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01-28-2014, 09:48 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
When we are in a Pentax specific forum, we are 'shielded' from the realities of camera interest on a scope beyond Pentax. I am on a non-branded local forum. (pretty big user base) Its obvious that the least interest is in the Pentax stuff no matter how good it is.
That's an inconvenient but healthy perspective. The OP posed the question, what is the strength of Pentax/Ricoh now? Mostly what I've read are from the tribe of current and lifetime Pentax owners: the self-reinforcing choir.

I mostly shoot Canon these days, and subscribe to a few brand-agnostic forums, as well as a Canon-focused one. To answer the OP's question, the one Pentax/Ricoh camera that consistently garners admiration and attention across all divides is the Ricoh GR. Its combination of size, interface, looks, and output qualities are distinctive. I think this was inherited from prior Ricoh compacts.
The only Pentax products that are mentioned is the use of M42 Taks on new FF and mirrorless bodies made by companies noted above. Everything else is pretty much off the radar.

M

01-29-2014, 12:27 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
That's an inconvenient but healthy perspective. The OP posed the question, what is the strength of Pentax/Ricoh now? Mostly what I've read are from the tribe of current and lifetime Pentax owners: the self-reinforcing choir.

I mostly shoot Canon these days, and subscribe to a few brand-agnostic forums, as well as a Canon-focused one. To answer the OP's question, the one Pentax/Ricoh camera that consistently garners admiration and attention across all divides is the Ricoh GR. Its combination of size, ..
It is a simple answer, because the GR is a non-system camera. Such a camera anyone can buy to complement whatever system they have.
However, brand name Pentax is related to mounts, or system cameras. So one digs Pentax system, or not, or looking from a distance in curiosity as it is happening right now. The purpose of Ricoh branded cameras is to ultimately point to Ricoh Imaging's system cameras, which are Pentax cameras.

That is why Ricoh's branding is so important now and more prominent than Pentax's brand marketing. But many Pentaxians don't dig that.
01-29-2014, 08:41 AM   #48
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OMG, you mean i'm restricted to just one camera???

I like my Nex 6 just fine for casual sidewalk shooting and fun like that. But when i need to shoot actor headshots, promos, rehearsal pics at the local community theater, for the local newspapers or lobby display, i much prefer my more serious, capable K5. In fact, my K3 is supposed to arrive today - yeah!!!

It all comes down to "form follows function". Comparing camera features without a preliminary discussion of what the camera is to be used for is rather nonsensical.
01-29-2014, 09:09 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is a simple answer, because the GR is a non-system camera. Such a camera anyone can buy to complement whatever system they have.
However, brand name Pentax is related to mounts, or system cameras. So one digs Pentax system, or not, or looking from a distance in curiosity as it is happening right now. The purpose of Ricoh branded cameras is to ultimately point to Ricoh Imaging's system cameras, which are Pentax cameras.

That is why Ricoh's branding is so important now and more prominent than Pentax's brand marketing. But many Pentaxians don't dig that.
That is a simply silly and irrelevant distinction that may matter to those who count angels dancing on a pinhead.

Special products gain purchase and admiration regardless of their "system" limitations. There are a sizable number of Canon shooters who added a D800 because of its capabilities. Same can be said for the Nikon 14-24mm UWA lens-- it's that good. I have several friends who have jumped into the Olympus OM line due to its greatness, in fact the brand new model sadly adds another brick to the wall of Pentax irrelevance.

M

01-29-2014, 09:53 AM   #50
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Some of this camera buying is just flavor of the week. One of my friends at a camera club, buys most of the new cameras that Sony produces and occasionally from some other makes as well. The rest of us look forward to each meeting to see what he'll bring next. A retired Dr, he's got the money so why not? Loves the technology and changes.

Takes about 20 pictures, perhaps buys a lens, then moves onto the next camera. Whatever floats your boat.
01-29-2014, 09:59 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Some of this camera buying is just flavor of the week. One of my friends at a camera club, buys most of the new cameras that Sony produces and occasionally from some other makes as well. The rest of us look forward to each meeting to see what he'll bring next. A retired Dr, he's got the money so why not? Loves the technology and changes.

Takes about 20 pictures, perhaps buys a lens, then moves onto the next camera. Whatever floats your boat.
Tell me where he lives...
01-29-2014, 10:10 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
One of my friends at a camera club, buys most of the new cameras that Sony produces and occasionally from some other makes as well.
So how many Pentax models has he purchased during this run?

M
01-29-2014, 10:12 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
OMG, you mean i'm restricted to just one camera???

I like my Nex 6 just fine for casual sidewalk shooting and fun like that. But when i need to shoot actor headshots, promos, rehearsal pics at the local community theater, for the local newspapers or lobby display, i much prefer my more serious, capable K5. In fact, my K3 is supposed to arrive today - yeah!!!

It all comes down to "form follows function". Comparing camera features without a preliminary discussion of what the camera is to be used for is rather nonsensical.
Definitely. To me, the goal with a camera body is to shoot photos. Some bodies make that process easy and others are a struggle (although nearly all SLR/MILC cameras are pretty capable these days). Some are a little more portable, although none are particularly pocketable once you include a lens. I have shot with Pentax cameras long enough that they feel like an extension of me when I am shooting.

Bodies come and go, the question is if you have the glass and if it works for your purposes.

01-29-2014, 02:41 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Tell me where he lives...
Get in line :-)

QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
So how many Pentax models has he purchased during this run?

M
None, but he does have a large or medium format Pentax film camera, forget which.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Definitely. To me, the goal with a camera body is to shoot photos. Some bodies make that process easy and others are a struggle (although nearly all SLR/MILC cameras are pretty capable these days). Some are a little more portable, although none are particularly pocketable once you include a lens. I have shot with Pentax cameras long enough that they feel like an extension of me when I am shooting.

Bodies come and go, the question is if you have the glass and if it works for your purposes.
agreed.
01-29-2014, 03:15 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
That is a simply silly and irrelevant distinction that may matter to those who count angels dancing on a pinhead.... in fact the brand new model sadly adds another brick to the wall of Pentax irrelevance.

M
Pentax was notorious for bad relationships with dealers. It was a bad, bad name, and in the end no one wanted to deal with Pentax. Pentax did that to itself, with incompetent management, and when the presence in shops was gone, it was out of people's sights and radars.

Such a bad reputation is far worse than any possible product flop, because Nikon and Canon and Sony are selling daily tons of product flops and half-baked ideas thanks to firm relationships with distributors.

However, Pentax now needs not only better relationships, but it must come with totally amazing products to clear its name and reputation. Ricoh really needed to stand behind all that mess and say clearly "From now on you deal with Ricoh, and we do care about our dealers better than anyone else". With Pentax name alone, the things would move at glacial speeds as many would not trust them.

And that is the reality that you and some other dear partisans of ours do not dig.

Last edited by Uluru; 01-29-2014 at 03:20 PM.
01-29-2014, 03:17 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
However, Pentax now needs not only better relationships, but it must come with totally amazing products to clear its name and reputation. Ricoh really needed to stand behind all that mess and say clearly "From now on you deal with Ricoh, and we do care about our dealers better than anyone else". With Pentax name alone, the things will move at glacial speeds.
And a higher profit margin than the other guys.*


* See references to MAP.
01-30-2014, 02:47 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Pentax was notorious for bad relationships with dealers. It was a bad, bad name, and in the end no one wanted to deal with Pentax. Pentax did that to itself, with incompetent management, and when the presence in shops was gone, it was out of people's sights and radars.

Such a bad reputation is far worse than any possible product flop, because Nikon and Canon and Sony are selling daily tons of product flops and half-baked ideas thanks to firm relationships with distributors.
I had not heard this before. Was the problem Pentax, the company that made the gear or the distributor companies in one or more markets who treated the retailers badly?
02-02-2014, 07:08 AM   #58
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The combination of:

Small/leightweight
WR/AW
Reasonable priced
Very interesting primes
02-02-2014, 07:59 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
I can probably consider myself a fan of Pentax cameras. But I am worry about the brand, and how it stand out in the crowd to survive.

The strengths of Pentax that make it unique, are slowly gone....
1. Smaller DSLR - gone, not considering the mirrorless, it is not the smallest DSLR anymore.
2. Weather seal - gone, many have gone this route, the new Fuji's X-T1 is weather seal, even the Sony A7 is.
3. K-mount - access to thousands of cheap, old lenses, gone, mirrorless essentially make a 'universal' mount;
4. In-body stabilization - OK, I give PENTAX this.
5. buttons, wheels, ease of access - gone, look at the direct controls these new cameras got.
6. "Best in value", long gone.
7. SMC? gone, everyone have one and even now we replace it with that stupid "HD" designation.

Video certainly not the best, flash system not the best, ISO performance no longer claim the best in APSC (like K5), ergonomics is a personal things.
I think Pentax is unique because it has some unique practical features other company don't have like SR framing compensation, AF point EV link, can use AA battery with grip and its unique natural OOC colours( And I like that, that's reason I recently joined the system even as an EX-Canon user and current Sony user) and their ability to get out so much from Sony sensors

About your points:

1. Size: I agree mirrorless has advantage, but ergonomics few mirrorrless can match K 3 or K 5 & K 5II/S, OMD EM1 and XT1 are two that come to my mind
2. Weather sealing: Agree. Olympus is good at that too, and top end DSLRs are all good, personally put a few high CaNikon and Sonys to the test for raining weathers.
3. Agree, Nikon(especially Df) and Sony/Minolta( A mount directly and E mount via adaptor) has access to many old lenses too
4. Actually Minolta is the first one who had IBIS(SR) in their camera bodies and Sony borrowed it and now Olympus took it to another level ( 5 axis IBIS), not really an Pentax advantage, in fact, I own Sony, Oly and Pentax bodies and I say in real life all give me 2- max 3 stop of stability.
5.This one is personal preference, but I do agree on the 4 way buttons, holding the AF button for 2 sec then you can change the AF point is not exactly the most convenient on my K 5 II
6. Huh i thought you can always get cheapest prices from Canon if you really dig hard enough in grey market?
7. Not sure about SMC, but yes everyone's lens is mutil-coated these days.

Video: It is a given, Canon, Sony, Panasonic is up there and Pentax is not.....
Flash: this one I'm not sure.
ISO: Nah I think K 5 II/S still holds the APSC crown. Loose to D7100? I don't see that's case, yes they are very close. K 3 maybe draws D7100. Lose to Fuji?? No way, X trans has low noise yes but always eats details for dinner not to mention LR and Fuji RAW are just not good friends ( one of my good friend has 2 Fujis I played with it many times and I'm not impress of the its so called great high ISO performance)

In the end, I agree Pentax need to act on the lenses part to introduce more key lenses like DA* 35 f1.4, 24mm f1.4 and 11- 16mm f2.8 lens and work on the AF speed area and SDM and put a joystick to improve quick AF point switch, but other than that Pentax is still unique and deserve to be considered for its practicality and artistic rendering reasons.

After using many systems and tested/played with many DSLRs and mirrorless from friends, I really realised the saying "The grass is not greener on the othersider means", every system has its own strength and weakness it is just the matter of to find the best for your need, at particular situations. Letís be content with what we have and be glad that the system is not dead and appreciate photography
02-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ColiNiloK Quote
be glad that the system is not dead and appreciate photography
Hear, hear!
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