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04-30-2014, 06:28 PM   #1
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New K3 or Better Lenses

Hi All,
I have been using my trusty K10D since new, in 2007, and still like it.
While it has its limitations, I can take lots of great shots with it, and there is Nothing wrong with it, never hiccuped, perfect working and cosmetic condition.

So, do I buy a K3 or get better glass?

I have a Sigma 70-200 F2.8 APO DG Macro HSM zoom, a DA 16-45 F4, and my wife has a KX with a kit DAL 18-55 F3.5-5.6 and also a DA 50 F1.8.

Casual shooting, landscapes, wildlife, dog sled races, drag racing, car shows, nature walks and people visiting/family get together shots.

Seems like if I buy the K3 I am spending a lot of money to get a few more clean ISO registers, some bells and whistles I may not need, higher shutter speeds, cleaner pics. But, I am not doing huge prints, so my 10 Mpixel is likely good enough. I like SHARP images.

A super sharp lens will make every pic I take better, and I can switch off a DA* 16-50 F2.8 with my wife so she can get the benefits as well. Or, buy a Sigma 15-70 F2.8, but not get the weather sealing.

None of my lenses are WR, and I would like atleast 1 WR to work with my K10D.

Thoughts? Birthday is coming up, and I suspect I am inline for a present.

Live in Northern Ontario, so, unfortunately unlikely to buy from B&H or Adorama, as the warranty issue is an issue.

Thanks! Decisions, decisions. LOL

05-01-2014, 01:27 AM   #2
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Most people who ask a question like this make it easy. Why can't you?

You already have good lenses, and you already have a K-x, so you can still get low light. And as you know, the K10D yields sharp looking images (I still have my K200D, with the same sensor). If you get a body at all, I think I'd get something between a K-30 and a K-5 IIs - no more. But since you value sharpness so much, I think the K-5 IIs (I have one) is the only choice here. And I suppose the K-3 is still an option - but like you, I suspect either one of these may be too much Investment for not enough Return.

I imagine you're happy with the Sigma 70-200/2.8 HSM (not the latest OS version, I presume, but still pretty good) as well as the DA50/1.8. And the DA16-45/4 is good too (I almost got one, but went with DA17-70 and then finally DA*16-50 instead).



When you say "super sharp," the only zoom that comes to mind is the DA*50-135.

So I have to ask you - which of your lenses do you consider "super sharp?" This would help in understanding your criteria.

Last edited by DSims; 05-01-2014 at 01:38 AM.
05-01-2014, 01:40 AM   #3
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I'd treat myself to a K-3 if I were you. As great as the K10D was, it's a dated body and you'll enjoy the improved interface, speed, and image quality that the K-3 has to offer. Plus, it gives you more resolution than any other Pentax DSLR

The lenses you have are good, though I'd also recommend adding a prime to your own kit.

Adam
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05-01-2014, 05:15 AM   #4
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Buy the 5kiis and use the leftover money to get lenses.

05-01-2014, 05:19 AM   #5
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As the sticky at the top of General Talk says, photography related threads do not belong in General Talk.
Moved to DSLR.
05-01-2014, 05:31 AM   #6
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If it is a weather resistance lens you're after , I'd recommend the da 18-135 wr , look for a K5IIs with a low shutter count from market and 18-135 wr and youre up around price of a new K3.
05-01-2014, 05:53 AM   #7
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Welcome!

Hello ROBEFFY, welcome to the Forum!
Like you, I've owned a K10D for many years, in fact I enjoy that camera so much I've started a club, here; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/242738-k10d-club.html
However, my great appreciation for this fine camera doesn't change the fact that it's old by any standard. Meaning it may do certain things well, but in other areas, not so well. For scenic, landscapes and portraits, timed exposures and low-ISO situations it's fine and the CCD sensor has a wonderful rendering, unlike any C-MOS sensor I've seen.
But, you will soon see (assuming you move to a K-5, II or IIs, or K-3) that the difference is greater than you would ever imagine. Available and useable ISO to 6400 that's better than the K10D at 1600 ISO, for example. Faster and better menu and button layout, faster fps, live view, video, incredible sharpness, virtually every upgrade and improvement made during the past 5-7 years.
The 16mp sensor in the K-5 (series, all the versions) is widely considered to be one of the finest C-MOS sensor ever produced by Sony, which means it's one of the best, period. This is far from saying it's merely 'more mp'. And the upgrades to A/F, WB, LCD size and resolution, clarity and I.Q., lens adjustments and much more, will take your photography to another level. A level unobtainable with any new lens upgrade.
It will take higher-quality photos with the lenses you now have and will be better with new lenses also, sensor rendering aside.
A low-mileage used K-5 or new K-5IIs is unquestionably the smartest,, least-expensive upgrade you can make.
It's time for a better camera body. The K-3 may be overkill, but a K-5 (any series) is just right.
JMO, Good luck!
Ron
05-01-2014, 06:06 AM   #8
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A newer body will blow your mind. The K-5 series is such a massive improvement in *almost* every respect from the K10D, and the K-3 is a substantial improvement on that.
The lenses you have are pretty good, although I find the Sigma 70-200/2.8 a bit twitchy on the K-3. It is fine on the K-5 IIs though....

05-01-2014, 06:45 AM   #9
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Original Poster
First off, Thank you to all for your replies. I am finding this a tough decision to make, and it seems some of you agree.

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Most people who ask a question like this make it easy. Why can't you?

You already have good lenses, and you already have a K-x, so you can still get low light. And as you know, the K10D yields sharp looking images (I still have my K200D, with the same sensor). If you get a body at all, I think I'd get something between a K-30 and a K-5 IIs - no more. But since you value sharpness so much, I think the K-5 IIs (I have one) is the only choice here. And I suppose the K-3 is still an option - but like you, I suspect either one of these may be too much Investment for not enough Return.

I imagine you're happy with the Sigma 70-200/2.8 HSM (not the latest OS version, I presume, but still pretty good) as well as the DA50/1.8. And the DA16-45/4 is good too (I almost got one, but went with DA17-70 and then finally DA*16-50 instead).



When you say "super sharp," the only zoom that comes to mind is the DA*50-135.

So I have to ask you - which of your lenses do you consider "super sharp?" This would help in understanding your criteria.
I find the Sigma is likely the sharpest lens I have.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I'd treat myself to a K-3 if I were you. As great as the K10D was, it's a dated body and you'll enjoy the improved interface, speed, and image quality that the K-3 has to offer. Plus, it gives you more resolution than any other Pentax DSLR

The lenses you have are good, though I'd also recommend adding a prime to your own kit.
It is interesting to note my wife recently took a pic of a Chickadee, on her left hand, holding the KX single handedly in her right, using the DAL 18-55 lens, which blew away our local photography club with how sharp the details were. That sure supports the newer camera sensors provide better image quality.

QuoteOriginally posted by pdo Quote
Buy the 5kiis and use the leftover money to get lenses.
My friend has a K5IIs, his first dslr, and with all his DA* lenses loves it. I like to buy once, as the K10D was, and not upgrade. Still using my Bryston stereo gear made in the late 80's. I doubt I will save $500 and buy a K5IIs, I won't notice the price saving in my bank account in 5 years time.

QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
As the sticky at the top of General Talk says, photography related threads do not belong in General Talk.
Moved to DSLR.
Thanks, I was not paying attention! I am sure that moving this to the right spot gathered more replies!

QuoteOriginally posted by disco_owner Quote
If it is a weather resistance lens you're after , I'd recommend the da 18-135 wr , look for a K5IIs with a low shutter count from market and 18-135 wr and youre up around price of a new K3.
That lens may end being my go to lens, because I am thinking of getting the Sigma 17-70 C, and want a WR for those days when we have less than great weather. We get enough snow, drizzle, rain that I want a WR lens

QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hello ROBEFFY, welcome to the Forum!
Like you, I've owned a K10D for many years, in fact I enjoy that camera so much I've started a club, here; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/242738-k10d-club.html
However, my great appreciation for this fine camera doesn't change the fact that it's old by any standard. Meaning it may do certain things well, but in other areas, not so well. For scenic, landscapes and portraits, timed exposures and low-ISO situations it's fine and the CCD sensor has a wonderful rendering, unlike any C-MOS sensor I've seen.
But, you will soon see (assuming you move to a K-5, II or IIs, or K-3) that the difference is greater than you would ever imagine. Available and useable ISO to 6400 that's better than the K10D at 1600 ISO, for example. Faster and better menu and button layout, faster fps, live view, video, incredible sharpness, virtually every upgrade and improvement made during the past 5-7 years.
The 16mp sensor in the K-5 (series, all the versions) is widely considered to be one of the finest C-MOS sensor ever produced by Sony, which means it's one of the best, period. This is far from saying it's merely 'more mp'. And the upgrades to A/F, WB, LCD size and resolution, clarity and I.Q., lens adjustments and much more, will take your photography to another level. A level unobtainable with any new lens upgrade.
It will take higher-quality photos with the lenses you now have and will be better with new lenses also, sensor rendering aside.
A low-mileage used K-5 or new K-5IIs is unquestionably the smartest,, least-expensive upgrade you can make.
It's time for a better camera body. The K-3 may be overkill, but a K-5 (any series) is just right.
JMO, Good luck!
Ron
I hadn't seriously considered that newer sensors, and the electronics that support them would produce better image quality. I am going to set the KX and K10D on tripods, shoot the same image with different lenses, and compare. I haven't done that yet, but I suspect I will see the difference.


QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
A newer body will blow your mind. The K-5 series is such a massive improvement in *almost* every respect from the K10D, and the K-3 is a substantial improvement on that.
The lenses you have are pretty good, although I find the Sigma 70-200/2.8 a bit twitchy on the K-3. It is fine on the K-5 IIs though....
Well, if the Sigma doesn't like the K3, I may have to get a DA* 300 or equivalent. I really appreciated the geese shots posted by Daacon yesterday,and my Sigma 200 just isn't long enough for that type of shot. I live beside a lake, and the wildlife here is awesome. Yesterday had ducks, geese, deer, squirrels, chickadees, ravens in the yard. Porcupine are normally seen, the beaver swims by almost every night at dusk, some bigger birds like osprey, cormorants are around, even some eagles of some type.

Again, thank you all. I have seen some light...
05-01-2014, 07:52 AM   #10
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One other consideration is the size of the K-5 or K-3. They are smaller than the K10D and at first I found The K-5 too small. The K10D fits my hands perfectly and I wished Pentax had kept its size. I've had the K-5 for a year and now use it more than the older bodies. I've also added a battery grip and that has helped with the size issue. The image quality certainly makes up for any difference in size. As a general rule I recommend good lenses over new digital bodies because good glass lasts forever and bodies come and go. In this case I recommend a used K-5 as they are a great value for your money now and may leave you some loose change for that DA* 300 f/4. Just my two cents.
05-01-2014, 08:15 AM   #11
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Wow - someone from Northern Ontario - quite rare, as I think the only places that carry Pentax are in Sudbury or Thunder Bay.
I'll be passing that way in a couple of weeks myself (lived north of Lake Superior for ~20 years) but originally from north of Lake Huron

Personally, based on where you are - lenses last for a REALLY long time (assuming you don't have a bad SDM), and camera bodies are being upgraded every few years or less.
K-5 series is at the end of its life, and I suspect that in the next year or 2 that it, along with K-50 will be upgraded anyways.
If you really have your mind on a specific lens - then get it, as new lenses don't come along often and prices don't change much. At some point you'll replace the body, but keep the lenses (assuming its the lens you want) forever.
05-01-2014, 08:47 AM   #12
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I hope you know about these guys....
items in Prodigital2000 store on eBay!

If you're mail ordering and you know what you want, they are the say to go.
New Pentax K 3 Digital SLR Camera Body Only Kit DSLR 15530 | eBay

or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Pentax-K-5-II-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body-18-135mm-W...item4865cad84f

or
New Pentax K 5 II Digital SLR Camera Body with 18 135mm WR Lens K 5II DSLR 027075220607 | eBay
Pentax SMC Da Star 300 mm F 4 0 SDM If Ed Lens 027075048331 | eBay

They're all things you might want sooner or later, it's just a matter of deciding the order.

Also keep in mind, these guys have accepted offers for $50 lower in the past. Although, if you get the k-3 you can skip the K-5. Living just south of Algonquin Park I can sympathize. I buy most of my stuff site unseen, based on reviews ant the experiences of forum users.

In your case, I'd be tempted to bump your 70-200 up to 280mm with this
New HD Pentax Da AF 1 4X AW Rear Converter K Mount Lens Teleconverter 37962 | eBay


And get one of these...
New Pentax K 5 IIS Digital SLR Camera Body Only K 5IIS DSLR No AA Filter 027075220737 | eBay

Especially if someone can confirm the TC works with your 70-200.
05-01-2014, 02:41 PM   #13
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For sharpness, DA*55 or a *300 (or F/FA 50 macro).
05-01-2014, 05:38 PM   #14
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Once again, I am blown away by the support and time all of you have given to my question! Thanks!

My wife took the decision out of my hands today, and we went to a local store in North Bay called Photo Metro. They are a local landmark, been in business since 1957 (I think). They sell Pentax, Canon and Nikon, and also have established some complimentary businesses under one roof, such as scrap booking, telescopes, a portrait studio.

Long story short, the K3 is on order along with a 18-135 WR lens. Price is good at $1449 plus taxes, CDN. Delivery is expect to be approximately 1 week.

Eager to receive and start playing!

QuoteOriginally posted by wtlwdwgn Quote
One other consideration is the size of the K-5 or K-3. They are smaller than the K10D and at first I found The K-5 too small. The K10D fits my hands perfectly and I wished Pentax had kept its size. I've had the K-5 for a year and now use it more than the older bodies. I've also added a battery grip and that has helped with the size issue. The image quality certainly makes up for any difference in size. As a general rule I recommend good lenses over new digital bodies because good glass lasts forever and bodies come and go. In this case I recommend a used K-5 as they are a great value for your money now and may leave you some loose change for that DA* 300 f/4. Just my two cents.
I managed to hand hold a K3 after driving to Henry's in Sudbury, it is different in size and location but similar I expect to be able to adapt. The battery grip is my fall back. I really find the K10D size is perfect fit for me though.

QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Wow - someone from Northern Ontario - quite rare, as I think the only places that carry Pentax are in Sudbury or Thunder Bay.
I'll be passing that way in a couple of weeks myself (lived north of Lake Superior for ~20 years) but originally from north of Lake Huron

Personally, based on where you are - lenses last for a REALLY long time (assuming you don't have a bad SDM), and camera bodies are being upgraded every few years or less.
K-5 series is at the end of its life, and I suspect that in the next year or 2 that it, along with K-50 will be upgraded anyways.
If you really have your mind on a specific lens - then get it, as new lenses don't come along often and prices don't change much. At some point you'll replace the body, but keep the lenses (assuming its the lens you want) forever.
Totally agree with you on quality lenses. My dad left me his EDIXAR telephoto zoom, 70-230 F4.5. I am able to use it in Manual mode with the adapter ring on my K10D. It works great, and is a testament to quality engineering and build. This lens dates back to approx 1970 when he bought it new.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I hope you know about these guys....
items in Prodigital2000 store on eBay!

If you're mail ordering and you know what you want, they are the say to go.
New Pentax K 3 Digital SLR Camera Body Only Kit DSLR 15530 | eBay

or
New Pentax K 5 II Digital SLR Camera Body with 18 135mm WR Lens K 5II DSLR 027075220607 | eBay

or
New Pentax K 5 II Digital SLR Camera Body with 18 135mm WR Lens K 5II DSLR 027075220607 | eBay
Pentax SMC Da Star 300 mm F 4 0 SDM If Ed Lens 027075048331 | eBay

They're all things you might want sooner or later, it's just a matter of deciding the order.

Also keep in mind, these guys have accepted offers for $50 lower in the past. Although, if you get the k-3 you can skip the K-5. Living just south of Algonquin Park I can sympathize. I buy most of my stuff site unseen, based on reviews ant the experiences of forum users.

In your case, I'd be tempted to bump your 70-200 up to 280mm with this
New HD Pentax Da AF 1 4X AW Rear Converter K Mount Lens Teleconverter 37962 | eBay


And get one of these...
New Pentax K 5 IIS Digital SLR Camera Body Only K 5IIS DSLR No AA Filter 027075220737 | eBay

Especially if someone can confirm the TC works with your 70-200.
Hi Normhead, have seen lots of your pics on the site, and also commented a few times. I am happy with the price from Photo Metro, they actually bettered the price from Prodigital200 by $200 on the same package, K3 and 18-135 WR, listed at $1646.95 vs my price of $1449.

However, I am always looking for competitive pricing, I did some purchasing in my career, always get 3 quotes minimum, throw away the lowest and highest....

I was disappointed to find the Sigma TC does not support autofocus on my K10D with the 70-200 APO HSM etc. However, now that I am older, wiser and more experienced, after being on this website especially, I realize the autofocus at 200mm on my telephoto is not necessary, I can, gasp, manual focus just like I did many years ago. So, I expect a 1.4 TC in my arsenal some day!

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
For sharpness, DA*55 or a *300 (or F/FA 50 macro).
I really like the pics on the site from the DA* 300 I saw the other day. Wow.


Again, my thanks to all of you, I believe that the missing piece of the puzzle that you filled in was not only do I get 24 Mpixel vs 10 Mpixel, I get a better image from superior sensor tech and improvements in the rest of the camera. So, as was said, even my old lenses will produce better pics.

If any of you are driving by Corbeil area, just outside North Bay, email to contact me and drop by?

Regards
05-01-2014, 05:59 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ROBEFFY Quote
My wife took the decision out of my hands today, and we went to a local store in North Bay called Photo Metro. They are a local landmark, been in business since 1957 (I think). They sell Pentax, Canon and Nikon, and also have established some complimentary businesses under one roof, such as scrap booking, telescopes, a portrait studio.

Long story short, the K3 is on order along with a 18-135 WR lens. Price is good at $1449 plus taxes, CDN. Delivery is expect to be approximately 1 week.
Sounds like a good choice. I got to barrow a K-3 one day - I think you'll be happy. Your current lenses are just good enough that you could have gone either way.
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