And this is (partly) why Pentax doesn't get much love

devouges · 08-05-2014, 03:47 AM

I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands

Kayaker-J · 08-05-2014, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by devouges

I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands

Yes, indeed. I was out of photography for a long time after having been a sort of all-purpose Nikon (corporate) pro and photographic equipment specifier. I'd wander into the 'camera department' at Bust Buy every once in a great while, feel appalled at what seemed to be passing for a quality-made digital SLR and lenses; and then move on to take a glance at the TVs... no spark at all having been kindled in my brain.

So about 13 years, give or take, into the DSLR era... having read up, perused, contemplated, and further studied; and having previously grabbed an Olympus Pen and some lenses off eBay... I made a decision (and a certain commitment) and ordered my K3 this year. The sum of my diligent, but enjoyable research had not really prepared me for the sensation of first holding the Pentax in my hands, having seen and felt what I had within recent memory. "Now that's a real camera!", I thought at once. It's as simple as that.

---------- Post added 08-05-14 at 07:35 AM ----------

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

An elderly customer of mine brought her laptop in to me for an upgrade to Windows 8.1 because a course she was doing required it.
What was the course? "An introduction to the Internet"..

Humans..

Humans... also referred to in some circles as 'evolution's greatest mistake.' Stay tuned...

**Digitalis** · 08-05-2014, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by devouges

I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands

You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood.

Kayaker-J · 08-05-2014, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood.

...So I'm curious, given all your experience, Digitalis... Is it just folks below a certain age who couldn't picture this; or have older photographers, too, simply "forgotten"?

normhead · 08-05-2014, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood.

I was in a local outfitters, getting a small waterproof hard case for my 21 and 40XS. Gerry who shoots Canon FF and sells his images right there in the store, ask to see the lenses. I handed him both lens from one hand, I think I saw the same look, when they came apart and it was two lenses not one.

Kayaker-J · 08-05-2014, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I was in a local outfitters, getting a small waterproof hard case for my 21 and 40XS. Gerry who shoots Canon FF and sells his images right there in the store, ask to see the lenses. I handed him both lens from one hand, I think I saw the same look, when they came apart and it was two lenses not one.

Just curious, normhead (and BTW, I saw the picture of you in full regalia!), did you ever test the '40' XS against the DA Limited version? I ask because, XS already in hand, I very recently acquired a copy of the Limited after looking closely at photos in the PF In-depth Test (tainted by a sample problem as it may have been) and thinking about the difference in aberrations noted at ePhotozine/photodo and DxO. The latter rated the XS as one notch sharper, you may have noticed, just compounding the on-paper comparison issues. Adam has pretty much summed up any differences as a "wash", of course. Willing to be perfectionist to the extent of the present cost differential in the secondary market, I decided I just had to "know" (and I am kind of laid up presently)... To be honest, there's an aspect or two about the XS form factor I actually think I prefer, given its potential for some creative modification I can envision. Of course, Limiteds have a certain seduction quality in their own right, especially now that I have others.

But being a form follows function, performance first sort of guy, I am very interested in your (or present others') perspective, particularly regarding the IQ question. Any helpful thoughts?

normhead · 08-05-2014, 05:34 AM

Sorry Kayaker-J, for me, it's all about what I can fit in rather smallish waterproof cases when I go out. So I don't have a DA limited. The DA 21 and 40 XS go into the spot in a waste pack that is designed for a water bottle. That's portability. All my gear (tents, food, clothes etc.) goes in my Prijon Yukon Expedition...

Not me but I have the same boat.

thechumpen · 08-05-2014, 05:43 AM

Advise your sister to get Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson, will probably teach her far more than the chap running the course by the sounds of it.

Kayaker-J · 08-05-2014, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Sorry Kayaker-J, for me, it's all about what I can fit in rather smallish waterproof cases when I go out. So I don't have a DA limited. The DA 21 and 40 XS go into the spot in a waste pack that is designed for a water bottle. That's portability. All my gear (tents, food, clothes etc.) goes in my Prijon Yukon Expedition...

Not me but I have the same boat.

Cool. I never paddled that particular class of boat, but I respect Prijon for really understanding boats as opposed to merely exploiting marketing creativity. So I'd think your boat would be very well conceived and responsive (where hybrid/multi-purpose designs often are not). Although sea kayaking is really more my style (Matt Broze's Mariner XL, back in the day), I did take a series of lessons in whitewater technique from a competition champ paddler/instructor over in Rhode Island, in a tidal bore sort of spot; and I used the Prijon T-Slalom then. I got along quite well with it. A serious boat. A little 'old school' now, perhaps: I'm not really sure anymore.

Say, do you use those Op-Tech double end caps? -- Fred

Kenntak · 08-05-2014, 06:05 AM

You should talk to the teacher and provide some education about the Pentax camera. Maybe it would prevent this from happening again.

normhead · 08-05-2014, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Kayaker-J

Cool. I never paddled that particular class of boat, but I respect Prijon for really understanding boats as opposed to merely exploiting marketing creativity. So I'd think your boat would be very well conceived and responsive (where hybrid/multi-purpose designs often are not). Although sea kayaking is really more my style (Matt Broze's Mariner XL, back in the day), I did take a series of lessons in whitewater technique from a competition champ paddler/instructor over in Rhode Island, in a tidal bore sort of spot; and I used the Prijon T-Slalom then. I got along quite well with it. A serious boat. A little 'old school' now, perhaps: I'm not really sure anymore.

Say, do you use those Op-Tech double end caps? -- Fred

No but they look really cool.

This boat is the cross between a touring kayak and a white water boat. It's 13feet long. It has the bulkhead strength to keep you from getting pinned in the boat if you get pinned in a rapid, a flat bottom that will help you surf, and enough storage space for a week long trip, but no where near as sleek and fast s a sea kayak. I often take it when I'm guiding solo on a trip that has rivers, and easy portages.

**Digitalis** · 08-05-2014, 06:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kayaker-J

I'm curious, given all your experience, Digitalis... Is it just folks below a certain age who couldn't picture this; or have older photographers, too, simply "forgotten"?

No, older photographers haven't forgotten - The studio director at work was curious about the lenses I was using on my Pentax K5IIs. He picked my FA77 up (he has a preference for short telephotos) not only was he curious about the odd focal length, he asked me when it was made - his expression was priceless when I mentioned it was released by pentax 1999. As he turned to focus ring he was even more surprised when I mentioned it is a full AF lens.

Kayaker-J · 08-05-2014, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by normhead

No but they look really cool.

This boat is the cross between a touring kayak and a white water boat. It's 13feet long. It has the bulkhead strength to keep you from getting pinned in the boat if you get pinned in a rapid, a flat bottom that will help you surf, and enough storage space for a week long trip, but no where near as sleek and fast s a sea kayak. I often take it when I'm guiding solo on a trip that has rivers, and easy portages.

Sounds great. Looks very purposeful. What does that one weigh? Very good balance out of the water, I'd then assume... The T-slalom I mentioned had a custom, reinforced bulkhead installed -- that guy was prepared for the big water.

MadMathMind · 08-05-2014, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

So... Nobody wonders about the teachers motives? I've read the entire thread two times and nowhere I could find any reasons for the denial. If anything, the differences in camera systems is important to beginning photographers. So I would guess the teacher would have been happy to answer that, if he was asked the question. Wasn't the question even asked... or? Maybe using eachothers lenses is part of some of the lessons? It could easily be that simple.

If that were so, he would have said words to that effect and not bothered to examine the camera---unless he wanted to check whether Pentax features a Canon compatible mount (Heaven help the class if he did...). The reason was "This camera doesn't have all the correct features." That's just ignorance.

Besides, if the point were lens sharing, no Nikon would be allowed. What would he do if 2 only Nikon users showed up (and the rest Canon)? Besides, for this class, I'd expect nothing but kit lenses. Not very interesting to trade those around.

Brooke Meyer · 08-05-2014, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Well, I do have close relatives who live in Texas, I have travelled in the USA and Canada, several times, and I do read US news sites, so I get the hostility in some quarters there to Governments doing anything, but note that I actually said "in some parts". So, maybe not such strange ideas, after all, even if North Carolina may not be one of those parts. My point was also about the relative independence of government-run Adult Education classes, which are fee-paying programs and which are under pressure here to be scaled back and even abandoned. It was not about (free) general or (subsidised fee-paying) vocational education programs that are run by the State.

So, local sensitivities apart, it's my view that sponsored programs are always potentially conflicted by the interests of the sponsor, and best either avoided or treated with a degree of suspicion until they can demonstrate otherwise.

I certainly agree that vendor sponsored programs are always potentially conflicted. And yep, we have noisy folks hostile to Government anything who could start an argument in an empty house.

Around here, Adult Ed courses offered by Community Colleges and Town Parks and Rec Dept's are typically low cost, non credit and I've yet to see one vendor sponsored. I've recently moved from a Town of about 150,000 to one of about 17,000. While the Parks & Rec Dept offered sports, fitness and a few art courses, there were no photography courses and I proposed some. I know the folks who teach the Community College courses and the Park & Rec Courses and neither is vendor sponsored or associated with a camera store.

08-05-2014, 04:22 AM	#62
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by devouges I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands Yes, indeed. I was out of photography for a long time after having been a sort of all-purpose Nikon (corporate) pro and photographic equipment specifier. I'd wander into the 'camera department' at Bust Buy every once in a great while, feel appalled at what seemed to be passing for a quality-made digital SLR and lenses; and then move on to take a glance at the TVs... no spark at all having been kindled in my brain. So about 13 years, give or take, into the DSLR era... having read up, perused, contemplated, and further studied; and having previously grabbed an Olympus Pen and some lenses off eBay... I made a decision (and a certain commitment) and ordered my K3 this year. The sum of my diligent, but enjoyable research had not really prepared me for the sensation of first holding the Pentax in my hands, having seen and felt what I had within recent memory. "Now that's a real camera!", I thought at once. It's as simple as that. ---------- Post added 08-05-14 at 07:35 AM ---------- Originally posted by Steve.Ledger An elderly customer of mine brought her laptop in to me for an upgrade to Windows 8.1 because a course she was doing required it. What was the course? "An introduction to the Internet".. Humans.. Humans... also referred to in some circles as 'evolution's greatest mistake.' Stay tuned... Last edited by Kayaker-J; 08-05-2014 at 04:37 AM.

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08-05-2014, 03:47 AM	#61
devouges Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 324	I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands

08-05-2014, 04:46 AM	#63
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by devouges I love it when local canikon photographers are jealous of my K5iis from the moment they hold it in their hands You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood.

08-05-2014, 05:01 AM	#64
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by Digitalis You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood. ...So I'm curious, given all your experience, Digitalis... Is it just folks below a certain age who couldn't picture this; or have older photographers, too, simply "forgotten"?

08-05-2014, 05:03 AM	#65
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Digitalis You should have been there when one of my long time canon photographer colleagues held the FA31mm f/1.8 Limited, and when I showed them the FA77 f/1.8 Limited and its built in lens hood. I was in a local outfitters, getting a small waterproof hard case for my 21 and 40XS. Gerry who shoots Canon FF and sells his images right there in the store, ask to see the lenses. I handed him both lens from one hand, I think I saw the same look, when they came apart and it was two lenses not one.

08-05-2014, 05:29 AM	#66
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by normhead I was in a local outfitters, getting a small waterproof hard case for my 21 and 40XS. Gerry who shoots Canon FF and sells his images right there in the store, ask to see the lenses. I handed him both lens from one hand, I think I saw the same look, when they came apart and it was two lenses not one. Just curious, normhead (and BTW, I saw the picture of you in full regalia!), did you ever test the '40' XS against the DA Limited version? I ask because, XS already in hand, I very recently acquired a copy of the Limited after looking closely at photos in the PF In-depth Test (tainted by a sample problem as it may have been) and thinking about the difference in aberrations noted at ePhotozine/photodo and DxO. The latter rated the XS as one notch sharper, you may have noticed, just compounding the on-paper comparison issues. Adam has pretty much summed up any differences as a "wash", of course. Willing to be perfectionist to the extent of the present cost differential in the secondary market, I decided I just had to "know" (and I am kind of laid up presently)... To be honest, there's an aspect or two about the XS form factor I actually think I prefer, given its potential for some creative modification I can envision. Of course, Limiteds have a certain seduction quality in their own right, especially now that I have others. But being a form follows function, performance first sort of guy, I am very interested in your (or present others') perspective, particularly regarding the IQ question. Any helpful thoughts?

08-05-2014, 05:34 AM	#67
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Sorry Kayaker-J, for me, it's all about what I can fit in rather smallish waterproof cases when I go out. So I don't have a DA limited. The DA 21 and 40 XS go into the spot in a waste pack that is designed for a water bottle. That's portability. All my gear (tents, food, clothes etc.) goes in my Prijon Yukon Expedition... Not me but I have the same boat.

08-05-2014, 05:43 AM	#68
thechumpen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Middle of England Photos: Albums Posts: 296	Advise your sister to get Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson, will probably teach her far more than the chap running the course by the sounds of it.

08-05-2014, 05:57 AM	#69
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by normhead Sorry Kayaker-J, for me, it's all about what I can fit in rather smallish waterproof cases when I go out. So I don't have a DA limited. The DA 21 and 40 XS go into the spot in a waste pack that is designed for a water bottle. That's portability. All my gear (tents, food, clothes etc.) goes in my Prijon Yukon Expedition... Not me but I have the same boat. Cool. I never paddled that particular class of boat, but I respect Prijon for really understanding boats as opposed to merely exploiting marketing creativity. So I'd think your boat would be very well conceived and responsive (where hybrid/multi-purpose designs often are not). Although sea kayaking is really more my style (Matt Broze's Mariner XL, back in the day), I did take a series of lessons in whitewater technique from a competition champ paddler/instructor over in Rhode Island, in a tidal bore sort of spot; and I used the Prijon T-Slalom then. I got along quite well with it. A serious boat. A little 'old school' now, perhaps: I'm not really sure anymore. Say, do you use those Op-Tech double end caps? -- Fred

08-05-2014, 06:05 AM	#70
Kenntak Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 198	You should talk to the teacher and provide some education about the Pentax camera. Maybe it would prevent this from happening again.

08-05-2014, 06:08 AM	#71
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kayaker-J Cool. I never paddled that particular class of boat, but I respect Prijon for really understanding boats as opposed to merely exploiting marketing creativity. So I'd think your boat would be very well conceived and responsive (where hybrid/multi-purpose designs often are not). Although sea kayaking is really more my style (Matt Broze's Mariner XL, back in the day), I did take a series of lessons in whitewater technique from a competition champ paddler/instructor over in Rhode Island, in a tidal bore sort of spot; and I used the Prijon T-Slalom then. I got along quite well with it. A serious boat. A little 'old school' now, perhaps: I'm not really sure anymore. Say, do you use those Op-Tech double end caps? -- Fred No but they look really cool. This boat is the cross between a touring kayak and a white water boat. It's 13feet long. It has the bulkhead strength to keep you from getting pinned in the boat if you get pinned in a rapid, a flat bottom that will help you surf, and enough storage space for a week long trip, but no where near as sleek and fast s a sea kayak. I often take it when I'm guiding solo on a trip that has rivers, and easy portages.

08-05-2014, 06:09 AM - 1 Like	#72
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Kayaker-J I'm curious, given all your experience, Digitalis... Is it just folks below a certain age who couldn't picture this; or have older photographers, too, simply "forgotten"? No, older photographers haven't forgotten - The studio director at work was curious about the lenses I was using on my Pentax K5IIs. He picked my FA77 up (he has a preference for short telephotos) not only was he curious about the odd focal length, he asked me when it was made - his expression was priceless when I mentioned it was released by pentax 1999. As he turned to focus ring he was even more surprised when I mentioned it is a full AF lens.

08-05-2014, 06:41 AM	#73
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by normhead No but they look really cool. This boat is the cross between a touring kayak and a white water boat. It's 13feet long. It has the bulkhead strength to keep you from getting pinned in the boat if you get pinned in a rapid, a flat bottom that will help you surf, and enough storage space for a week long trip, but no where near as sleek and fast s a sea kayak. I often take it when I'm guiding solo on a trip that has rivers, and easy portages. Sounds great. Looks very purposeful. What does that one weigh? Very good balance out of the water, I'd then assume... The T-slalom I mentioned had a custom, reinforced bulkhead installed -- that guy was prepared for the big water.

08-05-2014, 06:56 AM	#74
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Originally posted by Clavius So... Nobody wonders about the teachers motives? I've read the entire thread two times and nowhere I could find any reasons for the denial. If anything, the differences in camera systems is important to beginning photographers. So I would guess the teacher would have been happy to answer that, if he was asked the question. Wasn't the question even asked... or? Maybe using eachothers lenses is part of some of the lessons? It could easily be that simple. If that were so, he would have said words to that effect and not bothered to examine the camera---unless he wanted to check whether Pentax features a Canon compatible mount (Heaven help the class if he did...). The reason was "This camera doesn't have all the correct features." That's just ignorance. Besides, if the point were lens sharing, no Nikon would be allowed. What would he do if 2 only Nikon users showed up (and the rest Canon)? Besides, for this class, I'd expect nothing but kit lenses. Not very interesting to trade those around.

08-05-2014, 06:59 AM	#75
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Well, I do have close relatives who live in Texas, I have travelled in the USA and Canada, several times, and I do read US news sites, so I get the hostility in some quarters there to Governments doing anything, but note that I actually said "in some parts". So, maybe not such strange ideas, after all, even if North Carolina may not be one of those parts. My point was also about the relative independence of government-run Adult Education classes, which are fee-paying programs and which are under pressure here to be scaled back and even abandoned. It was not about (free) general or (subsidised fee-paying) vocational education programs that are run by the State. So, local sensitivities apart, it's my view that sponsored programs are always potentially conflicted by the interests of the sponsor, and best either avoided or treated with a degree of suspicion until they can demonstrate otherwise. I certainly agree that vendor sponsored programs are always potentially conflicted. And yep, we have noisy folks hostile to Government anything who could start an argument in an empty house. Around here, Adult Ed courses offered by Community Colleges and Town Parks and Rec Dept's are typically low cost, non credit and I've yet to see one vendor sponsored. I've recently moved from a Town of about 150,000 to one of about 17,000. While the Parks & Rec Dept offered sports, fitness and a few art courses, there were no photography courses and I proposed some. I know the folks who teach the Community College courses and the Park & Rec Courses and neither is vendor sponsored or associated with a camera store.