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04-15-2008, 06:05 PM   #1
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K200D noise vs K10D

Does anyone have any info on whether the noise at higher ISOs on the K200D is better than that of the K10D??

Bob

04-15-2008, 06:25 PM   #2
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Isn't the sensor the same on both cameras? If so, wouldn't the noise be the same?
04-15-2008, 06:48 PM   #3
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Same sensor yes-I guess what I'm wondering is if they changed the way JPEGs are processed in camera.
04-15-2008, 09:38 PM   #4
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The K200 does not seem to suffer from VPN so in that sense the noise at high ISO is improved. The ISO 1600 shots I have taken seem very acceptable to me. I don't have a K10 to directly compare to, but it seems from the photos I have seen so far that the Jpegs are improved at all ISOs. It is really hard to compare images because noise is very dependent on ambient light - a f/5.6 1/250 high iso photo will usually come off looking better than one like this image that was taken as a Jpeg at ISO 1600 with the 40mm wide open at 1/20s.


Mike

04-16-2008, 08:45 AM   #5
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Mike: That observation is very helpful. I think your photo is very good considering it is ISO 1600.

What lens did you use?

Bob
04-16-2008, 08:33 PM   #6
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Lens used

It was the DA 40mm Ltd. at f/2.8

Mike
04-16-2008, 10:13 PM   #7
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How big are the .jpg file sizes that the K200D and K20D produce?
04-17-2008, 06:37 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by wasupdoc Quote
The K200 does not seem to suffer from VPN

Mike
What is VPN (other than virtual private network)?

04-17-2008, 07:21 AM   #9
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VPN is Vertical Pattern Noise - noise in dark areas of high iso shots that seemed to be arranged in vertical bands - yes much the same as the banding that created such a storm when the Nikon D200 was released. Much overblown in general but it was claimed to have ruined a few K10 high iso shots.
The K200 jpegs are 3-4 Mb in size.
Mike
04-17-2008, 11:17 AM   #10
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A lot of people report that the K200 has excellant image quality at high iso. That includes me.
I don't have a k10 to compare it with ,but from the hundreds of posts about the k10d , this was one of the many weaknesses (issues), corrected with the k20d, & k2ood . Whatever they added or tweaked, they did it right.
04-17-2008, 12:41 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by wasupdoc Quote
The K200 does not seem to suffer from VPN so in that sense the noise at high ISO is improved. The ISO 1600 shots I have taken seem very acceptable to me. I don't have a K10 to directly compare to, but it seems from the photos I have seen so far that the Jpegs are improved at all ISOs. It is really hard to compare images because noise is very dependent on ambient light - a f/5.6 1/250 high iso photo will usually come off looking better than one like this image that was taken as a Jpeg at ISO 1600 with the 40mm wide open at 1/20s.

Mike
Mike,

I would say from what I've read and the experience I've had with the K10 and K100 that the opposite of what you said is true. The longer exposure (1/20) will yield less noise than a shorter exposure (1/250) for the same ISO for a frame with the same overall exposure. The sensor has longer to sample the light, therefore more photons hit repeatedly in the same pixels yeilding a more accurate rendering of the color for that sample. I've noticed that when using Auto ISO in Program mode on the K10, the camera will set the shutter speed down to 1/30, and I believe saw one time to 1/15th. I guess it knew SR was on!

Hope that makes sense.

IMHO Chuck.
04-17-2008, 01:18 PM   #12
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Chuck,
I may be totally wrong, but what I was referring to was different lighting between two photos not different settings to capture the same lighting. If there is enough light to allow you to both stop down the lens and increase the shutter speed then there will be less apparent noise. This is probably due in part to the increased contrast that goes along with increased ambient light in real world shots, but in my experience high iso comes off looking a lot better in brightly lit scenes.
But it is well known that very long exposures have much increased noise (hence the technique of dark field subtraction). Maybe if you graphed noise vs. exposure time you would get a 'U' shaped curve, but I have not seen that put forth as a concept anywhere, i.e. if 8 seconds gives more noise than .5 seconds (it does) then at what point does it switch over so that the shorter exposure starts to give more noise? I don't think that is the case.
Mike
04-17-2008, 10:19 PM   #13
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Mike,

You are correct in the fact that in brightly lit scenes 1600 ISO shot comes off looking much better. I felt that the statement about faster shutter speed might be a bit misleading to the OP. I think your right when you say it would look like a "U". I did about an hour of test shots to see if this was the case. I didn't find anything conclusive. I ran the K10 with a Tamron 28-75 @ ISO 1600, f2.8 through f32 in aprox 1 stop increments and from what I can tell the noise levels aren't appreciably better or worse. I did notice about a random 1/3 stop variation from aperature to aperature which makes it almost impossible to determine exactly how much noise is being generated on each shot. Apparently, manually or with metering the f4 on my Tamron opens slightly more resulting in a better exposed image with good sharpness and less noise. The shot at 2.8 was a little soft but I couldn't see any difference in noise amount.
In conclusion, I don't see anything to substaintiate my earlier claim. I'm reading too much. Need to go out and take more photos and stop splitting hairs. Here are a few samples just to show I did follow up.

Chuck

4 - 100% center crops. All images taken in incandescent light at 1600 ISO. Shot in raw, post processed with SilkyPix DS3.0. No sharpening or noise reduction applied. In camera NR was off.



f4 @ 1/5 sec



f11 @ 1.6 sec



f16 @ 3 sec



f22 @ 8 sec
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