camera manufacturers. Bleak, but if Tamron executives really think smartphones have anything to do with their business future, they are really in trouble.
11-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
A People don't have more time in their lives, so the additional time we spend online is time we don't have for hobbies. There is very little status attached to owning serious camera equipment these days, so the fad market isn't there either.
This is a very true statement - just as their is a fight for the 'disposable income' for items such as cameras, tablets, entertainment, sports, etc. There is also a struggle for the available time for just about anything. Online social lives and entertainment have taken a large percentage of many people's lives - and in general - with the state of the rat race - time is a very scarce commodity for the average person. Photography - and many hobbies in general have taken a back seat.
11-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by kkoether Quote
I like to shoot fast things. Race boats, race cars, airplanes etc. P&S's and cell phone cameras suck for what I like to shoot. dSLR is the best way that I have found to get those type of shots. I'm also pretty picky about how good things look. My K200D may be older but it still serves me well.

Amen Brother...... Own a K-30
11-13-2013, 07:18 PM   #23
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Such statistics could also be an influence on the emergence of the new "Retro" looking body trends from various camera manufacturers . like Nikon and Olympus and even Sony.

11-14-2013, 07:02 AM   #24
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I feel the sensor size war is the culprit. I forsee 1 inch to be the new compact standard. And mobile phones to have at least 1/23 or larger. Sony saw this coming with their range of products. But early adopters will have to be the Guinea pig.
11-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #25
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The WSJ (below) also ran a story about falling DSLR sales. The SLR biggest issue is its bulk vs, a phone. I think most people are shooting for fun and the moment, not for sales or to exhibit.

I would think that the mirror-less SLRs would be a good option for the smartphone set.

High-End Cameras Fall Prey to Smartphones - WSJ.com
11-15-2013, 01:01 PM   #26
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In my mind the smartphone / P&S crowd has pocket-able cameras, more or less.

Mirrorless cameras (what's a mirrorless SLR? ) aren't pocketable.


DSLR sales are projected to be flat in my view... and it's still just a projection, so I wouldn't get too worried yet.


11-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #27
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Just look at these chart from Flickr, it's easy to extrapolate that for the average person who take photo: compact camera are dying , DSLR are flat and phone are gaining . Sorry but that the reality.
http://www.flickr.com/cameras
11-16-2013, 11:42 AM   #28
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I think it is safe to say that all digital cameras are losing ground due to cell phone sales as well as the huge installed base of previously sold product.

The reason people buy anything is because their current solution does not exist or does not meet their need as well as they would like (yes, that includes the need for "new"). For many, many people who would be potential market for a low-end dSLR (e.g. Canon Rebel), their need is very nicely met by a phone cam. I consider my phone to be a credible tool and have done some pretty decent work with its camera.

For those with doubts, simply look at the cell phone thread on this site or maybe look at my Flickr images from my Samsung Infuse 4g.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/170927-phone-club.html

Flickr Search: samsung


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11-16-2013, 08:42 PM   #29
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I have a 6MP camera on my phone and on my tablet. Either one I will use in a pinch if I have nothing else with me but for real photography, no, just no. I like my 12MP M43 cam too but it has it's drawbacks, chief of which I apparently need a VF to use it well and I still can't really afford one just now. But it could never replace my DSLR's for the serious photography. Not at all.
11-16-2013, 09:14 PM - 1 Like   #30
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I dare ANYONE to catch these with a cell phone!!!





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