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View Poll Results: Pls vote for the best quality image and the worst one!
Best: The Toppest One 1854.55%
Best: The 2nd Toppest One 618.18%
Best: The 3rd Toppest One 824.24%
Best: The Bottom One 13.03%
Worst: The Toppest One 26.06%
Worst: The 2nd Toppest One 515.15%
Worst: The 3rd Toppest One 13.03%
Worst: The Bottom One 2575.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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01-18-2007, 06:55 PM   #1
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Let's play an interesting game!

First, carefully look at and inspect thoroughly the four playing cards of the Queen:-

Re: Lets nail this once and for all: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Then, complete the poll by strictly following the game rules as below:-

1. Make two votes by your best judgement, for what you think about the card which has the best image quality of the Queen and the worst image quality of the Queen. Image quality means good image fidelity, resolution, color rendition and etc. but at the same time with least digital artifacts or any other undesirable things;

2. Be honest to yourself and be honest to the forum (so that the poll results can be and will be the most accurate), don't try to find out anything about the card images anywhere before you complete the poll;

3. If you do know something about the card images, you still can complete the poll, *as long as* you input results that *had been judged* by you *before* you knew anything about the cards!

Okay, let's start!

01-18-2007, 07:51 PM   #2
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In my opinion picture fragment chosen for compatison isn't good. Just a few solid colours, no colour transition... Also I can't decide about colour rendition because I have no clue how those colors look on the real card. And my monitor at work isn't calibrated.

I chose second as best. It isn't the sharpest one, however texture is clearly the best, this is the only picture I can distinguish top edge of the card.

Bottom one is the worst for me. Colours seems off, least sharp and no texture.

1 and 3 in between. 1 is oversharpened for me (it is definately not Pentax), 3 sharpening is to my taste, however texture is completely lost...

However I would be much happier If I would be able to compare some portrait shots, skin tones are very important and sometimes tricky for cameras to portray them well.

Last edited by Edvinas; 01-18-2007 at 07:57 PM.
01-18-2007, 07:55 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
In my opinion picture fragment chosen for compatison isn't good. Just a few solid colours, no colour transition... Also I can't decide about colour rendition because I have no clue how those colors look on the real card. And my monitor at work isn't calibrated.

I chose second as best. It isn't the sharpest one, however texture is clearly the best, this is the only picture I can distinguish top edge of the card.

Bottom one is the worst for me. Colours seems off, least sharp and no texture.

1 and 3 in between.

However I would be much happier If I would be able to compare some portrait shots, skin tones are very important and sometimes tricky for cameras to portray them well.
Agreed, but the playing card full size crop is similar to a resolution chart, but which has also colors and is a bit even more complicated in pattern.

Anyway, it's an interesting shootout side-by-side and head-to-head!
01-18-2007, 08:09 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Agreed, but the playing card full size crop is similar to a resolution chart, but which has also colors and is a bit even more complicated in pattern.

Anyway, it's an interesting shootout side-by-side and head-to-head!
But does it show the cameras' capabilities or the tester's focus abilities? And do the colors show the accuracy of the sensor or the lens?

01-18-2007, 09:53 PM   #5
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It depends what you base your judgements on, the card sharpness (which can easily be PP anyway) or the texture detail on the wall, which I don't know how well it can be fixed in PP..

The second one is the only one I can clearly see the top edge of the card and has the most texture in the wall - BEST

The second last I can't see the top edge of the card at all, it and the wall have become one (at least on my work monitor)... And the wall seems to have no detail in it at all... - WORST
01-18-2007, 10:07 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
It depends what you base your judgements on, the card sharpness (which can easily be PP anyway) or the texture detail on the wall, which I don't know how well it can be fixed in PP..

The second one is the only one I can clearly see the top edge of the card and has the most texture in the wall - BEST

The second last I can't see the top edge of the card at all, it and the wall have become one (at least on my work monitor)... And the wall seems to have no detail in it at all... - WORST
Do note that the *target*/subject/object is the playing card, NOT its pale white background!

I just wonder why certain people particularly would look and emphasize on that little portion of the background and then commented on the image quality (solely based on that little part)!(?)

Also, one must also note that basically PP is not an aids to correct problems (it can of course, e.g., for lens distortion and CA, but I'm sure one that no photographer want to do that unless these problems are so obvious and spoil the pics).

In contrast, PP is aimed for making more impressive looking pics, but it can by NO means to re-build those lost pic data.
01-18-2007, 10:32 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Do note that the *target*/subject/object is the playing card, NOT its pale white background!
If the playing card is the subject then the indistinguishable top edge of the card in some of the shots is affecting the subject, is it not?

BTW only in your favourite picture is the background "Pale", in the one I picked it has a lot of detail.. ;-)

QuoteQuote:
I just wonder why certain people particularly would look and emphasize on that little portion of the background and then commented on the image quality (solely based on that little part)!(?)
But your solely basing your judgement on in camera applied edge sharpening..

QuoteQuote:
Also, one must also note that basically PP is not an aids to correct problems
But in-camera-processing has made the other pics 'look' better in a more obvious (at first glance) way.. And PP cannot save the texture detail they lost.. There is a difference between edge sharpening applied in camera and the amount of texture detail captured.. I prefer the later, you prefer the earlier, do we have to agree on everything????

QuoteQuote:
In contrast, PP is aimed for making more impressive looking pics, but it can by NO means to re-build those lost pic data.
Thats right it cannot bring back the top edge of the card which has blended to the background, nor can it bring back lost texture detail in the wall.. But it can help with edge sharpening... Of course with Pentax you can shoot RAW and get both as Pentax has IMO the best RAW output of the 10mp DSLRs.. The quality of the JPEG is very subjective, and has its strengths and weaknesss..

Last edited by joele; 01-18-2007 at 10:43 PM.
01-18-2007, 11:20 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
But your solely basing your judgement on in camera applied edge sharpening..
Nope. I made my judgement based on the image with most details of the Queen, more solid colors but with the least artifacts. I DID know nothing about which image was from/by which before I decided on the ranking.

QuoteQuote:
But in-camera-processing has made the other pics 'look' better in a more obvious (at first glance) way.. And PP cannot save the texture detail they lost.. There is a difference between edge sharpening applied in camera and the amount of texture detail captured.. I prefer the later, you prefer the earlier, do we have to agree on everything????
Of course, we do not need to agree on everything (well, it seems that we often disagree on almost everything :-)). That's what the purpose of my poll is for (to see how the population will judge on the image quality of those pics of the same object).

Do note that I did not judge at the first glance, I did carefully inspect those pics before decided.

[/QUOTE]
Thats right it cannot bring back the top edge of the card which has blended to the background, nor can it bring back lost texture detail in the wall.. But it can help with edge sharpening... Of course with Pentax you can shoot RAW and get both as Pentax has IMO the best RAW output of the 10mp DSLRs.. The quality of the JPEG is very subjective, and has its strengths and weaknesss..[QUOTE]

My opinion is simply that it is not the main part of the picture nor the object. So I wonder bother. Just say if Phil Asky removed the Queen playing card and shot his wall, I would judge on the wall (texture and details)

Do note also again that I didn't know which picture was from/by the Pentax before I made up my mind. So, this is what I have been emphasizing in my opening post. I do hope anyone who participates in this poll do do the same, too.

01-18-2007, 11:20 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
But your solely basing your judgement on in camera applied edge sharpening..
Nope. I made my judgement based on the image with most details of the Queen, more solid colors but with the least artifacts. I DID know nothing about which image was from/by which before I decided on the ranking.

QuoteQuote:
But in-camera-processing has made the other pics 'look' better in a more obvious (at first glance) way.. And PP cannot save the texture detail they lost.. There is a difference between edge sharpening applied in camera and the amount of texture detail captured.. I prefer the later, you prefer the earlier, do we have to agree on everything????
Of course, we do not need to agree on everything (well, it seems that we often disagree on almost everything :-)). That's what the purpose of my poll is for (to see how the population will judge on the image quality of those pics of the same object).

Do note that I did not judge at the first glance, I did carefully inspect those pics before decided.

QuoteQuote:
Thats right it cannot bring back the top edge of the card which has blended to the background, nor can it bring back lost texture detail in the wall.. But it can help with edge sharpening... Of course with Pentax you can shoot RAW and get both as Pentax has IMO the best RAW output of the 10mp DSLRs.. The quality of the JPEG is very subjective, and has its strengths and weaknesss..
My opinion is simply that it is not the main part of the picture nor the object. So I wonder bother. Just say if Phil Asky removed the Queen playing card and shot his wall, I would judge on the wall (texture and details)

Do note also again that I didn't know which picture was from/by the Pentax before I made up my mind. So, this is what I have been emphasizing in my opening post. I do hope anyone who participates in this poll do do the same, too.
01-18-2007, 11:22 PM   #10
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I judged the pictures without reading which is which, when I read the original post on dpreview... my decision was the same.. ;-)

The wall (backdrop) is part of the subject, in fact the orginal picture is just a massive collection of subjects shot at f8 I believe.. So all the items, including the wall, should be included in the judgement IMO not just one of the items (tha card)...

Last edited by joele; 01-18-2007 at 11:27 PM.
01-18-2007, 11:38 PM   #11
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Okay, Joele, thanks for your clarifcations. I think we have to agree to disagree (regarding our judgement, and, preference)! :-)

QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
I judged the pictures without reading which is which, when I read the original post on dpreview... my decision was the same.. ;-)

The wall (backdrop) is part of the subject, in fact the orginal picture is just a massive collection of subjects shot at f8 I believe.. So all the items, including the wall, should be included in the judgement IMO not just one of the items (tha card)...
01-19-2007, 01:18 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
But does it show the cameras' capabilities or the tester's focus abilities? And do the colors show the accuracy of the sensor or the lens?
All, I suppose, except for the tester's focus abilities of whom I do believe Phil Askey knows very very well (than most of the persons on this planet) how to use a camera, in technical sense and I guess he used AF too.

Afterall, all the accuracy is about the camera under test itself and teh results do show about the overall accuracy of the camera.
01-19-2007, 06:15 AM   #13
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Interesting - I'm not quite sure what it shows, though. Depending on what I decided was most important, I could have made different choices. And I'm not sure what this tells us about how these cameras would each reproduce a more ordinary subject (e.g. a person or a landscape). I suspect that the first one, with its very punchy colours and high contrast, would be great for scenes with punchy, contrasty colours, but make people's faces look garish. The others would all be better suited for portraiture. Perhaps what this has demonstrated is that you should choose your camera based on features you need and ergonomics, not test photos of playing cards.

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01-20-2007, 07:30 AM   #14
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In graduate school, we used to refer to statistics as the "bitch/goddess" of history because you could use the same numbers to reach different conclusions. With that said, now that the voting has occured, anyone care to summarize the results, as limited as they are?
Which card were taken by which camera/lens, etc....
01-20-2007, 09:49 AM   #15
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Nope, not a chance; minefield!
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