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07-08-2014, 09:16 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Recall that there is already a .35mm shim in place.
Not necessarily.

07-08-2014, 09:52 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
Not necessarily.
As you have said, I remember. I haven't looked again at my camera, and it isn't that I don't trust that that is what you saw, but for the time being, I'm going to have to trust someone who sells focusing screens for a living. I too have replaced 3 focusing screens before (on different bodies than the K-3), and I had previously assumed that the shim would simply come out with the screen if there was one, instead of having an additional locking mechanism for it. So, before, I didn't think that there were shims on my previous bodies, but now I am not so certain. It does seem very odd, however, for there to be a .35mm difference in the distance between your K-3 and mine. If indeed there is no shim, then there will be no way to correct a front focusing problem, right? Since the screen must get closer to the pentaprism, and there is nothing to take out, I assume there is no fix? Seems unlikely that Pentax would do this, because the tolerances would have to be too tight from camera to camera. It makes more sense to allow for some slop, and need at least some shim to obtain correct focus.
07-08-2014, 10:33 PM   #33
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Yes, if you need "negative" shims then what can you do? In that case you don't need any shims from Ricoh either. But if you do need shims, I'm saying you can simply build them up yourself with layers of thin strips of scotch tape (cut with X-acto knife) carefully applied to the edges of the screen where the shim would normally be. Layer as needed to get the proper thickness. (There are some people describing how they did just that on the S-screen thread.)
07-09-2014, 02:28 AM   #34
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Policies can be changed. If Ricoh gets enough feedback on this issue it is possible they may reconsider the policy. Of course Ricoh could always say that if the body is properly calibrated in the factory with shims than if you use OEM Pentax/Ricoh screens which should be within tolerance that no change in the shims should be needed. Third party products are not supported.

With a photo etching kit one could easily produce enough quality shims to satisfy the demands of everybody here and them some. Brass shim stock is easily obtained in metric sheet assortments. All you need is a laser printer, a photo etching kit and the shim stock.

Starship Modeler - Making Your Own Photo-etched Parts

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Last edited by Not a Number; 07-09-2014 at 02:33 AM.
07-09-2014, 02:38 AM   #35
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What are they doing? What do they know what we don't know yet?
07-09-2014, 03:39 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney:
... but seriously, scotch tape, it isn't hard. These shims are not vital even if your screen needs shimming.
QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Well, if, when the split prism lines up and the microprisms stop shimmering, the desired object isn't in focus, yes, they are indeed vital. I do not understand how you can use scotch tape for a front focusing problem, can you explain? Recall that there is already a .35mm shim in place. I'm really not averse to trying this if it works...
I have tried to use 'scotch tape' before, and don't think it's doable when you also need to find out the thickness of the shim to match your camera.
Focus screen are also sensitive to scratches/dust/finger print.

Too bad that Ricoh does not sell shims anymore. A S-type screen should be standard in all models.
07-09-2014, 06:07 AM   #37
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Hmm... when I transferred my cut-down Canon screen (EE-s, I think) from my K-5 to my K-3, I found that it wasn't quite dead-on, so I guess I'm one of the unlucky K-3 owners. I tried shimming with tape but had no luck and attributed that to not spending enough time and care to set it up properly, and have been planning to give it another go soon. Hopefully it can be made to work. There's nothing pleasant in trying to fine-tune focusing.
07-09-2014, 07:10 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
I have tried to use 'scotch tape' before, and don't think it's doable when you also need to find out the thickness of the shim to match your camera.
Focus screen are also sensitive to scratches/dust/finger print.
Not following as you would determine the thickness by testing as you were shimming -- slowly building up the thickness, the important thing not to make it too thick as taking off layers would be more problematic.

QuoteQuote:
Too bad that Ricoh does not sell shims anymore. A S-type screen should be standard in all models.
Of course if you buy an S-screen from focusingscreen.com they will give you shims. I wonder where those come from? (Are there Canon shims or other that could be cut?)

You know it just occurred to me that shims could probably be easily 3d printed, or are they too thin?

07-09-2014, 07:17 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
Focus screen are also sensitive to scratches/dust/finger print.
It is possible to put the scotch tape on the shim itself, without removing the focus screen, just a bit of time and patience...
07-09-2014, 07:20 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by altopiet Quote
It is possible to put the scotch tape on the shim itself, without removing the focus screen, just a bit of time and patience...
You mean on the frame?
07-09-2014, 07:32 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
You mean on the frame?
Yip, the shim is thin, but I did it, by putting the shim on a cardboard box and taping the shim to the box with the scotch tape, and trimming it using a surgical knife, bought at my pharmacy. You just

carefully lift it with your tweezers and using the smallest screwdriver, slide back into place. Just after you remove the shim, you put the cap on the mount to keep the dust out, giving you time to do

it without worrying about dust in the camera.

I tried cutting an old focusing screen once for my K-x, but learned the hard way how sensitive they are, promising to avoid working on one again, as far as possible...
07-09-2014, 10:15 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
There is no additional locking mechanism for a shim, but it doesn't necessarily come out with the screen. You can pull the screen out and the shim will still be sitting there.
Sorry, but all the data I have seen refutes that. In fact, ignoring the Katzeye description that mentions another clip mechanism holding the factory shim, here's the focusingscreen.com page specifically talking about front focusing on the K3/K5 and how to replace the factory shim, providing clear photos shown the additional clip holding the factory shim (even though the English on the page was probably written by translation software):

From --Pentax K3 K5 K7 K30 focusing screen front focusing revise guide-- :

"If pentax K3 K5 K7 camera manual focusing is front (The focus distance is nearer) Please check focusing screen matte face is post a top or not,you can take out k7/k5/k3 metals pad can revise ."

with photo P6, P7, and P8 showing the clip holding the factory shim in place.

I don't doubt that you have more experience than I do about this, but so far, both Katzeye and focusingscreen.com agree that there is indeed a factory shim, and it is held in place with an additional clip, and it needs to be replaced if there is a front focusing problem with the replacement screen.
07-09-2014, 10:29 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Sorry, but all the data I have seen refutes that. In fact, ignoring the Katzeye description that mentions another clip mechanism holding the factory shim, here's the focusingscreen.com page specifically talking about front focusing on the K3/K5 and how to replace the factory shim, providing clear photos shown the additional clip holding the factory shim (even though the English on the page was probably written by translation software):

From --Pentax K3 K5 K7 K30 focusing screen front focusing revise guide-- :

"If pentax K3 K5 K7 camera manual focusing is front (The focus distance is nearer) Please check focusing screen matte face is post a top or not,you can take out k7/k5/k3 metals pad can revise ."

with photo P6, P7, and P8 showing the clip holding the factory shim in place.

I don't doubt that you have more experience than I do about this, but so far, both Katzeye and focusingscreen.com agree that there is indeed a factory shim, and it is held in place with an additional clip, and it needs to be replaced if there is a front focusing problem with the replacement screen.
I meant that there is not an additional spring clip/frame holding the shim like there is holding the screen. That's what I thought you meant.
07-09-2014, 10:49 AM   #44
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There is a frame with a little locking clip on the frame holding both the screen and any shims (you can easily see it by removing the lens). Unclip this and it will tilt forward and the both the screen and the shims will just be loose in the frame. You use tweezers to remove them and to place them stacking them loose on top of each other as needed, and then carefully tilt the frame back up and lock it. There is nothing else in there holding them in. (If you unclip the frame with the body pointed too far down, they will just fall on the floor.)
07-09-2014, 10:58 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
There is a frame with a little locking clip on the frame holding both the screen and any shims (you can easily see it by removing the lens).
Not for the K3/K5, see above for both the Katzeye explanation and the focusingscreen.com site, showing one clip holding the focusing screen, and a *second* clip holding the shim. This is perhaps why folks don't think there is a factory shim, when in fact, there is.
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