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03-30-2014, 12:51 PM   #1
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buy a new camera or new kit?

I shoot with a Kr and recently acquired a 50-200 lens and I am going to purchase a 35mm f2.4 soon.

My question is would you folks say it's better to save up for a better camera e.g the k-30 or save up and buy better lenses etc.

curious to see.

03-30-2014, 01:10 PM   #2
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i think you should go with a better lens...here's something interesting for you to watch:

03-30-2014, 01:14 PM   #3
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Cameras come and go, Glass is forever.

Get the 35mm f/2.4 which is a pretty good lens by all reports and see how it does on your k-r. If you are happy then stick with the k-r for now. If not, then it might be time to think about a new body. The k-r is starting to get a bit dated so in your case I think either option would likely show a difference. But in most cases the answer to your question is buy better glass.
03-30-2014, 01:17 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by hmirchev Quote
i think you should go with a better lens...here's something interesting for you to watch:

Pro DSLR + Cheapo Lens vs "Cheapo" DSLR + Pro Lens - YouTube
That video is great

With that said, the K-r is an entry-level model and more advanced cameras may certain secondary features that will enhance your photography, i.e. larger viewfinders, better handling, weather sealing, etc, not to mention better sensors.

I would focus on lenses but also consider upgrading the K-r to a K-5 II, K-50, or K-3 later on.


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03-30-2014, 01:42 PM   #5
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Regardless of the camera body, you will still need lenses. Unless you really need the features a new body offers, invest in lenses for now. The technology in cameras is constantly changing and there is always something new. Good lenses will last for years. I'm still using my first Takumar 55/2 that came with my SP1000 purchased back in the 70's.
03-30-2014, 02:09 PM   #6
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Well, frankly I don't think the guy in the video is funny at all. I think he makes a mockery of the situation, which even in the context of the underlying point being accurate......the way he was treating the equipment it makes me question his photographic skills.

The truth is I have a lens similar to the Sigma he used and I have taken some excellent photos with it. And that's even with it on the entry level K-r, K-x, and *istDL. To say it's more about understanding how to use a camera/lens combo is a massive understatement after watching the video.

Other ironies include:

- Yes, cameras do come and go.....but that's the point as well. He even said himself in the video "they go out of date eventually". The body is a tool, but as Adam suggested there are better bodies that do take better photos in many situations, offer more versatility in various conditions, and have the ability to stand up to a more rugged environment.

- If you have enough money to buy a 1DMark lV, then you probably can get an L lens at some point as well.

- Conversely, if you can only afford an entry level body then you are likely to only get cheaper glass as well. But I think the distinction becomes...... is cheap always bad? I think a lot of it is in the connotation of the word "cheap". The point being you can find decent glass for less money if you are patient enough.


Not disagreeing with the basic premise. I have entry level DSLR's and they work well. But I also understand their limitations, and I could see how having a better body in certain situations would help me as a photographer (regardless of glass). The good news is the standard for an entry level and the features, quality of sensor (I think we have the K-x to thanks for that), etc. has improved dramatically without spending any more to get one. I paid the same amount for my K-r that I did for my DL.......and you can get a K50 now for around the same price as the K-r was when it came out, and by all accounts it's far superior in many ways.

Ultimately, it's more about the photographer no matter which lens you put on what camera. And I have no doubt that I could take better photos than the ones taken in the video with the Sigma lens used.

Last edited by ccd333; 03-30-2014 at 02:50 PM.
03-30-2014, 03:06 PM   #7
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When it comes to IQ you are buying a sensor with your camera body. Get the best sensor for the lowest price and put the rest of your cash into glass.
03-30-2014, 03:17 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ccd333 Quote
Well, frankly I don't think the guy in the video is funny at all. I think he makes a mockery of the situation, which even in the context of the underlying point being accurate......the way he was treating the equipment it makes me question his photographic skills.

The truth is I have a lens similar to the Sigma he used and I have taken some excellent photos with it. And that's even with it on the entry level K-r, K-x, and *istDL. To say it's more about understanding how to use a camera/lens combo is a massive understatement after watching the video.

Other ironies include:

- Yes, cameras do come and go.....but that's the point as well. He even said himself in the video "they go out of date eventually". The body is a tool, but as Adam suggested there are better bodies that do take better photos in many situations, offer more versatility in various conditions, and have the ability to stand up to a more rugged environment.

- If you have enough money to buy a 1DMark lV, then you probably can get an L lens at some point as well.

- Conversely, if you can only afford an entry level body then you are likely to only get cheaper glass as well. But I think the distinction becomes...... is cheap always bad? I think a lot of it is in the connotation of the word "cheap". The point being you can find decent glass for less money if you are patient enough.


Not disagreeing with the basic premise. I have entry level DSLR's and they work well. But I also understand their limitations, and I could see how having a better body in certain situations would help me as a photographer (regardless of glass). The good news is the standard for an entry level and the features, quality of sensor (I think we have the K-x to thanks for that), etc. has improved dramatically without spending any more to get one. I paid the same amount for my K-r that I did for my DL.......and you can get a K50 now for around the same price as the K-r was when it came out, and by all accounts it's far superior in many ways.

Ultimately, it's more about the photographer no matter which lens you put on what camera. And I have no doubt that I could take better photos than the ones taken in the video with the Sigma lens used.
digitalrev videos are always like this...
I hate Kai's accent and his poor treatment of expensive cameras (dropping them "accidentally"...) but after a while you realize this is just their style... and can be quite funny if you get past that. He is a Nikon/Canon fanboy, and more a Leica fanboy, and shows that in his videos, but hey, at least he did not pretend he is biased and he mocking of fanboy is funny too.



03-30-2014, 03:43 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
digitalrev videos are always like this...
I hate Kai's accent and his poor treatment of expensive cameras (dropping them "accidentally"...) but after a while you realize this is just their style... and can be quite funny if you get past that.

I've seen several of his videos. Someone just having a style does not make them appealing. He can do whatever he wants, but to me there's a difference between not taking things too seriously and acting so silly you lose credibility in your message.

I see photography as an art form with a certain degree of dignity involved, so i doubt I will ever get past his "style".
03-30-2014, 04:03 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ccd333 Quote
- Conversely, if you can only afford an entry level body then you are likely to only get cheaper glass as well.
Hi CCD,
I don't disagree with this, but many times (particularly with a new user) the fact that they have a starter body (and maybe a kit lens) doesn't necessarily mean it was all they could afford. They're starting out and didn't know what level they would want to pursue. By the time they post here, they're looking forward to better glass and maybe a newer body, too.
And I think most of the replies here mirror that. Do they need 8fps? Adjustable AA filter? 2 SD card slots? Not that those are the only reason to upgrade to a K-3, but the point is; Buy a body because you need certain features, or are pretty sure you will. Otherwise, better glass will yield more I.Q. improvement per $$. And, it doesn't wear out, become outdated or obsolete. Generally.
JMO,
Ron
03-30-2014, 04:17 PM   #11
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Way back I upgraded my K-x to a K-5, while still having the kit 18-55 and a 55-300mm. I remember be scolded on this forum, and told by a few members I should have spent money on lenses instead However, I was really excited about the capabilities and the flexibility of the K-5, and loved the quality of it compared to the K-x, so I couldn't care less. Got into a photo club, got LBA, and went through well over a dozen lenses since then...


If I had to justify my current lens collection and camera collection I couldn't do it. To the point of ccd333 there are talented photographers out there who makes do with much less than what I have, and take better pictures than what I do. And since I am not making a living off of it, it really just comes the enjoyment of using my equipment, and the satisfaction of a great picture that I (and sometimes others) enjoy...


SO - you'll get the best bang for the buck by buying lenses (primes hold their value best), and the 35m F2.4 is a great place to start. Try it out, but don't be afraid to spend your money on something you enjoy, like a better camera body, even if you arguably would get better pictures buying, say,a good tripod..


My point is you can be all rational, but if you loose the interest it doesn't really matter, does it...
03-30-2014, 04:17 PM   #12
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I think buying the DA 35mm f2.4 is a good idea. The lens will be a good lens even on a camera you will buy later. The DA 50-200mm might be the limiting factor, though. Even on a K-3, it won't produce photos that much better than the ones you get on your K-r.
If you want to save money, think of buying a used DA 35mm and a used DA 50mm. Those two will give you a wonderful kit for higher quality work.
Btw, do you shoot jpeg or raw? If you don't already take raw photos and post process them yourself, you should start. This is a significant step.
I would only go upgrading from the K-r if it is a) malfunctioning or b) missing features that you need. If you need faster bust mode, if you need 16MP for larger prints, if you need weather resistance, ...

But I will also admit that yes, the 16MP sensor of the K-5 and later cameras (K-01, K-30, K-50, K-500), is better than the one in the K-r. I would still recommend lens upgrades before camera upgrades. Just make sure the lens you buy is actually better than the ones you already have. The DA 35mm, DA 40mm XS, DA 50mm all fit the bill. As do all the limited lenses, but those are a little more pricey. Look at Samyang if you want IQ on budget (but without AF). The good thing about Pentax is that all K mount lenses fit your camera, so you can go and buy any old Pentax lens and it should fit without a hitch. Its a good way to get good IQ on a budget. Lots of members here start this journey by buying a Pentax M 50mm f1.7 or Pentax A 50mm f1.7 (the A is a little more pricey since it allows more automation).

Btw, you can use the sample photo search to find photos taken with the K-r, so you can see what different photographers can squeeze out of it with various lenses:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/samplesearch.php

Last edited by Na Horuk; 03-30-2014 at 05:15 PM.
03-30-2014, 05:00 PM - 1 Like   #13
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I'm starting out and I only have the older lenses..the good old Takumars..maybe they arent as easy to use and arent as convenient as the newer lenses with AF and so on, but I think that fully manual controls on a camera are the way to go, especially if yoh haven't used a film SLR before. Those lenses have great prices for quality glass..without all the extras of today's lenses...with that said..i also collect vinyl records because they are better than CD's..so i guess im more drawn to the older tech..even though i'm 18 i still shoot film haha
03-30-2014, 05:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hi CCD,
I don't disagree with this, but many times (particularly with a new user) the fact that they have a starter body (and maybe a kit lens) doesn't necessarily mean it was all they could afford. They're starting out and didn't know what level they would want to pursue. By the time they post here, they're looking forward to better glass and maybe a newer body, too.
And I think most of the replies here mirror that. Do they need 8fps? Adjustable AA filter? 2 SD card slots? Not that those are the only reason to upgrade to a K-3, but the point is; Buy a body because you need certain features, or are pretty sure you will. Otherwise, better glass will yield more I.Q. improvement per $$. And, it doesn't wear out, become outdated or obsolete. Generally.
JMO,
Ron
Absolutely, Ron. Everyone has those decisions to make and each one has a certain amount of relevance. I think some of that is want vs need. Sometimes photographers may not fully know what they want until they actually try a more advanced camera. It's similar to the upgrade from a point and shoot. All I knew before I bought my first DSLR was that it meant less noise and improved image quality. But as you use it and get familiar with the settings/improvements you grow to appreciate what a more expensive camera has to offer. It's not that you necessarily NEED 8fps (or other upgraded features), but having that option is less confining and provides the latitude to experiment. In that regard, I think if I could have spent more on a nicer body I would have done so from the outset. Certainly there's something to be said for learning gradually by upgrading incrementally, but ultimately the total learning curve can be assimilated by going for the best body you want to buy and can afford. So as much as it might be about evaluating needs for some, for others it might be more about their desire to have something better and then see where it takes them.

To that point, I have seen many people come on this forum and ask what camera to buy.......and even if they have never tried a DSLR, they still are interested, and most people have suggested, in buying a K3 or K5iis. And many seem willing to sacrifice financially, sometimes well beyond their budgetary constraints, in order to get a body of that caliber. That is probably what prompted the video maker to mention (as the second photographer) the idea of purchasing such an expensive body left them with no money left for lenses. But I would say what happens more often is:

- the person who is willing to sell their soul to get that nice of a body will also buy the nicer lens at some point.

- the person buys what they can truly afford (ie recognizing other financial obligations) and is always looking for deals on relatively lower quality glass.....in the hopes they may find that "great copy" at a price lower than usual (ie Ebay is your friend).

For those who can afford getting both easily, I think they probably will. I don't know too many people with lots of money who will buy something that is perceived to be inferior just because they may not be "ready" for something better.

---------- Post added 03-30-14 at 05:17 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by hmirchev Quote
I'm starting out and I only have the older lenses..the good old Takumars..maybe they arent as easy to use and arent as convenient as the newer lenses with AF and so on, but I think that fully manual controls on a camera are the way to go, especially if yoh haven't used a film SLR before. Those lenses have great prices for quality glass..without all the extras of today's lenses...with that said..i also collect vinyl records because they are better than CD's..so i guess im more drawn to the older tech..even though i'm 18 i still shoot film haha
I hear that. Nice avatar by the way. Love that album.
03-30-2014, 05:28 PM   #15
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I like Kai's videos. Yes, he does exhibit bias at times but not really as much as you think. He really does praise and cheer on the underdog at times.




---------- Post added 03-30-14 at 08:42 PM ----------

Incidentally, DigitalRev has done a series of videos where they have gotten some of the most well known photographers today and have given each one the cheapest low quality digital camera they could find and they challenged them to get good results. And they did. The whole series that Kai and his cohorts did was to emphasize that skill matters much more than gear, and that does a great service to the newbies getting started. Here is an excellent example:




I can see why the photog they challenged is good, he is certainly personable and able to persuade folks to work with him.
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