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View Poll Results: Would you buy a full frame Pentax DSLR?
Yes; I will move to FF as soon as I can 6046.88%
No; APS-C size, cost and quality suits me best 6853.13%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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04-12-2008, 07:44 AM   #16
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As I already wrote in another thread, I'd like to see a K21D or GX-21 with 1.2x crop 30x20mm sensor, 21 Mpix (same density/ISO performance as K20D), improved AF to rival Nik*n's, selling around $1,500.

The obvious advantages of this body: can use FA and most DA lenses so it won't alienate existing lens owners, and much more affordable than $5K FF.

04-12-2008, 07:56 AM   #17
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I want both

A Canon 5D is about $2,000. At that price it is no longer a question of either/or. I'd spend That on a second body that would increase my choices significantly over a couple of new lenses that would cost me the same. A 14 to 18 MP FF sensor would, IMO, be ideal. The low light/high ISO capability would blow anything on the market out of the box.
04-12-2008, 08:03 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
300 on APS-C still magnifies like a 300 on anything else, its just cropped to the FoV of a 450.
@thePiRaTE: While I do agree, you should be more specific here:

300 on APS-C still magnifies like a 300 on anything else, if the pixels have the same size!

This holds true for Pentax APS-C vs. Sony FF or Samsung FF (~5 micron each). But it wouldn't hold true for Nikon D3 or Canon 5D (larger pixels, less magnification, good glass assumed).

(Just to get things straight)


Personally, I only want FF if it has the same pixel size as APS-C (as long as above 2 micron).
04-12-2008, 08:19 AM   #19
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You all have seen the thread in Rumors about the forthcoming Samsung (NOT Pentax!) full frame body, have you?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/24863-samasung-hints-f...me-camera.html

04-12-2008, 08:23 AM   #20
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I voted YES, but that don't mean I would buy an FF at any price. If it comes in the Canon
5D price range (2000 -2500) I would eventually go FF, but not if it would be some "Pro" body in the 5000 Dollar range.

I have taken several test shots with a 5D and unless printed large, I was unable to see that much difference between the 5D, 40D or K10D, specially when they ran through std Photo-shop procedure like USM etc... ( unless you're pixel-peeping only)

But in general I strongly believe - a bigger sensor is always better, it's just a matter of cost.
04-12-2008, 08:26 AM   #21
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I guess I don't get into the debate of crop and FF FOV and reach again . But from the other thread, we come down to the point whether the lens or the censor is the limiting factor in resolving power.

I don't know how Pentax would compete with anyone if they release it at $5000. The FF Canon 7D is rumored to be priced around $2k. The new Sony FF is rumored to be priced around $3k. Both Sony and Canon have much less selection in crop-grade lenses, and they actually have some useful zoom range lenses on FF. Even if both of the DA* zooms are compatible with FF, they have very awkward range.

With that said, if Nikon really wants to kill Pentax's sale, they just need to drop the D3 price a bit. Only avid Pentax fan would get a Pentax FF at the same price as the D3. To compete with such a giant is quite suicidal.

And I hope Pentax wouldn't follow Sony footstep: catering more to studio shooter with high MP count. From most calculation, a 16MP FF is best compromise between ISO noise and resolution. AF system should be improved as well.

I would get one if it's between the 7D and A900. So far I already got rid all of my DA lenses so I'm good to go.
04-12-2008, 08:59 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by HogRider Quote
I have taken several test shots with a 5D and unless printed large, I was unable to see that much difference between the 5D, 40D or K10D, specially when they ran through std Photo-shop procedure like USM etc... ( unless you're pixel-peeping only)
At higher ISO speeds, say, 800 and up, the difference shown is quite obvious, even when viewed on the monitor in full screen for the pics.

Also, the DoF look and 3d feel are quite difference, even for the same Angle of View. That's the true value of the Full Frame. Not even to mention about all of the excellent old Pentax film lenses can get alive again (as they were originally designed) when there is a FF DSLR..
04-12-2008, 09:14 AM   #23
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I would love a full frame sensor that would allow the viewfinder and the focal length to be true but I'm not about to pay $2K or more on a camera body to entertain myself with. I'm just a hobbyist that likes to take pictures for my own enjoyment, and at the moment my DS with assorted lenses does me just fine. One day many years down the road it may be possible to have a $899 FF camera body, if that becomes a reality then I'm all in. Until then I'm fine with APS since FF in my price range probably won't be happening by the time I'm ready to replace the DS or maybe even the one that follows it. I'm too practical.

04-12-2008, 09:31 AM   #24
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FF DSLR is very cheap right now already!

QuoteOriginally posted by MacGirl Quote
I would love a full frame sensor that would allow the viewfinder and the focal length to be true but I'm not about to pay $2K or more on a camera body to entertain myself with. I'm just a hobbyist that likes to take pictures for my own enjoyment, and at the moment my DS with assorted lenses does me just fine. One day many years down the road it may be possible to have a $899 FF camera body, if that becomes a reality then I'm all in. Until then I'm fine with APS since FF in my price range probably won't be happening by the time I'm ready to replace the DS or maybe even the one that follows it. I'm too practical.
FF DSLR is actually very "affordable" right now, that is, for the Canon 5D only.

It has actually come down to the same price point for what I got my *ist D with the FAJ kit lens in Jan 2004.

The Canon 1DS and the Nikon D3 are something which are still quite expensive, but then those bodies are not expensive on the FF sensor alone, but the camera body itself for its highest performance and specifications.

For a new comer who must decides upon FF and APS-C, I think it is just a no-brainer if he has to compare against the Nikon D300 or alike against the Canon 5D, unlike he wants more camera speeds rather than image quality.
04-12-2008, 09:49 AM   #25
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Would you buy a FF Pentax?

If it cost the same, sure (and it better do everything the cameras are capable of now). If it cost more, no.

I've never read an argument of why I should care about 'FF' that swayed me. It's a big fat 'meh', but it does provoke a lot of hand wringing in some circles.
04-12-2008, 10:30 AM   #26
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Really depends on how much better it is in several measurements (high ISO, dynamic range etc) than the APSC camera released around the same timeframe and how much more it costs.
04-12-2008, 11:22 AM   #27
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I just want something that manages high ISOs better! If it's easier/cheaper for Pentax and Samsung to attain high quality at 3200/6400 ISO with an APS-C sensor, then this is what i want. If it is easier/cheaper with a FF, then this is what i want. If it is easier/cheaper with something in between... From what i understand the K20D may be just fine for that, but compared to a 5D?
The reason why i bought my camera is because it was in my opinion some of the best IQ for the money. I will not need a professional camera in the near futur, so if this is what Pentax comes up with, i am not going to be interested.
04-12-2008, 11:41 AM   #28
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You can now buy a full medium format setup for $10K. Why dick around with FF slr at $5K for the body and another $1K for a decent lens?

There are a lot of variables here, but one that no one seems to talk about is how the sensor draws (to use a Sean Reid term). People toss around "IQ" without much thought as to what the image really looks like. Objective numbers don't really fly because in the end it depends on what the final image looks like, and whether or not I've realized what I "saw."

Small sensors tend to "look" different than APS, which look different than FF which look different than MF. A simplistic view is that "bigger is better" but that isn't always the case. There are a lot of other pieces in the puzzle. And as always, the best picture is taken with the camera that you actually have with you. All things being equal, a FF camera is going to be bigger than an APS which will be bigger than a small sensor. There are times I wouldn't take something the size of a 5D with me. But maybe someone will follow Sigma's lead and do a full frame "DP-1". In that arena, look to Ricoh and Sigma to be the leaders, not Conikon or Pentax.
04-12-2008, 01:23 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by deudeu Quote
I just want something that manages high ISOs better! If it's easier/cheaper for Pentax and Samsung to attain high quality at 3200/6400 ISO with an APS-C sensor, then this is what i want. If it is easier/cheaper with a FF, then this is what i want. If it is easier/cheaper with something in between... From what i understand the K20D may be just fine for that, but compared to a 5D?
The reason why i bought my camera is because it was in my opinion some of the best IQ for the money. I will not need a professional camera in the near futur, so if this is what Pentax comes up with, i am not going to be interested.

Steve's Digicams - Tech Corner - March 2008

High ISO performance amongst different brands is a myth -- it's just a question of how much 'blurring' they use to archive what *looks* like an acceptable image. Shoot at whatever ISO you wish, you can blur it later to make it more pleasing with numerous programs after the fact.

There isn't much difference in noise or ISO performance when it comes to FF vs APS-C. But many people have convinced themselves otherwise.
04-12-2008, 04:50 PM   #30
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I can't spend more than a thousand dollars a year on my photography hobby bodies, lenses, accessories, and all. Therefore, the only way I can possibly consider a $5k body is if it's still going to be top of the heap about a decade from now. That amount of slowing in technology growth is not likely in my lifetime. I'm much better off buying a $1000 body every three years or so and spending the rest on accessories.
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