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Swift1 · 08-14-2020, 11:38 AM - **11 Likes**

Pentax K10D
SMC Pentax-DA 16-45mm f/4

**GerryM** · 08-14-2020, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Swift1

Pentax K10D
SMC Pentax-DA 16-45mm f/4

Great shot, Colton!

Swift1 · 08-14-2020, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by GerryM

Great shot, Colton!

Thanks my friend.

**subsea** · 08-14-2020, 12:42 PM - **4 Likes**

Warped floors in York, England, in 2013. K-10D and FA 28-80mm.

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**pbancr** · 08-14-2020, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by subsea

Warped floors in York, England, in 2013. K-10D and FA 28-80mm.

Yikes! Wonder what it looks like today!

**RussV** · 08-14-2020, 01:51 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pbancr

Yikes! Wonder what it looks like today!

Its probably still there in the same condition and listed, which means it has to be preserved, as is, by law. It probably dates from at least the 16th century. I have to admit it does look a bit rickety!

**subsea** · 08-14-2020, 02:09 PM

If I remember correctly, the building was part of the National Trust (kind of like a Historical Landmark in the US) and couldn't be modified without government permission. As Russ says, I have no doubt that it's still there, still looking like it's about to fall down!

Racer X 69 · 08-14-2020, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by subsea

If I remember correctly, the building was part of the National Trust (kind of like a Historical Landmark in the US) and couldn't be modified without government permission. As Russ says, I have no doubt that it's still there, still looking like it's about to fall down!

You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it.

**subsea** · 08-14-2020, 11:02 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it.

But then it would lose its charm!

**BigMackCam** · 08-14-2020, 11:45 PM - **6 Likes**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it.

It's rather like antique furniture... originality is preferred over perfection wherever possible. If a 17th century table has flaws and imperfections that occurred during the 18th century, good collectors and restorers will strive to retain them - but if the legs are unstable such that the table can't be used, sympathetic repairs will be made to strengthen the structure whilst minimising visual impact. Given the age of that building, its a safe bet that it has looked like that for many, many years - possibly (probably?) the majority of its existence. As such, the subsidence is part of its very history. There will have been a lot of expensive work carried out to stabilise it, though...

**RussV** · 08-15-2020, 02:07 AM

There are a fair number of buildings like that dotted across England in the more ancient towns such as York. Maybe not that dramatic looking but all now carefully preserved. In previous centuries the internal floors have probably been levelled but the exterior retained as is.

Lord Lucan · 08-15-2020, 02:39 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it.

Don't worry, it is preserved and will be for the forseeable future; it is part of the history of a historic town. It would be what in the UK is designated a "listed building" (the list being manged by Historic England, a government department), and legally protected aginst alteration or demolition.Repairs and any alterations must be approved by the authority, and the owner can be made to pay for any essential repairs. To own a listed building is in fact quite a financial liabilty, although you may think it worthwhile for its charm and/or prestige.

The question of re-levelling such a building or otherwise restoring "as good as new" is controversial. For example should they set the Leaning Tower of Pisa back upright? In general the policy is to stabilise aginst further deterioration while avoiding visible changes. That house probably has a fair bit of underpinning and bracing behind the scenes. I am a structural engineer in industry myself, and I would tend to the side of heavier restoration. When sight-seeing some of these old buildings I am mentally putting in extra re-inforcement, in fact some old structures make me nervous to look at (Gainsborough Old Hall was one). Ironically, that building in York, being timber framed, might stand an earthquake better than the masonry buildings next door, even if it lost its glass and some of the plaster-like infill.

**subsea** · 08-15-2020, 09:01 AM - **2 Likes**

When we were in the UK, we went shopping in a store in a similar building in Stratford-upon-Avon. Wasn't quite as extreme as this one, but it was still uneven enough that, when you took a step, your foot never met the floor quite where you expected. A lot of people found it very disorienting (including my wife).

Even New York City has (or had) buildings like this one. My grandparents owned a business in mid-town Manhattan that stretched over 2 floors in 2 adjacent buildings. One of the buildings had extremely uneven floors similar to these. Eventually that building was purchased and torn down to be replaced by a glass and steel structure with much less character.

Parallax · 08-15-2020, 09:58 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

the subsidence is part of its very history. There will have been a lot of expensive work carried out to stabilise it, though...

That's good to hear. With very few exceptions I prefer preservation of old things* rather than restoration.

*Of course if someone could restore me that would be one of the exceptions.

**subsea** · 08-15-2020, 11:37 AM - **5 Likes**

Remnants of Hadrian's Wall in Heddon on the Wall in Northumberland.

08-14-2020, 11:02 PM - 2 Likes	#6144
subsea Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Commack, NY Posts: 2,605	Originally posted by Racer X 69 You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it. But then it would lose its charm! Last edited by subsea; 08-15-2020 at 08:37 AM.

08-15-2020, 02:39 AM - 3 Likes	#6147
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,979	Originally posted by Racer X 69 You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it. Don't worry, it is preserved and will be for the forseeable future; it is part of the history of a historic town. It would be what in the UK is designated a "listed building" (the list being manged by Historic England, a government department), and legally protected aginst alteration or demolition.Repairs and any alterations must be approved by the authority, and the owner can be made to pay for any essential repairs. To own a listed building is in fact quite a financial liabilty, although you may think it worthwhile for its charm and/or prestige. The question of re-levelling such a building or otherwise restoring "as good as new" is controversial. For example should they set the Leaning Tower of Pisa back upright? In general the policy is to stabilise aginst further deterioration while avoiding visible changes. That house probably has a fair bit of underpinning and bracing behind the scenes. I am a structural engineer in industry myself, and I would tend to the side of heavier restoration. When sight-seeing some of these old buildings I am mentally putting in extra re-inforcement, in fact some old structures make me nervous to look at (Gainsborough Old Hall was one). Ironically, that building in York, being timber framed, might stand an earthquake better than the masonry buildings next door, even if it lost its glass and some of the plaster-like infill. Last edited by Lord Lucan; 08-15-2020 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Format

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08-14-2020, 11:38 AM - 11 Likes	#6136
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Pentax K10D SMC Pentax-DA 16-45mm f/4

08-14-2020, 11:54 AM	#6137
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Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Originally posted by GerryM Great shot, Colton! Thanks my friend.

08-14-2020, 01:38 PM	#6140
pbancr Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southeast Connecticut Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,582	Originally posted by subsea Warped floors in York, England, in 2013. K-10D and FA 28-80mm. Yikes! Wonder what it looks like today!

08-14-2020, 01:51 PM - 1 Like	#6141
RussV Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 302	Originally posted by pbancr Yikes! Wonder what it looks like today! Its probably still there in the same condition and listed, which means it has to be preserved, as is, by law. It probably dates from at least the 16th century. I have to admit it does look a bit rickety!

08-14-2020, 02:09 PM	#6142
subsea Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Commack, NY Posts: 2,605	If I remember correctly, the building was part of the National Trust (kind of like a Historical Landmark in the US) and couldn't be modified without government permission. As Russ says, I have no doubt that it's still there, still looking like it's about to fall down!

08-14-2020, 10:36 PM	#6143
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,077	Originally posted by subsea If I remember correctly, the building was part of the National Trust (kind of like a Historical Landmark in the US) and couldn't be modified without government permission. As Russ says, I have no doubt that it's still there, still looking like it's about to fall down! You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it.

08-14-2020, 11:45 PM - 6 Likes	#6145
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,703	Originally posted by Racer X 69 You would think that at the very least an effort would be made to re-level the structure, in the name of preservation of it. It's rather like antique furniture... originality is preferred over perfection wherever possible. If a 17th century table has flaws and imperfections that occurred during the 18th century, good collectors and restorers will strive to retain them - but if the legs are unstable such that the table can't be used, sympathetic repairs will be made to strengthen the structure whilst minimising visual impact. Given the age of that building, its a safe bet that it has looked like that for many, many years - possibly (probably?) the majority of its existence. As such, the subsidence is part of its very history. There will have been a lot of expensive work carried out to stabilise it, though...

08-15-2020, 02:07 AM	#6146
RussV Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 302	There are a fair number of buildings like that dotted across England in the more ancient towns such as York. Maybe not that dramatic looking but all now carefully preserved. In previous centuries the internal floors have probably been levelled but the exterior retained as is.

08-15-2020, 09:01 AM - 2 Likes	#6148
subsea Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Commack, NY Posts: 2,605	When we were in the UK, we went shopping in a store in a similar building in Stratford-upon-Avon. Wasn't quite as extreme as this one, but it was still uneven enough that, when you took a step, your foot never met the floor quite where you expected. A lot of people found it very disorienting (including my wife). Even New York City has (or had) buildings like this one. My grandparents owned a business in mid-town Manhattan that stretched over 2 floors in 2 adjacent buildings. One of the buildings had extremely uneven floors similar to these. Eventually that building was purchased and torn down to be replaced by a glass and steel structure with much less character.

08-15-2020, 09:58 AM - 3 Likes	#6149
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by BigMackCam the subsidence is part of its very history. There will have been a lot of expensive work carried out to stabilise it, though... That's good to hear. With very few exceptions I prefer preservation of old things* rather than restoration. *Of course if someone could restore me that would be one of the exceptions.

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