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04-14-2014, 01:00 PM   #16
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jatrax &
ChristianRock

I think you summed it up for me guys, thanks a lot :-) calmed my worrying mind LOL
I think I will get another K5 for the time being as a backup camera, and the lenses I mentioned and as you suggest use it till it is restricting me or until I need full frame - if ever!

Many thanks for your assistance

---------- Post added 04-14-14 at 09:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Is the D700 much better than the K-5 at low light? I think the D700 probably is a hair better, but the difference might not be that dramatic as the D700 is a generation-older sensor.

disco, do you post-process your photos?
Hi ElJamoquio,

I use LR5 mainly and PS when required, from what I've read the d700 is almost a stop better...
So yes I shoot RAW and always process the best 'picks' to a point where iso 3200 is 'acceptable' for web, but not amazing for larger prints, ISO 1600 is really the limit for prints I feel. There are exceptions though!

The attached is still acceptable for web and thats shot on k5iis at 6400! but it doesn't always turn out that way!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dean_michael_osborne/12351426413/






Last edited by disco1111; 04-14-2014 at 01:18 PM.
04-14-2014, 01:17 PM - 1 Like   #17
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Understand that if you choose to shoot wedding with Pentax you'll be in a small minority if that means anything to you. The D700 is a proven wedding workhorse which means a big market for new and used wedding-suitable gear—lenses, strobes, etc...

If I were to shoot weddings, I'd likely shoot Nikon.
04-14-2014, 01:47 PM - 1 Like   #18
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A thought -- you might miss that crop sensor if you're stuck at the back of a big venue and trying to get a closeup of a bride and groom.

Ultrawides for crop are cheaper and lighter than super-telephotos for full frame.

1 stop of light isn't that big a difference. You can pull that out in a raw image without noticable noise increase anyway if you're not in an unlit room with no flash.
04-14-2014, 02:40 PM   #19
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I would think that in most night weddings, the use of flash is perfectly fine. And for day weddings, you might convince the newlyweds that a little flash fill goes a long way in making their pictures better
Either way, I think APS-C can handle the necessary light. That would not be the reason to go for a FF system.

04-14-2014, 03:12 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by disco1111 Quote
Hi ElJamoquio,

I use LR5 mainly and PS when required, from what I've read the d700 is almost a stop better...
So yes I shoot RAW and always process the best 'picks' to a point where iso 3200 is 'acceptable' for web, but not amazing for larger prints, ISO 1600 is really the limit for prints I feel. There are exceptions though!

The attached is still acceptable for web and thats shot on k5iis at 6400! but it doesn't always turn out that way!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dean_michael_osborne/12351426413/
OK. Do you want to keep the same DOF of the pictures you're taking? Would you be happier if it was smaller?

At the same DOF, the noise performance of the K-5 is a bit better than the D700. Of course the lenses to get that DOF are generally cheaper on the D700 (as long as we're talking say under F/5 on the K-5).

If you want (or can tolerate) a smaller DOF, the D700 will have a bit better noise.


This of course ignores all the flash, lens availability stuff, etc, so take that into consideration as well...

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 04-14-2014 at 03:18 PM.
04-14-2014, 04:19 PM - 1 Like   #21
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I shoot weddings using K-30. I don't have any experience with neither K5-II nor D700, but here's some of my thoughts if you're interested:

- consider the weight and size factors.
I shoot using two bodies with Sigma 17-50mm on one and Sigma 70-200mm on the other as the main workhorses, and a 12 hour long day is manageable. I once tried a D600 with 24-70mm attached to it and the difference felt huge. Carrying 2 FF cam's, if you will be taking that route, for a long time will be more physically challenging, depending on how well in shape you are.

- I'd buy a D700 within a heartbeat if I could get it cheap enough. Since I haven't tried it, I'm not fully aware of all of it's capabilities and downfalls according to my needs, so I can't be more clear than that. However I currently can't get "that FF look" which alone is a reason enough to get one.

- looking at ISO samples from RAW files looks so-so on various reviews, but looking at user photos, it seems to me that even though D700 is older, it delivers cleaner and sharper photos under low light. This seems to be true for other older FF bodies as well. BUT, I've often shot at ISO 20000, and I'm not sure how the D700 noise will look at such settings. I can imagine newer sensors having a lead here.

- manually focusing can come in handy from time to time. It will be easier using FF body due to the larger viewfinder. I've replaced my focusing screen but that only means I'm on par with a FF cam regarding the screentype, not the size.

On one hand, I'm very pleased with my "compact" set using APS-C, but on the other hand, there is are benefit using FF (mainly ISO and DoF). I'm currently undecided. If I won the lottery then I'd go FF. Till then, or till I find something cheap enough, I'll stick with APS-C and I'm rather OK with it.

Last edited by Zafar Iqbal; 04-14-2014 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Typos
04-15-2014, 09:25 PM - 1 Like   #22
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It sounds as though you're starting out in professional photography, hoping to grow. That's a good place to be -- but keep in mind that before you go wild with equipment buying, you should have the cash flow to pay for it and a clear need to justify it. Nikon may be a better system for wedding shooting than Pentax, but I doubt it's so much better that you have to make the change right now. A used K-5 is probably the most businesslike way to go.
04-15-2014, 09:36 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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Another thing to consider, and sadly one that's not in Pentax's favor: Your favorite wedding lens breaks. You have a wedding tomorrow. Do you have access to rent/borrow/buy a replacement lens in time?

My local camera shop only rents Nikon gear -- maybe a few Canon options, but not much of that. They don't even *sell* Pentax gear (aside from a few random crappy K mount lenses from the 80s in their used case which are listed at probably 8x what they're worth). I don't know anyone else in my area who uses Pentax gear (aside from the bunches of people who have an old K1000 with a 50mm f/2 in their closet). Given that, if i was doing weddings, I'd at minimum buy a couple of just-in-case lenses, even if they weren't as high quality as my DA* lenses -- better than not being able to get the shot at all.

But you may be lucky and be in an area where you have good access to replacement lenses in a bad situation like this.

04-15-2014, 09:49 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Another thing to consider, and sadly one that's not in Pentax's favor: Your favorite wedding lens breaks. You have a wedding tomorrow. Do you have access to rent/borrow/buy a replacement lens in time?

My local camera shop only rents Nikon gear -- maybe a few Canon options, but not much of that. They don't even *sell* Pentax gear (aside from a few random crappy K mount lenses from the 80s in their used case which are listed at probably 8x what they're worth). I don't know anyone else in my area who uses Pentax gear (aside from the bunches of people who have an old K1000 with a 50mm f/2 in their closet). Given that, if i was doing weddings, I'd at minimum buy a couple of just-in-case lenses, even if they weren't as high quality as my DA* lenses -- better than not being able to get the shot at all.

But you may be lucky and be in an area where you have good access to replacement lenses in a bad situation like this.
With the advent of ubiquitous overnight shipping this issue has become less important IMO. And having redundancies of key pieces-bodies, certain focal lengths, strobes, etc...-should be SOP no matter what the brand.
04-15-2014, 10:36 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
With the advent of ubiquitous overnight shipping this issue has become less important IMO. And having redundancies of key pieces-bodies, certain focal lengths, strobes, etc...-should be SOP no matter what the brand.
Have you ever actually tried to get a Pentax lens at the last minute?

CameraLensRentals won't ship for weekend delivery.
Lensrentals only does 2 day shipping, which also doesn't deliver on weekends.
Borrowlenses I'm not 100% sure on since their website won't let me see shipping detail without setting up an account, but they barely have any pentax gear (though they do carry the 50-135 zoom which would probably be the best tele zoom option for a wedding).

Those are the only lens rental services I'm aware of that stock Pentax (are there others? I'd love to know!).

And buying a new lens with overnight shipping is iffy. B&H and Adorama both close friday afternoon and won't ship anything. Amazon, if they have it in stock you can probably get it on time if it's actually amazon and you order early enough in the day. (the last lens I ordered from there was sold by KEH and they didn't ship it for 2-3 days after I ordered & paid for expedited shipping, so I didn't get it til Monday when I'd needed it for a weekend event).

Of course, I think the OP is in the UK, so I have zero idea what his options there are.
04-16-2014, 03:43 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Have you ever actually tried to get a Pentax lens at the last minute?
Actually, yes. Five years ago we had just arrived in Italy to get married. My fiancé's camera bag was stolen. I ordered a Pentax K-M from B&H IIRC, had it shipped overnight to my family's home in NJ and they had it with them when they arrived a couple of days later!
04-16-2014, 09:16 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Actually, yes. Five years ago we had just arrived in Italy to get married. My fiancé's camera bag was stolen. I ordered a Pentax K-M from B&H IIRC, had it shipped overnight to my family's home in NJ and they had it with them when they arrived a couple of days later!
Excellent! But not really my point -- weddings tend to take place on the weekend. Even if you get something shipped to arrive on Saturday, chances are it won't arrive til the afternoon.

There's a lot of comfort in being able to go to the local camera store and rent a lens for a day or two (or buy one). Even if it's not an "I broke my lens the night before the wedding" thing… it could be a "the bride just told me she needs a fisheye photo of the whole wedding party and I don't have a fisheye lens" or some nonsense like that.

The best advice, of course, is to have redundancy in your lenses as well as flashes and bodies and stuff. Even if you can't afford 2 of each DA* or FA* or limited lens, at least have a couple of options for each range… even an 18-250 or something as an emergency backup is better than nothing.
04-16-2014, 11:49 AM   #28
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All these Nikon-rental tips are fine if you happen to live in a community that has a photo store that rents equipment. In general, your best line of defense for equipment failure is redundancy on all levels, even if you shoot Nikon or Canon.
04-16-2014, 01:31 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bkpix Quote
All these Nikon-rental tips are fine if you happen to live in a community that has a photo store that rents equipment. In general, your best line of defense for equipment failure is redundancy on all levels, even if you shoot Nikon or Canon.
Exactly. Repair/replacement is the second line of defense. The first line of defense is redundancy, because even Nikon or Canon can't get you a replacement lens that fails you on the job.

And as a second line of defense, I still stand by my assertion that Amazon/B&H/et. al. have reduced Pentax's shortcomings when compared to Nikon and Canon in this regard.
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