Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-20-2014, 03:50 PM   #211
Veteran Member
patarok's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 351
QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I think a good next steps would probably be K-50 and K-500 since they are probably identical HW/SW and will have only the most minute changes between firmware. They represent a lot of Pentax's highest volume products in recent years. They are also affordable enough that someone might be willing to take risks with them.

After that I would say K-3 b/c by the time it gets off the ground, it would also reach that affordablity threshold where someone is willing to risk bricking it. K-3 is probably going to be the perfect jump off for 645Z, K-3 Mk2, or other successor product.
Yeah leave out k-5, k-5ii, and k-5iis because people buy k-50s at the moment . And don't forget the upcoming k-60, k-600, k-70 and k-700...

;*P

04-20-2014, 08:47 PM   #212
Inactive Account




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Orleans
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,053
QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
Yeah leave out k-5, k-5ii, and k-5iis because people buy k-50s at the moment . And don't forget the upcoming k-60, k-600, k-70 and k-700...

;*P
As was mentioned, K-5 (x) and previous generations used a much different architecture. Expending effort on them would be a waste. A major shift happened with the K-01, things stabilized with the K-30 and K-3 represents the next platform, there probably will be a K-50 replacement either this fall or winter based off of some derivative of K-3 tech. As far as camera bodies go, especially modding their firmware, why waste effort dwelling on the past?

It may be 6-12 months before this PHDK has a "killer app" and when it does, you want it to be available on something people can buy new or used.
04-20-2014, 09:36 PM   #213
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,222
QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
As was mentioned, K-5 (x) and previous generations used a much different architecture. Expending effort on them would be a waste. A major shift happened with the K-01, things stabilized with the K-30 and K-3 represents the next platform, there probably will be a K-50 replacement either this fall or winter based off of some derivative of K-3 tech. As far as camera bodies go, especially modding their firmware, why waste effort dwelling on the past?

It may be 6-12 months before this PHDK has a "killer app" and when it does, you want it to be available on something people can buy new or used.
A waste?
I don't think so. We didn't even confirmed K5 had no ARM cpu.
Besides, bricking a K5 really isn't *that* expensive compared the a bricked K3.

In the end, more older and/or simpler the camera is, more it can make use of firmware tweaking.
It doesn't mean the K5 should be the top priority though.
04-20-2014, 09:42 PM   #214
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nelson B.C.
Posts: 3,241
It isn't a waste. Part of the process is figuring out how Pentax structures it's software. There are big differences between bodies, but many of the routines would be well established and shared between implementations.

As well, developing a toolchain, that can decrypt the firmware files, and can be used to build a burnable image will probably be applicable to other bodies, or at least provide a starting point.

And the usual reminder with these endeavors; if you really want something you more than likely will have to write it yourself.

04-20-2014, 09:53 PM   #215
mee
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,678
Both CHDK and Magic Latern work on rather ancient camera bodies.. so why not the K-5 series?

That said, I suspect this will be a long long development project to get to that level.. so perhaps looking at the K-3 *would* be a wise next camera to pick since it will likely be old and cheapish to buy by that time.
04-21-2014, 01:01 AM - 1 Like   #216
Veteran Member
patarok's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 351
Thread Dilution

It seems to me that this discussion is sense and meaningless, like a discussion about what the Pentax FF should look like and what features it has got to have.
It is so damn clear, that everybody who owns this or that camera, would like to see shodan setting up the hack for it as next step in PHDK development...
If I wanted to, i could easily find arguments to leave out K-50, or K-500...
Besides that i want to ask myself, why words like "why waste effort dwelling with the past?" and "you want it to be available on something that people can buy new or used" appear in a post now, when not even one fundamental modification is running on any cam at the time writing.
I can buy a K-5II NEW if i want to now. Also i can order a brand new K-r every moment on amazon or ebay.
This could go on and on...
But , let me remind you:
Most of the people in this thread want to watch shodans progress. Please do not dilute it!
If you really want the camera that you own, to be the next on shodans list, you can go, buy the same body again and donate it to him.
I am sure he would be happy about that, and it would raise the chances, that your cam is next.
...
04-21-2014, 02:44 AM   #217
Forum Member
Shodan's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Original Poster
QuoteQuote:
Both CHDK and Magic Latern work on rather ancient camera bodies.. so why not the K-5 series?
CHDK and Magic Lantern both use ARM based CPUs. I'm pretty sure the K5 uses FP. Imagine taking all the work I've done and binning it - that's what will happen if you want an FP based camera.

I know everyone wants their own camera to be supported but as yet there is nothing to support. Better to get something working on as many platforms as possible, get people interested and others hacking. At that point you'll starting seeing killer functionality.

---------- Post added 04-21-14 at 10:46 AM ----------

QuoteQuote:
If you really want the camera that you own, to be the next on shodans list, you can go, buy the same body again and donate it to him.
Yep! Beggars can't be choosers!
04-21-2014, 05:09 AM   #218
mee
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,678
QuoteOriginally posted by Shodan Quote
CHDK and Magic Lantern both use ARM based CPUs. I'm pretty sure the K5 uses FP. Imagine taking all the work I've done and binning it - that's what will happen if you want an FP based camera.

I know everyone wants their own camera to be supported but as yet there is nothing to support. Better to get something working on as many platforms as possible, get people interested and others hacking. At that point you'll starting seeing killer functionality.
Do you suspect there might be a firmware development for the K7/K5 series cameras at some point then? I mean killer functionality for the K-30/K-50 would be fantastic. But I'm confused at the scope of your project. Perhaps some clarification on what you plan to see in the future would help everyone align with your goals. Is this strictly going to be a firmware hack for the K-30 and modern processor based Pentax bodies? Do you plan to branch out to other Pentax cameras? What is 'killer functionality' with respect to the camera bodies in question?

I don't mean to dismiss the hard work you have done, but rather would like to align our goals with your goals on the project. So far, from your OP, I can only see that you are working on restarting Pentax firmware hacking on the K-30 and have goals on getting a framework rolling. But no mention of dream potential features or modifications once the framework is working. Where would YOU like to see this project arrive?

04-21-2014, 05:21 AM - 1 Like   #219
Site Supporter
jcdoss's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,847
I hope opening up this topic to public discourse has resulted in more donations than whining, because the whining is making me wish to ignore this thread.
04-21-2014, 09:55 AM - 2 Likes   #220
Forum Member




Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 71
I would much rather thank Shodan for the outstanding work he has done and is still doing. *thumbs up*

Whatever his goals are, he is investing a lot and plans to even share it - where all others only consume for free. His goals certainly need no "aligning" whatsoever. He is free to make any and all decisions to his personal liking only (all the while he has already shown that he aims to help others).
We can make "wishes" as kids do to Santa Claus, but no more.

Be humble.

@Shodan: You mentioned providing a "demo"-feature such as JPG quality setting as one of your first targets.
If you feel like it you may have a look at the single most wanted firmware feature of all times (seems to be majority opinion if I read forums right):
Ability to switch SDM lenses to screwdrive (force screwdrive).
Implementing an optional software switch in firmware for this would make a lot of people very happy.
That would be one item on the list to Santa Claus.
04-21-2014, 10:11 AM   #221
Pentaxian
geomez's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Preskitt Arizona
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,627
Uhh, I have a *ist DS. I'm sure the ten of us on here that still have that camera would be greatly disappointed if you don't develope hacked firmware for our cameras.

---------- Post added 04-21-14 at 10:13 AM ----------

In all seriousness, I've got much love for you and work. Sharing your passions for your endeavors. I'm happy to spectate.

Last edited by geomez; 04-21-2014 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Emoticons didn't render properly
04-21-2014, 10:36 AM - 3 Likes   #222
Forum Member
Shodan's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Original Poster
It's easy to assume that everyone understands the direction i'm going. However in the real world not everyone has used firmware enhancements such as CHDK or Magic Lantern or understands the great deal of technical work it requires to enable anyone to have a go at writing software that runs on a DSLR. Most people are happy to point and shoot, any why not!

So for the avoidance of doubt.

PHDK will be a community driven platform to build a free firmware enhancement for all cameras using a Pentax Prime M or newer. The overall aim is to put Pentax firmware modifications in a similar league to that of Canon cameras. For Pentax owners who only use Auto or Scene modes it will have little value but for anyone who flirts with Manual it will open a world of possibilities.

At present I have no plans to implement specific enhancements as I am just at the point of being able to put custom text on screen. However the kind of things I would expect (given enough time) are:
  • Increasing the quality of JPEG images
  • Increasing the quality of videos, perhaps even enabling auto focus during filming.
  • Custom post processing filters
  • Special modes - for example an astro tracing mode that turns of noise reduction.
  • Custom display overlays for live view
  • External GPS support - for example being able to pair your phone with a SanDisk WiFi SD card and use it to embed GPS data into your photos.
  • Scripting! - Automating any operation, say time lapse with automatic exposure changes

PHDK doesn't exist yet., there is no community. It is just me, hacking the K-30 because that's what I have. At the moment I have very little to offer the Pentax community, Yet when I am able to do some of the cool things listed above I want as many people to benefit as possible. I should be able to take the knowledge that I have and 'port' functionality to other devices in much quicker time than its taken me to get this far.

Take a look at the CHDK project as a great example of how this works CHDK Wiki. It supports a huge range of devices that are all based broadly round the same software. CHDK provides a platform to write extensions that are compatible with a large number of devices. I hope to do the same with a similarly named project PHDK.

QuoteQuote:
I hope opening up this topic to public discourse has resulted in more donations than whining, because the whining is making me wish to ignore this thread.
I would like to thank everyone who has donated so far. You have allowed me to get another K-30 and not brick my own! In one day I learnt more about the internal workings of the camera than ever before. If you donated and are one of the people 'whining' then go ahead - my opinion is that you've paid for the right. Anyway this is an open forum, I post status updates in the hope of getting a community motivated around this. Just me on my own is going to take a long time...

Whilst I would love to be able to say that all Pentax DSLRs will be supported this just wont happen. For the non technical people I would liken it to speaking a different language. Older Pentax's say the K5 are written in a language say Russian. Prime M and above like the K-30 are written in Arabic. The differences between Arabic and Russian are great! (أنا أتكلم بعض عربية). I would love everyone to have access to it but unless Pentax makes it easy by giving out some technical specifications of their software (unlikely) I don't have time to learn another language to the extent I would need.

Anyway, at this time all I want to know what is the most popular Prime-M or newer camera on the forums is. It might be a good idea for someone to find out, probably in another post.

I'll also keep everyone up to date, firstly for those that donated and secondly because I want to keep everyone enthusiastic!
04-21-2014, 11:30 AM   #223
Inactive Account




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Orleans
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,053
QuoteOriginally posted by Shodan Quote
Anyway, at this time all I want to know what is the most popular Prime-M or newer camera on the forums is. It might be a good idea for someone to find out, probably in another post.
@Adam might be able to get this information from his contacts at B&H and Adorama. For pentax, the percentage of K-30, K-50, K-500, and K-3 sold would probably tell you everything you need to know even if they wouldn't disclose absolute numbers.

How about setting up a way for people to vote with their wallets... A donation link for specific cameras in addition to the general one.
04-21-2014, 12:06 PM   #224
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Slovenia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,165
Well... According to Flickr, the cameras rank as K-5 (K-5, K-5 II and K-5 IIs combined), K-30 and K-x. That makes the K-30 (Possibly the K-50 and K-500 are counted here too?) the one to develop for. Would you lookitdat, you alreay have one
04-21-2014, 04:22 PM   #225
mee
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,678
QuoteOriginally posted by Shodan Quote
It's easy to assume that everyone understands the direction i'm going. However in the real world not everyone has used firmware enhancements such as CHDK or Magic Lantern or understands the great deal of technical work it requires to enable anyone to have a go at writing software that runs on a DSLR. Most people are happy to point and shoot, any why not!

So for the avoidance of doubt.

PHDK will be a community driven platform to build a free firmware enhancement for all cameras using a Pentax Prime M or newer. The overall aim is to put Pentax firmware modifications in a similar league to that of Canon cameras. For Pentax owners who only use Auto or Scene modes it will have little value but for anyone who flirts with Manual it will open a world of possibilities.

At present I have no plans to implement specific enhancements as I am just at the point of being able to put custom text on screen. However the kind of things I would expect (given enough time) are:
  • Increasing the quality of JPEG images
  • Increasing the quality of videos, perhaps even enabling auto focus during filming.
  • Custom post processing filters
  • Special modes - for example an astro tracing mode that turns of noise reduction.
  • Custom display overlays for live view
  • External GPS support - for example being able to pair your phone with a SanDisk WiFi SD card and use it to embed GPS data into your photos.
  • Scripting! - Automating any operation, say time lapse with automatic exposure changes

PHDK doesn't exist yet., there is no community. It is just me, hacking the K-30 because that's what I have. At the moment I have very little to offer the Pentax community, Yet when I am able to do some of the cool things listed above I want as many people to benefit as possible. I should be able to take the knowledge that I have and 'port' functionality to other devices in much quicker time than its taken me to get this far.

Take a look at the CHDK project as a great example of how this works CHDK Wiki. It supports a huge range of devices that are all based broadly round the same software. CHDK provides a platform to write extensions that are compatible with a large number of devices. I hope to do the same with a similarly named project PHDK.



I would like to thank everyone who has donated so far. You have allowed me to get another K-30 and not brick my own! In one day I learnt more about the internal workings of the camera than ever before. If you donated and are one of the people 'whining' then go ahead - my opinion is that you've paid for the right. Anyway this is an open forum, I post status updates in the hope of getting a community motivated around this. Just me on my own is going to take a long time...

Whilst I would love to be able to say that all Pentax DSLRs will be supported this just wont happen. For the non technical people I would liken it to speaking a different language. Older Pentax's say the K5 are written in a language say Russian. Prime M and above like the K-30 are written in Arabic. The differences between Arabic and Russian are great! (أنا أتكلم بعض عربية). I would love everyone to have access to it but unless Pentax makes it easy by giving out some technical specifications of their software (unlikely) I don't have time to learn another language to the extent I would need.

Anyway, at this time all I want to know what is the most popular Prime-M or newer camera on the forums is. It might be a good idea for someone to find out, probably in another post.

I'll also keep everyone up to date, firstly for those that donated and secondly because I want to keep everyone enthusiastic!
Thank you for taking the time to explain in some depth the view for your project. I surely hope you understood my comments were not whining or meant to be negativistic, but rather confusion and lack of understanding of what the project was aiming to do! (Just saying 'like CHDK or Magic Latern' is vague I think)

The bullets certainly read excitingly!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
bit, camera, card, chdk, code, data, debug, dslr, file, firmware, flash, fp, gps, instruction, k-30, k-50, k30, love, magic, module, notes, pentax, photography, pin, pins, sd, text
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NY area SDM Hacking dappercorpmonkey Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 11 07-26-2013 04:15 PM
Nature Resurrecting some old images - Angry Birds! Julie Post Your Photos! 4 03-07-2013 10:41 AM
k-5 firmware hacking anyone? secateurs Pentax K-5 33 10-05-2012 03:05 PM
Hacking lens' memory plis Visitors' Center 6 11-28-2011 10:58 PM
Resurrecting a MX and Super ME LiMPiNg Pentax Film SLR Discussion 4 09-27-2011 02:55 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:43 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top