And this is (partly) why Pentax doesn't get much love

Cynog Ap Brychan · 08-05-2014, 02:10 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by fgaudet

Because (again no offence to anyone) most older folks I know are kinda technologically challenged...

I'm 68 (nearly), and I'm not technically challenged - in fact I build and upgrade my own computers, and I operate several camera systems from the Q to a 5x4 (not that I've used that for a long while). You young whippersnappers ought to remember that it is my generation that invented the PC and most of the techie gadgets that proliferate today! Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day

I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view.

**boriscleto** · 08-05-2014, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day

I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view.

My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

Cynog Ap Brychan · 08-05-2014, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

Well, that IS neat!

fgaudet · 08-05-2014, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

I'm still wondering where all that money comes from but I'm happy as long as it steadily comes out.

Ignorance is bliss they say.

**RobA_Oz** · 08-05-2014, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

I'm 68 (nearly), and I'm not technically challenged - in fact I build and upgrade my own computers, and I operate several camera systems from the Q to a 5x4 (not that I've used that for a long while). You young whippersnappers ought to remember that it is my generation that invented the PC and most of the techie gadgets that proliferate today! Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day

I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view.

Well, you know what Groucho Marx said about a man's age… Not that he was necessarily talking about technology, though, and I'm not far behind you. Still, even people of our advanced community standing have an obligation to keep up with what's happening around us, even some aspects of popular culture (I use the word in the deliberative sense).

Following the further explanation from the OP, I am a little surprised that someone who pursued a career in philosophy could be prejudiced by a single personal experience, but I'm astounded that they could take it on themselves to teach a course in a subject (basic or not) without getting a wider and deeper grasp of the devices involved in it, as well as the underlying general principles. Does the word "philosophy" not literally mean "love of wisdom"?

**monochrome** · 08-05-2014, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

I think it's really neat I receive an immediate email to my phone Alerting me a withdrawal has been made from my account.

My own father (who swore he was born before airplanes) never quite made the connection between a debit card and his bank balance.

I'll just note that when local photography courses were taught from 1976 to as late as 2002 they were generally taught using the most basic SLR it was possible to buy - a Pentax K1000 - and basic was a feature, not a bug.

calsan · 08-05-2014, 09:20 PM

My Dad's 71 and since his retirement, he taught himself 3D CAD and Solidworks. So I don't think "age" matters with technology if you're interested in it... It's not like old brains run out of space to store new information.

FrankC · 08-05-2014, 09:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

It's sad, but in this day and age of courses sponsored by stores, these courses are designed as much to sell product as they are to promote photography

I didn't think of this, but you may have a point here. The instructor may have been trying to steer her to buy a camera from his shop. Or, maybe he's a sales rep for Canon.
Other than that, I simply can't understand how anyone who just looks at the top of the K5 with it's command dial laid out almost exactly the same as any Canonikon is and say that it's inadequate.

By the way, if you happen to live in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area, the Hayward Area Recreational District (HARD) has some very knowledgeable, passionate and creative photographers teaching classes and workshops. Here's their link: Welcome to PhotoCentral Online

Clavius · 08-06-2014, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by MadMathMind

If that were so, he would have said words to that effect and not bothered to examine the camera---unless he wanted to check whether Pentax features a Canon compatible mount (Heaven help the class if he did...). The reason was "This camera doesn't have all the correct features." That's just ignorance.

Besides, if the point were lens sharing, no Nikon would be allowed. What would he do if 2 only Nikon users showed up (and the rest Canon)? Besides, for this class, I'd expect nothing but kit lenses. Not very interesting to trade those around.

All you say is true, of course. My point is, anybody confronted with such a teacher would ask why their camera would be insufficient. And if the reply would then indicate the features, then even a pre-beginner photo-interested student would be very interested to know what exact features would be missing.

**Lowell Goudge** · 08-06-2014, 06:34 AM

Force the instructor to speak in terms a beginner with a K1000 can understand. If they can't talk in terms of ISO, aperture and shutter speed, they are worthless as an instructor.

jimr-pdx · 08-06-2014, 08:58 AM

Ugh. Can't think of more worth saying, just - ugh.

Kayaker-J · 08-06-2014, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by jimr-pdx

Ugh. Can't think of more worth saying, just - ugh.

I thought the joke was sufficiently self-deprecating to pass, but rather than attempting a tweak, I'm yielding to your judgment. I don't know if you know it yet, but certain aspects of aging -- and what has been called more comprehensively the 'absurdity' of the human condition -- have for many, required the jokes. Seriously. There's a long, long tradition here... and I know, having studied Classical Civilization: The History of Comedy with Erich Segal at a certain famous university and read comedy in Latin, just for starters. Some people think far darker jokes are routinely perpetrated on the young as well as the aging with respect to mortality, in the name of religion. And statistically speaking, I doubt you are all that offended by this. So I'll leave you with one word... no, not "plastics" -- Perspective.

MadMathMind · 08-07-2014, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by magkelly

As long as it can take memory cards (or film), you can change lenses, and you can adjust the iso, shutter speed, and aperture, it's more than sufficient for a beginner's photography class I would think.

A film SLR would probably work too, although it would be very inconvenient because the student wouldn't be able to review the photos instantly. Also, the ISO lessons would be lost, but the big ones are focal lengths, apertures, and shutter speeds.

stevebrot · 08-07-2014, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Well, that IS neat!

My thoughts too!

Originally posted by fgaudet

I'm still wondering where all that money comes from but I'm happy as long as it steadily comes out.

There is an ink-jet printer in the ATM...

Originally posted by Kayaker-J

but certain aspects of aging -- and what has been called more comprehensively the 'absurdity' of the human condition -- have for many, required the jokes.

Humor serves to diffuse the encroaching corruption of senility. I frequently substitute jokes for cleverness.

Steve

**Des** · 08-07-2014, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by calsan

Lesson 1 - landscapes. Set camera to mountain icon.
Lesson 2 - portraits. Set camera to the little head icon.
Lesson 3 - sports. Set camera to running man icon.

K-5 didn't have those modes, so not suitable. Just my theory.

Good theory.

I wonder what would have happened if someone asked what Tv meant on the dial? Teacher: "That's for taking pictures that you can show on your TV."

08-05-2014, 06:52 PM	#96
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by boriscleto My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out... I think it's really neat I receive an immediate email to my phone Alerting me a withdrawal has been made from my account. My own father (who swore he was born before airplanes) never quite made the connection between a debit card and his bank balance. I'll just note that when local photography courses were taught from 1976 to as late as 2002 they were generally taught using the most basic SLR it was possible to buy - a Pentax K1000 - and basic was a feature, not a bug. Last edited by monochrome; 08-06-2014 at 08:21 AM.

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08-05-2014, 02:10 PM - 2 Likes	#91
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by fgaudet Because (again no offence to anyone) most older folks I know are kinda technologically challenged... I'm 68 (nearly), and I'm not technically challenged - in fact I build and upgrade my own computers, and I operate several camera systems from the Q to a 5x4 (not that I've used that for a long while). You young whippersnappers ought to remember that it is my generation that invented the PC and most of the techie gadgets that proliferate today! Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view.

08-05-2014, 02:55 PM	#92
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view. My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out...

08-05-2014, 03:05 PM	#93
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by boriscleto My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out... Well, that IS neat!

08-05-2014, 03:08 PM	#94
fgaudet Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 726 Original Poster	Originally posted by boriscleto My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out... I'm still wondering where all that money comes from but I'm happy as long as it steadily comes out. Ignorance is bliss they say.

08-05-2014, 03:34 PM	#95
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan I'm 68 (nearly), and I'm not technically challenged - in fact I build and upgrade my own computers, and I operate several camera systems from the Q to a 5x4 (not that I've used that for a long while). You young whippersnappers ought to remember that it is my generation that invented the PC and most of the techie gadgets that proliferate today! Some of us oldies can still keep up (though it's getting harder, I admit). Why, I can even manage to text on a good day I'm saying this with a twinkle in my eye, because I know you meant no offence. But age isn't the reason for that guy's attitude - it's prejudice, or ignorance, or just plain laziness in my view. Well, you know what Groucho Marx said about a man's age… Not that he was necessarily talking about technology, though, and I'm not far behind you. Still, even people of our advanced community standing have an obligation to keep up with what's happening around us, even some aspects of popular culture (I use the word in the deliberative sense). Following the further explanation from the OP, I am a little surprised that someone who pursued a career in philosophy could be prejudiced by a single personal experience, but I'm astounded that they could take it on themselves to teach a course in a subject (basic or not) without getting a wider and deeper grasp of the devices involved in it, as well as the underlying general principles. Does the word "philosophy" not literally mean "love of wisdom"?

08-05-2014, 09:20 PM	#97
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548	My Dad's 71 and since his retirement, he taught himself 3D CAD and Solidworks. So I don't think "age" matters with technology if you're interested in it... It's not like old brains run out of space to store new information.

08-05-2014, 09:26 PM - 1 Like	#98
FrankC Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 322	Originally posted by normhead It's sad, but in this day and age of courses sponsored by stores, these courses are designed as much to sell product as they are to promote photography I didn't think of this, but you may have a point here. The instructor may have been trying to steer her to buy a camera from his shop. Or, maybe he's a sales rep for Canon. Other than that, I simply can't understand how anyone who just looks at the top of the K5 with it's command dial laid out almost exactly the same as any Canonikon is and say that it's inadequate. By the way, if you happen to live in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area, the Hayward Area Recreational District (HARD) has some very knowledgeable, passionate and creative photographers teaching classes and workshops. Here's their link: Welcome to PhotoCentral Online

08-06-2014, 12:32 AM	#99
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by MadMathMind If that were so, he would have said words to that effect and not bothered to examine the camera---unless he wanted to check whether Pentax features a Canon compatible mount (Heaven help the class if he did...). The reason was "This camera doesn't have all the correct features." That's just ignorance. Besides, if the point were lens sharing, no Nikon would be allowed. What would he do if 2 only Nikon users showed up (and the rest Canon)? Besides, for this class, I'd expect nothing but kit lenses. Not very interesting to trade those around. All you say is true, of course. My point is, anybody confronted with such a teacher would ask why their camera would be insufficient. And if the reply would then indicate the features, then even a pre-beginner photo-interested student would be very interested to know what exact features would be missing.

08-06-2014, 06:34 AM	#100
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Force the instructor to speak in terms a beginner with a K1000 can understand. If they can't talk in terms of ISO, aperture and shutter speed, they are worthless as an instructor.

08-06-2014, 08:58 AM	#101
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Ugh. Can't think of more worth saying, just - ugh.

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08-06-2014, 10:06 AM	#102
Kayaker-J Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 535	Originally posted by jimr-pdx Ugh. Can't think of more worth saying, just - ugh. I thought the joke was sufficiently self-deprecating to pass, but rather than attempting a tweak, I'm yielding to your judgment. I don't know if you know it yet, but certain aspects of aging -- and what has been called more comprehensively the 'absurdity' of the human condition -- have for many, required the jokes. Seriously. There's a long, long tradition here... and I know, having studied Classical Civilization: The History of Comedy with Erich Segal at a certain famous university and read comedy in Latin, just for starters. Some people think far darker jokes are routinely perpetrated on the young as well as the aging with respect to mortality, in the name of religion. And statistically speaking, I doubt you are all that offended by this. So I'll leave you with one word... no, not "plastics" -- Perspective.

08-07-2014, 04:34 AM	#103
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Originally posted by magkelly As long as it can take memory cards (or film), you can change lenses, and you can adjust the iso, shutter speed, and aperture, it's more than sufficient for a beginner's photography class I would think. A film SLR would probably work too, although it would be very inconvenient because the student wouldn't be able to review the photos instantly. Also, the ISO lessons would be lost, but the big ones are focal lengths, apertures, and shutter speeds.

08-07-2014, 08:52 AM	#104
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by boriscleto My dad still thinks it's really neat that you can put a card into a machine and get money out... Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Well, that IS neat! My thoughts too! Originally posted by fgaudet I'm still wondering where all that money comes from but I'm happy as long as it steadily comes out. There is an ink-jet printer in the ATM... Originally posted by Kayaker-J but certain aspects of aging -- and what has been called more comprehensively the 'absurdity' of the human condition -- have for many, required the jokes. Humor serves to diffuse the encroaching corruption of senility. I frequently substitute jokes for cleverness. Steve

08-07-2014, 05:30 PM	#105
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,421	Originally posted by calsan Lesson 1 - landscapes. Set camera to mountain icon. Lesson 2 - portraits. Set camera to the little head icon. Lesson 3 - sports. Set camera to running man icon. K-5 didn't have those modes, so not suitable. Just my theory. Good theory. I wonder what would have happened if someone asked what Tv meant on the dial? Teacher: "That's for taking pictures that you can show on your TV."