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04-25-2008, 05:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by edumad Quote
snip...........
As anyone been through a phase of focal length restriction?
*LOL, this almost sounds like something you'd go through detoxing from LBA*
Is it worth enduring it, but getting better glass in the end? I know better glass is allways positive, but honestly...?
I went through focal length restrictions on the short end for years, when I shot film, and even when I switched to digital.

with film my widest lens was a 24mm.

when I went to digital, my *istD came with an 18mm-35mm lens. Iin terms of field of view this was equivelent to a 27mm film lens, simply put not wide enough on an ASP-C sensor.

My solution, was to take the 18-35, which was a full frame lens also offered on the *ist film camera, and use it on my PZ-1 and shoot all wide angle shots on film.

I have since boought a 10-20mm sigma and stopped shooting film. during the first full year of shooting with the 10-20 as part of the kit, 12% of ALL my shots were at 10mm. Although I am still focal length restricted to some extent, it is not as serious as it once was and I believe I can live with the present limit.

At the other end of the spectrum, I have and use regularly, a sigma 70-200 F2.8 plus 1.4x and 2x TCs and shoot wild life very often at the maximum focal length limit of this combination.

I am still bothered badly by this limit, as I do enjoy wildlife photography but the next step for me is VERY expensive.

04-25-2008, 07:35 AM   #17
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Wow, you've already got a lot of good advise.
What else is there to say?

I did the FZ-5 to K10D transfer about a year ago and there is something to remember, it is a different kind of photography:

On the downside:
- You'll need to change lenses.
- It is A LOT heavier, bigger.
- It costs MUCH more money
- The FZ-18 28-530mm range (35mm equiv), well stabilised, is something hard to beat
There is no such zoom equivalent and the cost for 500mm+ at f 3.5 is enormous.
Have a look at the Sigma 50-500mm lens:
Dimensions Diameter 95mm X Length 218.5mm
Weight 1842g
SRP £899.99
Try this link: Sigma Imaging (UK) Ltd

On the upside:
- Youíll have MUCH, MUCH better image quality, especially under difficult circumstances. And thatís what it is all about isnít it?
- Youíll have a hobby.
- Youíll have something to spend money on for the coming years!
(Flash, tri/monopod, PP software, lots and lots of lenses, bags, etc etc etc)

Iíd go for the K10D, glass lasts for ever, and replace the K10D by a new model in two/three years from now. Technology in camera bodies goes fast, in lenses not.

Have fun!

- Bert
04-25-2008, 07:48 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
As far as I am concerned, and this comes back from someone who shot B&W film pushed 3 stops to 3200 ISO and color slide film (E6 process) to 1600 ISO, I can tell you that anyone who thinks any DSLR has unacceptable noise at high ISO does not know what they are talking about.
From my limited experience shooting and developing film many years ago I would have to say how right you are. In film days the photographer's decision was how to use the noise that was inevitably present. I don't remember people considering how to banish it completely... this was a pipe dream.
04-25-2008, 07:57 AM   #19
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I have no ilusions that I can get the same mm range of the FZ18. I dont use it all equally, but sometimes its great to have it there. Also, the MEGA O.I.S. might be better.
The extra weight will be an up side in certain circunstances.

What I was saying is that I'm not sure I can have such a drastic reduction in focal range.
Don't shackle my creativity

Thanks everyone for the advice, you've been great.

04-25-2008, 08:06 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Wow, you've already got a lot of good advise.
What else is there to say?

I did the FZ-5 to K10D transfer about a year ago and there is something to remember, it is a different kind of photography:
I think this is th ewhole point. the OP is growing into a different photographer
QuoteQuote:
On the downside:
- You'll need to change lenses.
- It is A LOT heavier, bigger.
- It costs MUCH more money
- The FZ-18 28-530mm range (35mm equiv), well stabilised, is something hard to beat
There is no such zoom equivalent and the cost for 500mm+ at f 3.5 is enormous.
Have a look at the Sigma 50-500mm lens:
Dimensions Diameter 95mm X Length 218.5mm
Weight 1842g
SRP £899.99
Try this link: Sigma Imaging (UK) Ltd
while this is very true it really depends upon the decisions as to why the change is being made.
QuoteQuote:
On the upside:
- Youíll have MUCH, MUCH better image quality, especially under difficult circumstances. And thatís what it is all about isnít it?
- Youíll have a hobby.
- Youíll have something to spend money on for the coming years!
(Flash, tri/monopod, PP software, lots and lots of lenses, bags, etc etc etc)
don't scare him away with the promise of spending money from years to comethe advantage of digital photography and the way to stress it is the value saved in terms of processing.
QuoteQuote:
Iíd go for the K10D, glass lasts for ever, and replace the K10D by a new model in two/three years from now. Technology in camera bodies goes fast, in lenses not.

Have fun!

- Bert
This last point is very true, especially in today's world.
04-25-2008, 08:13 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by edumad Quote
I shoot loads of landscapes, so in the far future I wouldn't exclude a 12-24 or 10-20, something around there.
I am not sure why you'd choose such a wide angle for landscapes. While I have shot some at the wide end of my DA 16-45mm, that focal length tends to push all of the mid to far objects in the FOV further away from the viewer. Large formations (eg. mountains) lose their immediacy. This length works best with objects in the foreground that can loom large and lead into the image. I certainly would not use a 10mm for landscapes, but rather for close confines in urban environments, indoors or out.

If you enjoy sweeping vistas then panoramic stitching is the way to go, with something closer to 28mm perhaps. Even 50mm and longer lenses are used for great landscape photos.

QuoteOriginally posted by edumad Quote
I've considered getting a 50 mm for portraits, but since I'm not used to primes, and I only consider doing those at casual situations with friends, I dont think it would work. With a zoom, you can be at a party, and hardly moving pick, out people and their natural expressions.
While that is true, I find the difficult thing is to have enough light. Here a zoom is not your friend. A fast 50 is much better. Also, not having to think about zooming frees up another part of the brain so that you can react quicker to your surroundings and get the shot.

Much of the advice here has been towards zooms as a versatile solution, but I'm going to buck that trend. I find I never use my kit lens and rarely do much zooming with the 16-45mm. More and more I find I just put on a 100mm macro and go out hunting small details. Perhaps that is the sort of photographer I am. But there is a lot to be said for fielding a prime, not just in terms of image quality, but for what it makes you concentrate on as a photographer.

If I was to recommend you a lens now, I'd say get the DA 35mm f/2.8 limited. It is built great, takes good shots, is decent in low light and gets very close. It would be a good length for landscapes and also for group shots. If I didn't already own the 43mm I'd be all over it. (And likely will grab it in the future.)

As a second lens the FA 77mm f/1.8 limited is appealing for those low light interiors and portraits. I have one on its way. Then, when it is released, the 15mm limited would complete a rather amazing trio covering the focal lengths you desire.

There is nothing like a limited lens, but there are also cheaper choices. I am very pleased with my Vivitar 100mm f/3.5 macro, which is many times cheaper than the FA 77 and can do this :

04-25-2008, 09:27 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I am not sure why you'd choose such a wide angle for landscapes.
I haven't tried a wider angle than 28mm, but sometimes in outdoors I would want to go wider. Wider as far as 15mm? Not really sure, maybe your're right.

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
While that is true, I find the difficult thing is to have enough light. Here a zoom is not your friend. A fast 50 is much better. Also, not having to think about zooming frees up another part of the brain so that you can react quicker to your surroundings and get the shot.
You have a point there, that is why I consider the 50mm F1.7. At ~£50 (~$100) its probably a great deal.


On a side note, I must say I find surprising the optimism of the people here. Suggesting Limiteds and *'d lenses to a noobie going at his first DSLR.
I dont think I'd do justice to those lenses right now... But I'm taking care of that issue
Can't blame you guys... You are suggesting the best.
04-25-2008, 09:50 AM   #23
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MAy be you can go for a used K10D & some old manual lenses, they are superb in optical quality & best for learning.
You can get Fast50, good macro, fast tele, normal wide most of the range in price of K20D
Try the manual mode learn how to make use of Shalow DOF & bokeh (which is almost missing in P&S cameras).
You will start to love your work, that time if you want you can move forward & buy expensive glass.
Learn to grow step by step it will take you towards perfection.

04-25-2008, 10:55 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by edumad Quote
On a side note, I must say I find surprising the optimism of the people here. Suggesting Limiteds and *'d lenses to a noobie going at his first DSLR.
There are several schools of thought on this:
  1. Get glass you'll never need to replace and cannot blame for bad shots.
  2. Get something cheap until you know what you need.
  3. Get pretty well anything you can lay your hands on.

The downside of 1. is that you are investing more money to begin with. However, Pentax lenses tend to keep their value, so you can always sell them on.

The downside of 2. is that cheap lenses are not likely to get you into the world of fast lenses, and without this you are not going to get to play around with shallow DOF and a whole world of photography. The exception here is the fast 50, which is why it gets recommended so often.

The downside of 3. is... well, there is no downside to LBA!
04-25-2008, 03:45 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The downside of 3. is... well, there is no downside to LBA!
Try telling that to my wife!
04-25-2008, 04:16 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Try telling that to my wife!
Maybe I needed more sarcasm indicators!
04-26-2008, 08:31 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Maybe I needed more sarcasm indicators!
No you didn't, Without the wife there would be no down side to option 3.
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