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04-07-2008, 11:28 AM   #31
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The K100D does a better job of metering when using full manual lenses. That's something you should consider since you want to want to use your old lenses.

04-07-2008, 11:29 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
I too just my first DSLR about 2 weeks ago. I got the K10D. It is less expensive than the K200D and it is more camera than the K100D. It looks so pro it isn't funny. I love it! It's a little daunting at first but work with it and you will love it.
lol it does look pretty pro... esp with the grip and a nice fat lens attached.
04-07-2008, 02:42 PM   #33
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I really wish I could find these magical places that sell K10Ds for less than the K200D.

I got my K200D with 18-55 priority shipped for $725. I have yet to see just a K10 body that cheap.
04-07-2008, 02:56 PM   #34
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They probably don't exist cputeq,
The K10D is an advanced camera priced to match.
I quoted a price that it goes for secondhand within the forum - you won't find it for that price brand new anywhere.

The battery grip sure does add to the look of the camera - many people stop in their tracks when they see me (a short, small build bloke) carry around the combo, saying things like "oooh, you have such a biiiig camera!"

But seriously, it's a good idea to begin with K10D if you have a view of upgrading to the K20D in the future...

04-07-2008, 05:23 PM   #35
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I have the the K100D as well and can't say enough about its capabilities. I got back into the photo hobby recently and did some research and counted my beans and felt it gave me the best flexibility for the price. There is so much I'm learning with this camera and so much more to learn (mostly what this technology can do as compared to the old manual slr I had). The K10 and up are certainly interesting, but what goes up also usually has cost. It creates a larger file size (is your computer stressed already?) The other consideration is that you will probably need a larger, faster SD card to hold and process the new file sizes. The K100D doesn't place as large a demand on your computing resources and allows for more pictures on the SD card as compared to the K10 and up. Sorry for the rambling, but for me, a novice to the Dslr camera thing, it produces damn fine pictures and keeps me busy figuring out the options. Good luck on your choice.
04-08-2008, 05:46 AM   #36
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K10D w. Lens Kit - $726.95 includes shipping
Pentax K10D 10.2 Megapixel SLR Digital Camera Kit with Pentax Zoom Super Wide Angle SMCP-DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL Autofocus Lens

K10D Body only - $669.79 includes shipping
Pentax K-10D 10.2 MEGAPIXEL, 2.5 INCH LCD, SR SHAKE REDUCTION DIGITAL SLR CAMERA BODY, Pentax K10D, 19091
04-08-2008, 08:07 AM   #37
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k10d too sexy to resist ? ...Caution!

QuoteOriginally posted by Aperture Quote
Again, I would like to thank everyone for the great input, it has definitely helped me make this decision.

I am sure there is some debate around this, but after reading for a month or more I decided I wanted the “classic” 6MP APS-C CCD sensor today, and the 14MP CMOS sensor in the future. Yes, I am shying away from the 10MP APS-C CCD in the K200 and K10D.
apparently, Aperture has made up his mind and I personally think he has made a fine and wise choice. (I would opt for the k100ds for the shake reduction and sdm lenses compatibility, if ever i can afford them).

this thread is getting very long (and tiresome) but i still feel strongly enough to add my 2 cents for those who are still pondering over the choice between k100ds/k10d/k200d

for the casual shooter/hobbyist who is tempted to get the k10d at the current clearance price , CAUTION ! ...

speaking from my own experience as a k100d owner for the past year and a new k10d owner for a week, i would say k10d is more suitable for enthusiasts who ...

a/ prefer to shoot in RAW as their primary format
b/ accustomed to digital darkroom tweaking

for the casual shooters who would like to shoot away for reliable JPEG quality and the freedom to use iso range between 200 and 800 for flexibility, k100ds is a better choice hands down.

as a new owner of the k10d, i have been unpleasantly surprised by the noticeable noise level from iso 200 onwards! (even at iso 100, some hint of noise can be found in the dimmer areas)

k100d on the other hand stays very clean up to iso 400, and iso 800 is an acceptable compromise for more challenging lighting

given the raving reviews, awards, and positive endorsement by many happy users on the internet, i was quite taken aback that no one pointed it out as an issue before , thinking that i have bought a defective machine.

i posted comparison JPEG shots for k100d and k10d on the net yesterday seeking advice if my machine has a problem, the general responses are :

a/ the noise level is what to be expected for k10d
b/ a k10d user is better off shooting in RAW, the general preference for enthususiasts.

if you are interested, you can see the shots in my chinese thread (photos are marked for model , iso, etc so you know what you are looking at ... ??k10d, ????????????????????????? - Pentax Fans Club

well, many happy k10d users would tell you that the noise is generally not noticeable in size-down version for web browsing or prints under a4 size, which is true ... but i still find them a pain on my screen.

another point to note, and others have pointed it out in older threads, is that k10d has a much tighter tolerance for highlights. Some have complained that the metering of k10d is customarily under for 1/3 ev and i suspect that it maybe intentional by default.

my early experience with the k10d is that a 1/3 ev discrepancy in jpeg can make a significant difference to the image quality, challenging the photographer to be more critical and precise in judging exposure "sweet point" from the lcd monitor ( takes a learning curve since the screen inevitably shows the contrast very differently from what you see in the big screen when loaded in your pc).

so, be prepare for lots of bracketing, and, again, better off shoot in RAW where you have more ability to correct highlights errors.

other points to consider for k10d:

Pro

1/ because of its positioning, k10d could be a better build compared to k100ds/k200d, more seal points and more robust maybe. (the main reason that i have sort-of "upgraded" to the k10d is that i have dropped my k100d from waist height and went dead while the body only showed a small scratch... turned out the main board socket was crashed during the fall and required a replacement ... so have my reservation about the robustness of the build)

2/ more dials for direct access vs menu operations (the additional front dials can be a blessing but i often accidentally turn it when i try to push the digital preview lever)

Cons

1/ k10d is known for focus shift issues for different lenses and it has become a first check for every knowledgeable new owner in my part of the world (Taiwan and China). Of course you can send it back to the dealer for adjustment, though not before you have done your own tiresome test yourself.

Alternatively, you can try to make the correction yourself if your firmware version is 1.10 by entering into hidden debug mode (instructions only found in forums and not officially from Pentax). If your machine is v1.3, no debug mode by default and you have to seek additional remedy on the internet to crack this.

focus shift issues are known to other models and brand as well, so not unique to k10d, but still a hassle for the new owner.

Maybe Cons

1/ the slightly different grip between the k10d and k100d/k200d make a difference to me ... while the k10d grip is fatter and suggest better fitted for bigger hands, in reality, the k100d has deeper finger groove which can be held more securely for my long fingers ... so try it out to see which is a better fit for you.

Well, there are other significant advantages k10d holds over k100d, most noticeably the white balance controls, but all of these advantages has been wiped out by k200d, which also has the added real benefits of expanded dynamic range (to compensate for the highlight sensitivity of the k10d) and the focus adjustment for lenses (addressing the focus shift issue)!

All in all, for those who can be intimidated by the k10d, the k100ds is really a steal at their price now, or you should take a hard look at the k200d for noise performance improvement (which i have no knowledge whatsoever) before jumping in bed with the k10d for all its sexy appeals.
04-08-2008, 10:51 AM   #38
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2 vendors that I have NOT had a good experience with. Your Mileage May Vary.

04-08-2008, 11:17 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by dhulsmeyer Quote
lol it does look pretty pro... esp with the grip and a nice fat lens attached.
INDEED IT DOES...

Watch amazon. I got my K10D with lens for $735. I haven't see it that low since and I guess B&H have discontinued the K10D. watch amazon and if you are a prime member only 3.99 for next day shipping.. You gotta love amazon!

Last edited by madisonphotogrl; 04-08-2008 at 11:25 AM.
04-08-2008, 12:45 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
INDEED IT DOES...

Watch amazon. I got my K10D with lens for $735. I haven't see it that low since and I guess B&H have discontinued the K10D. watch amazon and if you are a prime member only 3.99 for next day shipping.. You gotta love amazon!
My k200d just arrived and just looking at the manual, there is no way it replaced the k100d, too many extra new features to figure out. It also seems to have a better grip on the left side of the cam (more rugged) I don't think I'm gonna miss the 3200 ISO setting
.. I love the way it has a scene mode for food. LOL Madison, Amazon shipped mine fairly quick on free option. I just ordered the body so basically it was the same price as your K10.
04-08-2008, 01:51 PM   #41
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Congrats shutterpuppy,
Good to hear you're pleased with it.
Does the food scene mode also record the aroma of the food?
04-08-2008, 04:56 PM   #42
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Scratch-and-sniff photos would absolutely rule
04-08-2008, 06:25 PM   #43
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Great post badbrother, you have vocalized many of my decision points, particularly around the high ISO noise issue.

Also, as dhulsmeyer pointed out, the better job of metering when using full manual lenses was very important to me. Using my SMC-M lenses on the K110D feels rather “automatic” after using an MX for 30 years. (My thumb still moves after pressing the shutter release)

I would have preferred the K100DS, but they were getting harder to find, and the low price on the new K110D (last one in the store NIB) was extraordinary.

As egordon99 noted, the K20D images are really amazing, and the noise issue appears to be rectified, so after reading the forthcoming reviews over the next year, a K20D is likely my next body purchase.
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