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04-04-2008, 12:30 PM   #16
RaduA
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Buy a K20D and a Canon 450D. Switch the front logo from Canon to Pentax and viceversa. Then you will have 2 very precious things in your life:

1) a trully extraordinary camera with weather sealing, the maximum resolution in it's class, unreal detail at ISO 100-400, unbelievable detail at ISO 400 - 800, noise up to ISO 6400, usable noise up to ISO 3200, very clean noise at ISO 1600, color calibrated LCD and much more. Even better it says "Canon" in the front!!!!!!!

and

2) a real reason to complain about that "Pentax" thingy. Body in "plastic fantastic", noisy as hell with it's cramed 12.2 MP sensor not even really APS-C in size, max 1600 ISO, feels like a toy. I am pretty sure that thanks to the "pentax" label it will AF kind of slow and wtf, people it has only 3,5 fps??? 6 RAW buffer, 1/4000 shutter speed, pentamirror, 230K LCD?? This is a professional camera Pentax???? Canon is that much better, omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope it helps,
I mean it is doable and you will have very legitimate reasons to complain about camera nr. 2 for like 850 more posts.

Radu

04-04-2008, 12:48 PM   #17
hll
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Buy a K20D and a Canon 450D. Switch the front logo from Canon to Pentax and viceversa. Then you will have 2 very precious things in your life:

1) a trully extraordinary camera with weather sealing, the maximum resolution in it's class, unreal detail at ISO 100-400, unbelievable detail at ISO 400 - 800, noise up to ISO 6400, usable noise up to ISO 3200, very clean noise at ISO 1600, color calibrated LCD and much more. Even better it says "Canon" in the front!!!!!!!

and

2) a real reason to complain about that "Pentax" thingy. Body in "plastic fantastic", noisy as hell with it's cramed 12.2 MP sensor not even really APS-C in size, max 1600 ISO, feels like a toy. I am pretty sure that thanks to the "pentax" label it will AF kind of slow and wtf, people it has only 3,5 fps??? 6 RAW buffer, 1/4000 shutter speed, pentamirror, 230K LCD?? This is a professional camera Pentax???? Canon is that much better, omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope it helps,
I mean it is doable and you will have very legitimate reasons to complain about camera nr. 2 for like 850 more posts.

Radu
+1... i am impressed
04-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #18
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by hll Quote
+1... i am impressed
Well, RH gave us so many hundreds of hours of his precious time ... I guess 5 minutes from mine for him it is no big deal. BTW, I am pretty happy today since my new printer arrived and I got to print my first K20D photos. So I got a little bit carried away I guess

Radu
04-04-2008, 03:57 PM   #19
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If you want a P&S, then why don't you ... buy a P&S?
Seriously, why don't you? For P&S use, a P&S is most likely the best camera.

Either that, or the Canon if you like the ergonomics.
To be a two system user is very impractical IMO.

MaritimTim

04-04-2008, 04:05 PM   #20
hll
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buy a fuji f31fd as p-s cam and a k20d...
don't pay for expensive toys like 450d. (400d was in a real toy shape, i don't know the 450d )if the af is not everything for you
04-04-2008, 07:05 PM   #21
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How do you know the 450D has the best live view on the market? The contrast control AF in the D300 from Nikon you can't even handhold and is much too slow and inaccurate handheld so why should the 450D be better? No one has claimed the 450D to work amazingly in live view with contrast control just yet.
04-04-2008, 09:54 PM   #22
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Big Dilemma

Thank you for all those kind and useful replies so far. I think I face a real dilemma this time.

1. First of all, regarding to switch completely, I do have many reservations on that:-

Firstly, I do not have the time to sell my lenses one by one with a better but not good price for what they worth on the internet. If I sell them all in a time at shop, they will be sold damn cheap just like junk.

Secondly, most of my collected Pentax glass are good to excellent. They did work flawlessly for me for years on my Pentax film DSLRs, especially on the MZ-S. I cannot think WHY I should discard them as long as Pentax is still making and producing new Pentax DSLRs.

Thirdly, the price of some comparable Canon L glass is ridiculous. Take the 85/1.2L as an example. It sells at 3 times the purchase price of my FA*85/1.4 which I think both are just as excellent in optical quality. I can get an EF 85/1.8 at half of the cost of my FA*85 though, which is also quite good in optical quality (although not as good).

2. Regarding Olympus line: I don't think I will get a DSLR with sensor smaller than APS-C;

3. Regarding true P&S DCs, I do have a Fuji F810 and I have planned to replace it very soon, possible with a Casio EX-S10. I use P&S only when I really don't want to bring almost anything. I do like to shoot with DSLRs for almost every shooting situation. Nevertheless, the 5D plus a flashgun is just really a burden to me sometimes. I used to shoot with a DS and its size and weight is ideal for almost every shooting applications I needed;

4. I like to shoot any type of photography: action, scenery, landscape, street photo, portrait, macro, causal family and friend gathering and so on;

5. Money is not a major concern of me but it still is. That means that I can afford anything of any system. But sometimes I just think that it does not *worth* (e.g., to switch completely). Time is a more concern for me to sell of my gear item one by one and to purchase new glass one by one. I built my Pentax system over years and it was not easy for me to re-build such a system overnight;

6. Storage is more a problem to me as my house is too small and there are too many electronics gadgets in my home;

7. The 450D kit set is ideal and the new kit lens is really cheap if bought together as a kit. However, as most of you knows, I do hate mis-focusing. But the 450D has been reported to mis-focus with the kit lens!(?)

8. I still want to have a P&S DSLR from Pentax which I can just buy a single body alone. However, I really don't know how many old problems of Pentax DSLRs which the K20D and K200D have got it right now, unless I got them to use in reallife, or I shall wait for more user reports (but it seems that so far so good for the K20D - there are a few AF error or other camera issue reports but not numerous, unlike the K10D etc.). So, here is the dilemma.

Guys, any further opinions?
04-05-2008, 02:03 AM   #23
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It sounds like you really want to go for Canon, but have an investment in Pentax and Canon gear is just too expensive. I agree that Canon's L glass is just ridiculously high-priced.

So, you have two options:

1. get the 450D with a Sigma 18-200mm with Optical Image Stabilization ($450) and be happy with it.

2. get a Pentax K20d (since the K200d is just a rehashed K10d and would probably frustrate you)
The K200d weighs 75g less than the K20d (112g less if you use lithium batteries). Not such a big deal, in my opinion. Get the more capable camera, if price is not a major concern.

04-05-2008, 04:25 AM   #24
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K20D Vs 450D now!

Right, I should rule out the K200D. With the 450D, I think I would get the IS kit lens altogether because I never use super zoom and I have never had good impression on Sigma optics (maybe traditional Pentax's glass are mostly so good).

As for the K20D, I think it still has an edge in size and weight against the 5D just because it has a built-in flash, otherwise the difference is minimal for the body alone. But Pentax's lenses are usually smaller and lighter for the same spec-ed lenses. So, Pentax will still win for the overall added up weight (for the K20D Vs 5D case). However, for the lightest carry-around DSLR, the 450D is yet a no-brainer.

QuoteOriginally posted by jms698 Quote
It sounds like you really want to go for Canon, but have an investment in Pentax and Canon gear is just too expensive. I agree that Canon's L glass is just ridiculously high-priced.

So, you have two options:

1. get the 450D with a Sigma 18-200mm with Optical Image Stabilization ($450) and be happy with it.

2. get a Pentax K20d (since the K200d is just a rehashed K10d and would probably frustrate you)
The K200d weighs 75g less than the K20d (112g less if you use lithium batteries). Not such a big deal, in my opinion. Get the more capable camera, if price is not a major concern.
04-05-2008, 04:35 AM   #25
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Live View functions compared

QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
How do you know the 450D has the best live view on the market? The contrast control AF in the D300 from Nikon you can't even handhold and is much too slow and inaccurate handheld so why should the 450D be better? No one has claimed the 450D to work amazingly in live view with contrast control just yet.
On paper and user manuals, the 450D offers Live Histogram and can be used in all non-picture modes include P, Av, Tv, M and A-Dep and it offers two options for AF. For the K20D, it is told in the user manual that under LiveView, the user cannot change *any* exposure setting plus there is no indication for the AF nor there is a full LiveView mode with AF but only MF is possible if the user wants to keep the LV. The manual even tells us that the LV will not be working if the outside temperature is "too hot"!(?)

Yes, contrast detection AF is slower, with the 450D, it can be used handheld and will track for moving object too for the focusing frame (as verified by some reviewers of local magazines). It is told that it requires about 3 seconds to do the AF but if in "quick AF" mode (i.e. mirror up for AF), only less than one second is required (but then the LV will cease during AF).

Chris, I actually don't know exactly what you wished to point out (the LV of the K20D is just so weak?), but even the contrast detection AF is slower, it must be better than *none*. Don't you agree?

Afterall, I really don't understand why Pentax need to implement their Live View with so many limitations and made this mode virtually useless than it should be.
04-05-2008, 05:36 AM   #26
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Hi, what about the 40d? I havent read all the posts on the thread but it might be a good option for you.
Option B: why dont buy an interim Canon 20D in good shape until the new version of 5d is released and then sell the 20D and the 5D to get the 5D markII.

If you already made your mind to either the 450D and K20d I think that you should take the K20D. You already have the lenses, its price will never drop and you can forget about the technical aspects just to focus in your art. Remember the slogan JUST DO IT!!!
04-05-2008, 07:05 AM   #27
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RH...I am sold. I'm going for the Canon 450D. I'm going out today to pick up 2 bodies, 2 Battery drives and a Hot Corned Beef sandwich, Dill Pickle and a Large Potatoes Salad..Oh and a Ginger Ale.

Ben
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