Final thoughts before upgrading my K10D

applejax · 07-19-2014, 10:00 AM

I’m finally ready to do this. After reviewing the K5 and K3 for countless hours on this forum, I’m pretty well set on upgrading my K10D to a K3, and here’s why (i.e., self-justification):

Ergonomics: this is a big thing to me as it’s what sold me on the K10D. I wasn’t even seriously shopping but I held it and had no choice but to buy one.

Autofocus: I can’t count how many shots of the kids I’ve missed due to the K10’s autofocus. I also enjoy wildlife shooting and would like the flexibility to do some other faster-action opportunities.

Noise/low light/ISO: While there is some dispute of low light performance and ISO noise, the consensus is that the K3 is at least as good as the K5.

Megapixels: Smaller pixels mean less photons per pixel, so the K5 is tempting here but the cropping ability will be an advantage for me.

I don’t buy cameras often, I’m not one of these “every-other” cycle upgraders (even if I’d like to be…). Might as well get the top of the line with newest technologies. This is also what influenced me to choose a new camera over a lens or two.

I reviewed many photos from both cameras on this forum. Perhaps psychosomatic, but I enjoyed looking at the K3 shots more. Not scientific at all, and not taking any other variables into account, but that’s the result.

B&H has that good deal. Would I rather get just the camera for under $1,000? Probably. I’ll try the grip, though, and the remote control sounds fun. I’ll replace my older 540 with the package one, too, and perhaps sell it for cheap. The forum still gets their contribution if I use PayPal, right?

And the tipping point for justification:

I think I’m going to start a photography business on the side. I enjoy it, so why not try to make some side cash? If I can pull a few extra bucks in, then it'll make up for the cost difference from the K5. Still have a few holes in my business plan to fill, though.

I’m a bit concerned about my lenses. There’s all this talk of the sensor being better than many lenses; hoping I’ll be okay here.

Thanks everyone for the help in this decision. Thanks for your pictures, your experience, and your creativity!

--david

**savoche** · 07-19-2014, 10:22 AM - **1 Like**

Sounds like all good reasons to me. All of them very true!

As for the sensor being better than the lenses... Well, yes, it's a lot easier to see the difference between ok lenses and excellent lenses at 100%, but no lenses are suddenly getting worse just because you mount them on a K-3. It's just that some of them don't fully utilise the potential of the camera. So, no reason for concern. Not really. But you will probably end up wanting to replace some lenses anyway

A grip? Personal preferences. Some like it a lot, I don't really see it helping me the way I shoot.

Good luck!

RonHendriks1966 · 07-19-2014, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by applejax

And the tipping point for justification:

I think I’m going to start a photography business on the side. I enjoy it, so why not try to make some side cash? If I can pull a few extra bucks in, then it'll make up for the cost difference from the K5. Still have a few holes in my business plan to fill, though.

--david

Oh boy, you and one million others are starting a photography bussiness these days.

Basicly they are all good...... K-30/K-50/K-5/K-5 II/K-5 IIs/K-3. There are differences, but the thing is, in what way will you notice it?

I looked at the deal, well that is a good deal I think. The flash is the old version, stil very good, but not sealed. I don't use the grip on my camera.

Imageman · 07-19-2014, 10:58 AM - **1 Like**

People who pontificate about the sensor being better than the lens somehow being a bad thing don't know the first thing about photography.

You use a lens that delivers the image you want and record that image on a medium that is capable of recording it in the way that you are happy with.

Photography is the recording of an image that a lens creates. any camera can do this. use whatever sensor you like as long as it meets or exceeds your requirements.

If you record a stunning image on a 20 megapixel camera, and then record the same image on a 50 megapixel camera with the same lens is the second image now rubbish because the sensors better. Of course it isn't its still stunning.

In film days the medium often out performed the lens and nobody was ever heard to complain about it. "Oh no ive changed to TriX and I must buy a 10,000 dollar superlens now because the film is suddenly better than the lens."

This ridiculous idea is the recent invention of digital photographers with little real experience of real world imagemaking.

Keep your existing lenses they will be fine.

The lens is whats important, the image is created by it.

**lmd91343** · 07-19-2014, 01:14 PM

David,

Enjoy the new camera. The technological changes in each upgrade have made photography easier for me. I moved from the K10 to the K20, then to the K5. Each step brought positive changes to the process and the result. You have analyzed your needs and have chosen the appropriate platform (K10 vs K5 vs K3).

There is one point that you have skipped over. Unfortunately, I cannot address it, because I cannot "see" it. Your trusty K10 has a CCD sensor. The K5 and K3 both have CMOS. I do not see differing results between platforms that can be assigned to this, by comparing my K5/K20 vs K10. Others on this and other sites are very vocal about the differences. Be aware as you upgrade. You might or might not be able to see the differences in the CCD lower noise and it's better "quality" ( whatever that is).

**dms** · 07-19-2014, 02:01 PM

As the feel of the K10d was why you purchased it--the grip on the K-5 is rather narrow/etc. Have you held either the K-5 or K-3?
I also like the K10d/K20d ergonomics and I was rather surprised how different the K-5 was. Don't know about the K-3.

**grhazelton** · 07-19-2014, 02:15 PM

I upgraded to the K 5 from the K 10, both with grip. The difference in high ISO performance is amazing, of course. Auto-focus performance is greatly improved. Too bad they don't use the same grip or batteries. I have grips on both and wouldn't be without one. I think you will be pleased with the K 5. Try not to sneer at the Canikon fan boys!

applejax · 07-19-2014, 06:13 PM

Thanks for the thoughts. To talk to some of the comments:

Good points ease my mind on the whole "sensor better than lens" issue.

I didn't like the grip for the K10, but it's part of the deal, so if I don't like it then I'll sell it.

If the market doesn't support my attempt at getting a few dollars on the side, then oh well; it's a low risk venture. I do know how to run a business, though, so I'll give it a shot.

CCD vs CMOS: it's not worth it to sell the K10, I'll let my daughter see if she has an interest. I've had great shots from that camera, and I recognize the areas where it is strong and may still use it on occasion.

I hope this jump makes photography easier for me - I'm getting increasingly frustrated at the K10's not-strong points.

The K3 seems to be generally accepted as more "grippy" and ergonomic than the K5.

Since I don't upgrade bodies frequently, then hopefully this will last me long enough to divert some money into lenses!

I appreciate the extended comments and support!

Rnovo · 07-19-2014, 07:28 PM

And keep your K10D as a spare if you are trying to make a few bucks on the side - it's not worth too much anyway theses days but it is still a great camera...?

GridUser · 12-14-2014, 01:46 PM

I had a few questions about possibly upgrading from a K10D to a K3. I hope it's OK to post them here. If not, let me know and I'll move the post.

Would I still be able to use the Promaster AF 18-200 EDO zoom lens I use on the K10D?
Would I still be able to use the original K10D lens and just buy a K3 body?
Finally, would I be able to use the Vivitar 383 flash I just got (yesterday) for the K10D, at least when using it for stills?

I have a K10D and a separate Sony digital video camera, and am thinking I can sell both and still be ahead of the game with the K3. I find I almost take more stills than video with my Sony video cam and am pretty much OK with how they turn out (I think they both take 10MP stills and the video cam can pull 6MP frames off to make stills). I just think I'd be happier with a "still-camera-you-can-use-for-video", rather than a "video-camera-you-can-use-as-a-still-camera". Thanks.

**TER-OR** · 12-15-2014, 02:00 PM

I upgraded from K10 to K5 when the K5 went through its second price drop. I'd go K3 now.
Keep the K10, perhaps swap the focus screen for a good split-focus for manual use. Then you'll have an amazing tripod camera with the old manual focus lenses. In full light or long exposures that CCD is great.

I've never used the grip on my camera, and I like the compact size without the grip.

07-19-2014, 10:00 AM	#1
applejax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 271	Final thoughts before upgrading my K10D I’m finally ready to do this. After reviewing the K5 and K3 for countless hours on this forum, I’m pretty well set on upgrading my K10D to a K3, and here’s why (i.e., self-justification): Ergonomics: this is a big thing to me as it’s what sold me on the K10D. I wasn’t even seriously shopping but I held it and had no choice but to buy one. Autofocus: I can’t count how many shots of the kids I’ve missed due to the K10’s autofocus. I also enjoy wildlife shooting and would like the flexibility to do some other faster-action opportunities. Noise/low light/ISO: While there is some dispute of low light performance and ISO noise, the consensus is that the K3 is at least as good as the K5. Megapixels: Smaller pixels mean less photons per pixel, so the K5 is tempting here but the cropping ability will be an advantage for me. I don’t buy cameras often, I’m not one of these “every-other” cycle upgraders (even if I’d like to be…). Might as well get the top of the line with newest technologies. This is also what influenced me to choose a new camera over a lens or two. I reviewed many photos from both cameras on this forum. Perhaps psychosomatic, but I enjoyed looking at the K3 shots more. Not scientific at all, and not taking any other variables into account, but that’s the result. B&H has that good deal. Would I rather get just the camera for under $1,000? Probably. I’ll try the grip, though, and the remote control sounds fun. I’ll replace my older 540 with the package one, too, and perhaps sell it for cheap. The forum still gets their contribution if I use PayPal, right? And the tipping point for justification: I think I’m going to start a photography business on the side. I enjoy it, so why not try to make some side cash? If I can pull a few extra bucks in, then it'll make up for the cost difference from the K5. Still have a few holes in my business plan to fill, though. I’m a bit concerned about my lenses. There’s all this talk of the sensor being better than many lenses; hoping I’ll be okay here. Thanks everyone for the help in this decision. Thanks for your pictures, your experience, and your creativity! --david

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07-19-2014, 10:22 AM - 1 Like	#2
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Sounds like all good reasons to me. All of them very true! As for the sensor being better than the lenses... Well, yes, it's a lot easier to see the difference between ok lenses and excellent lenses at 100%, but no lenses are suddenly getting worse just because you mount them on a K-3. It's just that some of them don't fully utilise the potential of the camera. So, no reason for concern. Not really. But you will probably end up wanting to replace some lenses anyway A grip? Personal preferences. Some like it a lot, I don't really see it helping me the way I shoot. Good luck!

07-19-2014, 10:52 AM	#3
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by applejax And the tipping point for justification: I think I’m going to start a photography business on the side. I enjoy it, so why not try to make some side cash? If I can pull a few extra bucks in, then it'll make up for the cost difference from the K5. Still have a few holes in my business plan to fill, though. --david Oh boy, you and one million others are starting a photography bussiness these days. Basicly they are all good...... K-30/K-50/K-5/K-5 II/K-5 IIs/K-3. There are differences, but the thing is, in what way will you notice it? I looked at the deal, well that is a good deal I think. The flash is the old version, stil very good, but not sealed. I don't use the grip on my camera.

07-19-2014, 10:58 AM - 1 Like	#4
Imageman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 461	People who pontificate about the sensor being better than the lens somehow being a bad thing don't know the first thing about photography. You use a lens that delivers the image you want and record that image on a medium that is capable of recording it in the way that you are happy with. Photography is the recording of an image that a lens creates. any camera can do this. use whatever sensor you like as long as it meets or exceeds your requirements. If you record a stunning image on a 20 megapixel camera, and then record the same image on a 50 megapixel camera with the same lens is the second image now rubbish because the sensors better. Of course it isn't its still stunning. In film days the medium often out performed the lens and nobody was ever heard to complain about it. "Oh no ive changed to TriX and I must buy a 10,000 dollar superlens now because the film is suddenly better than the lens." This ridiculous idea is the recent invention of digital photographers with little real experience of real world imagemaking. Keep your existing lenses they will be fine. The lens is whats important, the image is created by it.

07-19-2014, 01:14 PM	#5
lmd91343 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,027	David, Enjoy the new camera. The technological changes in each upgrade have made photography easier for me. I moved from the K10 to the K20, then to the K5. Each step brought positive changes to the process and the result. You have analyzed your needs and have chosen the appropriate platform (K10 vs K5 vs K3). There is one point that you have skipped over. Unfortunately, I cannot address it, because I cannot "see" it. Your trusty K10 has a CCD sensor. The K5 and K3 both have CMOS. I do not see differing results between platforms that can be assigned to this, by comparing my K5/K20 vs K10. Others on this and other sites are very vocal about the differences. Be aware as you upgrade. You might or might not be able to see the differences in the CCD lower noise and it's better "quality" ( whatever that is).

07-19-2014, 02:01 PM	#6
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	As the feel of the K10d was why you purchased it--the grip on the K-5 is rather narrow/etc. Have you held either the K-5 or K-3? I also like the K10d/K20d ergonomics and I was rather surprised how different the K-5 was. Don't know about the K-3.

07-19-2014, 02:15 PM	#7
grhazelton Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jonesboro, GA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	I upgraded to the K 5 from the K 10, both with grip. The difference in high ISO performance is amazing, of course. Auto-focus performance is greatly improved. Too bad they don't use the same grip or batteries. I have grips on both and wouldn't be without one. I think you will be pleased with the K 5. Try not to sneer at the Canikon fan boys!

07-19-2014, 06:13 PM	#8
applejax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 271 Original Poster	Thanks for the thoughts. To talk to some of the comments: Good points ease my mind on the whole "sensor better than lens" issue. I didn't like the grip for the K10, but it's part of the deal, so if I don't like it then I'll sell it. If the market doesn't support my attempt at getting a few dollars on the side, then oh well; it's a low risk venture. I do know how to run a business, though, so I'll give it a shot. CCD vs CMOS: it's not worth it to sell the K10, I'll let my daughter see if she has an interest. I've had great shots from that camera, and I recognize the areas where it is strong and may still use it on occasion. I hope this jump makes photography easier for me - I'm getting increasingly frustrated at the K10's not-strong points. The K3 seems to be generally accepted as more "grippy" and ergonomic than the K5. Since I don't upgrade bodies frequently, then hopefully this will last me long enough to divert some money into lenses! I appreciate the extended comments and support!

07-19-2014, 07:28 PM	#9
Rnovo Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 415	And keep your K10D as a spare if you are trying to make a few bucks on the side - it's not worth too much anyway theses days but it is still a great camera...?

12-14-2014, 01:46 PM	#10
GridUser Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bettendorf, IA Posts: 30	I had a few questions about possibly upgrading from a K10D to a K3. I hope it's OK to post them here. If not, let me know and I'll move the post. Would I still be able to use the Promaster AF 18-200 EDO zoom lens I use on the K10D? Would I still be able to use the original K10D lens and just buy a K3 body? Finally, would I be able to use the Vivitar 383 flash I just got (yesterday) for the K10D, at least when using it for stills? I have a K10D and a separate Sony digital video camera, and am thinking I can sell both and still be ahead of the game with the K3. I find I almost take more stills than video with my Sony video cam and am pretty much OK with how they turn out (I think they both take 10MP stills and the video cam can pull 6MP frames off to make stills). I just think I'd be happier with a "still-camera-you-can-use-for-video", rather than a "video-camera-you-can-use-as-a-still-camera". Thanks.

12-15-2014, 02:00 PM	#11
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I upgraded from K10 to K5 when the K5 went through its second price drop. I'd go K3 now. Keep the K10, perhaps swap the focus screen for a good split-focus for manual use. Then you'll have an amazing tripod camera with the old manual focus lenses. In full light or long exposures that CCD is great. I've never used the grip on my camera, and I like the compact size without the grip.