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View Poll Results: Would you buy a full frame Pentax DSLR?
Yes; I will move to FF as soon as I can 6046.88%
No; APS-C size, cost and quality suits me best 6853.13%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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04-12-2008, 05:04 PM   #31
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I voted yes. That would be assuming that the pixel count was not over the top. If you were to scale the present K20D sensor to full-frame it would be in the 40mp range. I would settle for 20 to 25 mp. The logic is simple, less stress on the lenses and opens up a broader aperature range, selective focus, more aptions regarding DOF, etc. than the APS size sensors.


Bob

04-12-2008, 05:08 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobrapp Quote
I voted yes. That would be assuming that the pixel count was not over the top. If you were to scale the present K20D sensor to full-frame it would be in the 40mp range. I would settle for 20 to 25 mp. The logic is simple, less stress on the lenses and opens up a broader aperture range, selective focus, more options regarding DOF, etc. than the APS size sensors.


Bob
I forgot to mention, I only have one APS lens - the 16-45 F4. In full frame, I have lenses spanning the range from 17mm to 200 plus several zooms - some of which are quite good on the K10D.

Bob
04-12-2008, 05:17 PM   #33
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I voted no, I'd stick with APS-C.

As a hobbyist I appreciate the small size and weight and most of all the (supposed) lower cost of the APS-C lenses.

I'd also like to point out that a FF camera would be the end of the fabled backwards compatability...
04-12-2008, 06:26 PM   #34
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Sorry, the vote choices are too limited. When I get to the point where I am going to get a new camera (*ist Ds and K10D) I will see what is available.

If Pentax made a 135 format (I try to use the full frame of what I have so the term FF is just wrong) camera and I was able to buy it on my budget - I would get it.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

04-12-2008, 06:51 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpopham Quote
I voted no, I'd stick with APS-C.

As a hobbyist I appreciate the small size and weight and most of all the (supposed) lower cost of the APS-C lenses.

I'd also like to point out that a FF camera would be the end of the fabled backwards compatability...

I'd bet dimes to dollars that a new FF body would read a DA lens and optionally scale its sensor. Worst case scenario, you have poor edge performance and crop your shots manually. Mount compatibility would remain.

I wouldn't think the addition of a 24x36mm sensor over an 18x24mm one would necessitate a dramatic increase in body size, if at all. The mount was already originally designed for a film of that size.
04-12-2008, 07:27 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote

I wouldn't think the addition of a 24x36mm sensor over an 18x24mm one would necessitate a dramatic increase in body size, if at all. The mount was already originally designed for a film of that size.
The body would require a larger mirror, shutter and Pentaprism. Since the flange to sensor distance is the same, the only extra bulk would be for electronics.

Bob
04-13-2008, 02:47 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobrapp Quote
The body would require a larger mirror, shutter and Pentaprism. Since the flange to sensor distance is the same, the only extra bulk would be for electronics.

Bob
I doubt that.
My ME Super handling 35mm film (FF) is a whole lot smaller than my K10D.

- Bert
04-13-2008, 04:10 AM   #38
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I would not buy a $5000 camera.

I would probably never even buy a $2000 camera.

I dont care what size the sensor is particularly I just care about price vs. performance and what I can get for around $1000. I would rather spend the rest on decent glass.

The difference in performance is - in useful terms - practically insignificant. FF is far more of an emotional choice than a practical one unless you are a professional.

04-13-2008, 06:14 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I would not buy a $5000 camera.

I would probably never even buy a $2000 camera.

I dont care what size the sensor is particularly I just care about price vs. performance and what I can get for around $1000. I would rather spend the rest on decent glass.

The difference in performance is - in useful terms - practically insignificant. FF is far more of an emotional choice than a practical one unless you are a professional.
Steve,
In general, I agree with you about the cost of a body. The difference in performance however throws a monkey wrench in the equation. When I look at the high ISO samples from a Nikon D3 it seems there is at least two stops difference between that and a K20D.

My present collection of old M and A series lenses shouldn't be out resolved by a 12-14 MP FF sensor so the need to buy new glass is not an issue. A higher MP count would probably cause problems. 28mm is as wide as I have and would like to go wider but the cost looks like it would be at least $500 to get something of good quality. A FF body the size of a K20D would not only give me the wide angle I want but also give me an extra two stops on lenses like the A 200/4. For $2,000 I get a new wide angle lens and an additional two stops on all of my lenses if it were priced at $2,000 like the Canon 5D.

I see a FF body as an addition to my present system that improves my range of lenses and low light performance. Your opinion is highly regarded and would be interested in what your thoughts are on this reasoning.

Thanks,
Ken
04-13-2008, 06:42 AM   #40
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thing is whats all this fuss over FF other than... historical ? I mean so we used to use 36 mm before that it was 4-6 inchs (depending on frame shape) why not call the old medium format full frame ? I mean we have medium format digital backs, its mearly a reference point and today APS-C size sensors and related equipment are quite adequate unless you have particular needs. is there any particular reason (I am a novice after all) why we crave the popular 36 X 24 mm frame size (other than old film SLR compatibility). of course theres always the old 12 inch glass wet plate shall we ask for a digital version of that ? I saw one at my camera club 150 year old camera worth about 20'000 pounds
04-13-2008, 06:53 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
(1) High ISO performance amongst different brands is a myth -- it's just a question of how much 'blurring' they use to archive what *looks* like an acceptable image.

(2) Shoot at whatever ISO you wish, you can blur it later to make it more pleasing with numerous programs after the fact.

(3) There isn't much difference in noise or ISO performance when it comes to FF vs APS-C. But many people have convinced themselves otherwise.
(1) I agree.

(2) Actually, shoot at whatever aperture/speed you wish, you can always boost the shadows later on (it doesn't really matter whether high ISO or the boost creates the noise).

(3) Now, that's an easy one: twice the surface = 1 step better ISO noise performance. This is an exact fact from the underlying physics.
04-13-2008, 06:58 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by aegisphan Quote
whether the lens or the censor is the limiting factor in resolving power.
Ah no. I've seen some images, esp. from Japan, where censorship clearly was the limiting factor in resolving power
04-13-2008, 07:41 AM   #43
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A FF Pentax would NOT be the end of backwards compatibility -- see how Nikon does it with the D3.

There is quite a difference between noise and high-ISO (ISO 6400 say) performance with the D3 and everything else below $5000. I'm not sure why the OP would make such a statement.

I don't have the Canon 5D or the Nikon D3 but I have a pair of friends who do, and I pixel-peep their images regularly. I'd have zero interest in a FF that performs like the K10D. This the main reason why I didn't go for the 5D -- I didn't think it was enough of an advantage for 4x the price. (This of course is why the K10D is such an incredible camera.) However, if you combine FF, low noise, high ISO, fast AF, accurate AF, high frame rate, plus weather sealing, this is quite a camera. Most people fixate on the FF, but the D3 is the complete package, at a price.

I voted yes, but only if the FF Pentax is exactly like a D3 with a K mount. And I'm probably lying about being willing to shell out $5000; $3000 though...
04-13-2008, 09:18 AM   #44
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No ASP-C suites me fine, BUT

I answered no, because I have no issues with the crop factor of ASP-C sensors, In fact, as I shoot mostly wild life the crop factor has an advantage for me.

The real fact is, I don't really care one way or another, as to the format of the sensor, BUT in my lens collection, where I have 14 lenses, I have only 1 that is ASP-C limited, specifically my sigma 10-20mm

Part of this simply that many of my lenses predate digital specific formats, and this includes the kit lens that came with my *istD (SMC-FAJ 18-35) and my sigma APO 70-200 F2.8 EX, but I was concious of the full frame capability of my tamron 28-75 F2.8 when I bought it this year.

I still have a very capable film camera (PZ-1) and I do use it from time to time so having lenses that can work on it is a benefit, but also because somewhere in the back of my mind, due to those who promote full frame digital, should one become available I might just have a go at it, if and only if, it is not cost prohibitive, and if it has better IQ and Noise at extreme ISO.

If a camera like that comes along, why not, but otherwise, ASP-C is fine.
04-13-2008, 09:23 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Ah no. I've seen some images, esp. from Japan, where censorship clearly was the limiting factor in resolving power
. I don't know what I was thinking.
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