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04-04-2008, 07:20 AM   #1
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K100D Replacement: K200D, K20D or 450D?

Well, I seldom ask for opinions, but this time, I think I need some help :-)

I think my K100D is due for replacement, owing to the too low pixel count by today's standard and that its exposure accuracy is deteriorating than when it was new (there has been more underexposure for an additional 0.5 EV after for using for 20 months for ambient light metering - I am sure about that as I have been using the CWA metering mostly) and other some original problems of the K100D (Auto ISO bug, slow AF etc.)

In fact, my Canon 5D is ideal for its camera performance but it could not replace my K100D for its compactness and with a built-in flash, which is actually my P&S DSLR when I really could not afford for more weight and space sometimes when I went out to shoot, plus, more importantly, when I need to use some of my particular Pentax lenses, e.g., super telephoto and macro etc.

Now that I am still seriously considering the K200D, K20D (body only) and the Canon 450D kit set (body + 18-55 II IS)

My analysis on the pros and cons/my concerns for each of the above (for what I concern most) are as follows:

K20D Pros: Highest pixel count and more resolution, better AWB, brighter exposure (it seems to be, for my limited experience with it), better noise control than the K10D (but no idea for how it is compared to the K100D and the K200D), verified improved AF accuracy, verified improved AFC tracking ability, currently top-of the line of Pentax DSLRs, large and bright viewfinder (for an APS-C DSLR), in-body SR (and of course)

K20D Concerns: Comparatively expensive, risk of more noise for a very high density pixel packed in a small(er) APS-C sensor, not really lightweight (but with a built-in flash anyway), LiveView is very difficult to use, with very minimal features and too many limitations, e.g., even the Av and Tv cannot be changed and LV may be not working under higher temperature enviroment.

K200D Pros: Much cheaper than the K20D, seems to be improved over the K10D and should be a debugged/enhanced version using the same sensor, better in-camera jpegs, good AF accuracy (as compared to the 450D for the kit lenses for two different magazine tests I have seen), should be or maybe using the same new technology which the K20D has for new AWB and AF-C algorithms, somehow less weight and size than the K20D, in body SR (of course), best skin tone I think

K200D Concerns: Not really one of the most compact and lightweight DSLRs around, sluggish AF and AF hunting at lower light, unsure about the improvement for AF accuracy and AFC tracking ability, unsure about exposure accuracy improvement.

450 Pros: The best LiveView function and very flexible for use with contrast detection AF and the user can use P, Tv, Av, A-Dep and M mode also with Live Histogram, really compact and lightweight, improved build quality over 400/350D, fast to very fast AF, AF with f/2.8 sensor for the central AF point, price is the same as the K200D (in my city), viewfinder size is the same as the K200, 3" LCD monitor, bright and sharp in-camera jpegs out of the box and with the option of auto tone curve adjustment to in-camera jpegs too (D-light for Nikon DSLRs), bundles of other latest DSLR features.

450 Concerns: a new kit lens needed to be bought, AF inaccuracy problem verified with consumer slow lenses (include the kit lens, but no problem with faster primes or zooms - f/2.8 AF sensor in action?), I have little Canon glass (24-105L and 50/1.8 only, will get either 85/1.8 or 100/2 soon), no body IS and Canon IS lenses are usually expensive (and of course! :-))

Any kind comments are welcome and my big thanks in advance!

P.S. For those who don't like me and won't really want to help me, pls just ignore my this thread and just skip. Just please don't try to start *any* personal flaming. Thanks also.

Last edited by RiceHigh; 04-04-2008 at 07:27 AM.
04-04-2008, 07:53 AM   #2
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are there rumors about new entry level dSLR from Pentax which will be under K200D ? if so may be just wait for it to be your "P&S"...
04-04-2008, 07:58 AM   #3
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This seems like an honest question (although somewhat biased in tone), so I'll go ahead and give my opinion.

From the pros and cons you've listed it sounds like you really want to go for the Canon 450. It is the smallest and lightest of the various options and has very fast AF (which you seem to really want). As a P&S replacement it sounds like the best option. If you start buying some more Canon glass you can also use that in your 5D (provided it is full-frame compatible). Sell me your Pentax glass

Some negatives about the 450 that you haven't listed:
- only goes up to ISO 1600 (like the K200d and K10d) and probably with good reason. Although I haven't seen any test results yet, I predict that those 12 megapixels will produce a good bit of noise. The K20d has much better high-ISO noise characteristics due to a clever sensor design. The k200d is similar in noise to the K10d, so it is worse than what you are used to from the K100d.
- not weather sealed like the Pentax cameras
- super-uncomfortable grip and generally shoddy build quality. You pay a price for the light weight.
- over-sharpened JPEGs out of camera that give everything the trademark Canon "plastic" look
- small dark viewfinder

Since you are after a P&S replacement, have you considered the Olympus E-420 or Sony A300/350 as possible options?
04-04-2008, 08:11 AM   #4
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I have to agree that the 450D may be what you are looking for. It is not what I would choose, but we have different tastes. I don't think the K200 is improved over the K10. It has the same sensor, same AF, slower fps and tiny buffer. With as much as you hated the K10 I don't see how you would like the K200. If you want a great camera I recommend the K20. If you want a large p&s I think the 450D sounds like what you are looking for.

04-04-2008, 08:38 AM   #5
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Get the 450D. You are used to Canon, and you can use your existing line-up of lenses. Sell the Pentax gear (get a good price right here on the forums, or go to eBay, or sell locally), and witht he money you get, you can buy even MORE glass for your P&S DSLR (quite an odd concept, this)
04-04-2008, 08:54 AM   #6
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The Canon does fit better for you. If you need the K20D quality picture, you can get that with your 5D. For casual point and shoot, just go with something light and complement well with your current lenses.

Selling your Pentax lenses is not a bad idea either. By focusing on just Canon, you would be able to get better Canon glasses. And I'm sure you would get very good price (probably more than what you paid for) for those Pentax lenses you have, especially that FA* 200 macro (I dib on that one). Good luck.
04-04-2008, 08:59 AM   #7
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Canon For Sure...

Hello RH;

Based on your criteria, I would most definitely opt for the Canon 450D. Light, Small and Canon CMOS. What more can I say. I am sure that the images you will be able to realize will be much better than what the Pentax is able to capture. In fact based on your own analysis, I too may have to take the plunge and buy one. But then again, I am not looking to improve my technique. Only my art. I guess I'll stay with Pentax then. As you know already, it is not so much the gear, as most stuff out there today is pretty good today. It is the person behind the tool. Or is it the "Tool" behind the person? No matter... Happy shooting....

04-04-2008, 09:18 AM   #8
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there are rumours of a Kx000d model, maybe you can wait for that?
if size and live view are your first priorities everything points to the E-420.

otherwise based on your choices, i'd say 450D like everyone else

i don't know this as fact, but probably only on a Pentax forum would we recommend other brands of SLRs!

04-04-2008, 09:33 AM   #9
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I seem to be on the same page as many others here. Personally I look at it economically (since I'm You obviously like the 5D, and didn't like the K10D. I'm not sure the K200D will be much different for you than the K10D. The 450D would allow you to use your existing Canon equipment, and would therefore act as a real backup body as well as a "P&S".

If economy isn't a consideration, you might consider the Oly line, I've heard good things about them, compactness being one of them.

Another choice might be maybe the new Nikon D60? I don't know much about it's performance, my company just bought one with a 2 VR lens kit the other day, haven't seen any output from it yet though. It is certainly small, although the kit lens seems quite a bit larger than the Pentax one.
04-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Hello RH;

I am sure that the images you will be able to realize will be much better than what the Pentax is able to capture.


why ben??? is it so obvious, or did i misunderstand??
04-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by hll Quote
why ben??? is it so obvious, or did i misunderstand??
LOL, if you read further, you will notice the hint.
04-04-2008, 11:05 AM   #12
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Buy either Pentax model. Otherwise you won't have anything to complain about, and your will to live will surely fade...

In all seriousness, you should go Canon. Pentax will never live up to your expectations wrt AF, high ISO, etc. It will always be behind isn't what the brand is about. Sell your Pentax glass and since you have a 5D, investing in more Canon glass is a no-brainer. There is no reason to support two dslr systems unless you are shooting professionally and have very specific needs.
04-04-2008, 11:57 AM   #13
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I would first ask what kind of photography will you be using your upcoming camera for? Next, it looks like you already have the Canon 5D, so purchasing another SLR would be large anyway considering the lenses and gear you have to carry.

Furthermore, IMHO, Liveview isn't a practical feature for usage in real world situations. There is no need to compare Liveview's from different manufacturers as it's not a useful feature which is used only in very specific situations. Overall, more time is saved when using the viewfinder. Also, the Canon 450D's liveview when using contrast detection is slow. Consider comparing the in camera features as well such as SR, custom menus, custom white balance to name a few.

Personally, when I'm faced with casual situations, such as going out with friends, I would carry my Optio A30. If I know I'm going to a more "pro" event where I need my SLR, then I'll be prepared for the situation. Now that the A40 is out, I would suggest checking that out and save your money for some other equipment.
04-04-2008, 12:04 PM   #14
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What are you typical photo subjects and under what conditions do you use your lower end dSLR? This would help prioritize your choices.

The K200D would probably be a step back in ISO performance since it's the same Sony CCD as the K10D (a used K10D would be the other choice but you seem to really hate it). The Canon 450D and K20D would probably be around the same ISO performance as your K100D or slightly better with the
extra pixels.

The biggest advantage for the K200D/K20D is weathersealing and I've never heard of you hiking or shooting in the rain :-) If you love using prime lenses, that'd be the other consideration. Or if you do poster size enlargements.

Given that your other camera is already a Canon, it makes more sense to lean that way since you can share lenses if none of these Pentax strengths apply. As someone mentioned a P&S is another option but their low iso performance truly sucks except for the Fuji F30 that I have and am happy with...
04-04-2008, 12:08 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
there are rumours of a Kx000d model, maybe you can wait for that?
I wouldn't wait because of an unsubstantiated rumor slim K-series model. If a mock-up was leaked, then maybe, but, as it stands, we have no way of knowing if or when such a camera would manifest.

I'd think that Pentax has more to gain from releasing a K1d pro-level camera with a new AF system and 10 fps. That will be their priority.

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