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08-07-2014, 11:55 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by devouges Quote
I would just wait till end of September to see what pentax pulls out of it's hat.
With talk like that, I'm really hoping your knowing something I don't.

08-07-2014, 12:03 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by brandonbpm Quote
Thanks for the suggestion! I actually hadn't update my sig, but earlier this year I picked up a Pentax 100mm f2.8 WR Macro that was pretty pricey for my wallet lol, I hardly ever use the 50-200mm in my sig and honestly I forgot I had it because I don't keep it in either of my camera bags.

If I do decide to just go wider in the Pentax realm, any good prime glass suggestions wider than the 31? I don't often do "landscape" but it would be nice to have something like a 28mm equivalent that isn't the 18-55 kit.
Wider than 31: The DA21 and DA15 are good choices for general use. The Tamron 10-24 is a fantastic walkaround lens in tight spaces like old cities and cramped museums; sometimes backing up just isn't an option.
08-09-2014, 02:49 AM   #18
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As other I would say you are not that much invested in Pentax lens anyway. I suppose you would get most you have invested on that tamron and macro lens would you decide to sell your gear.

You can simply buy used 5D, another 28-75 but for Canon as it is an FF lens, an AF 50 or 85mm for canon and maybe a low cost tele to replace the 50-200.

Would you want to switch completely selling the old gear will allow you to get a macro lens for Canon too without any problem, and maybe even a 70-200 f/2.8 tamron.

If you go the newer D600 route with much better high iso, you would still be able to get everything (a fast prime, a 28-75 f/2.8, a macro lens) but not the 70-200. Still you would have same shooting capacities as today and FF rendering and much better high iso.

If on the contrary you like the APSC compromize of weight and size, buy a K3, sell K20D and keep the remaining money for something else. Maybe a good lens like the 31 like some said already. Or maybe a nice trip to get some good photos out of this new body?
08-09-2014, 06:53 AM   #19
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Interesting thread. I have reached the same junction with the same budget and have had the K20d since new and a shelf full of takes and a couple of DA lenses.

But thinking about personal usage made me realise that a ff is not so important for me so no need to wait until after September other than sentiment. I have a RX100 for daily carriage.

Thought about Sony A7 series and even RX1 but became enamoured by the K3 platinum set so jumped on that as it will have the flop issue fixed and all the most recent firmware updates solved.

Will be following this thread to follow your decision process.

08-09-2014, 08:36 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looking at this I would say your investment isn't so large. It also isn't yet at the top of your options to work. It isn't wide angle you are looking for since the 50mm on the 5D isn't so wide. Actually that is about the same angle you can get with the Pentax FA 31mm/f1.8 Ltd. on a K-3. Wich I would recommend you to buy. The budget is spend and you will have some wonderfull camera/lens combo in your hands.
Can you post some examples of photos taken with the Canon MK5 that you are impressed with?

I would have to agree with the Ron's statement. Your K20D is a far cry from the Canon MK5, a K-3 or even the K-5 ....if you'd like to switch over to Canon then do it now while you don't have much invested. You can probably re-coup a lot of the money.
Also, 3 of your lenses are zooms and you might not have experienced some of Pentax prime glass which are excellent especially with something like a K-5 IIs or a K-3.
Let us know what you have decided.
08-10-2014, 06:31 PM   #21
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I don't have any specific pictures in mind that I'm particularly impressed with from the 5D, it is something very subjective for me and unscientific/unmeasurable to me I just really find a certain quality about how the pictures are rendered that is very hard to explain. If I had a gun to my head and had to try, i would say that the shallow DOF pictures have an extra three dimensional feel to them and something about the shadows. More specifically I find the noise/grain profile of the camera extremely pleasing and very organic.
08-17-2014, 08:55 PM   #22
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Having had the 5D for a few years, I don't see much in it unless you feel strongly about FF. At base ISO, the 5D does have some nice rendering on better prime lenses. However, by ISO 800 the 5D RAW images are so smeared they are inferior to the 20D (I know this well because I went from the 5D to the 20D). Perhaps you should rent a 5D before seriously considering the switch. The other factor is Pentax is much better in terms of menu layout and giving you photographic controls in the way a photographer thinks.

I still have some Canon equipment for occasional action shooting, but the 5D was terrible for that kind of shooting - slow in performance, and low FPS.

Even used, $2,000 isn't going to get you far in FF. The FF sensors demand excellent optics, so you have to spend more to see a difference. In any event, any of the Pentax cameras from the past three years are going to perform as well as the consumer Canon FF bodies. The only advantage to Canon would be the longer prime and zoom L lenses - which are very good.
08-17-2014, 09:22 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
With talk like that, I'm really hoping your knowing something I don't.
Even if not, the thought makes sense.. and not just for Pentax products but for the entire camera market. Since we know there will be new products coming out shortly from many companies.. unless you absolutely can't wait, I'd wait until Photokina is over this year before making a system move to anywhere.

08-17-2014, 09:53 PM   #24
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Having spent some time with some new acquaintances, one with D800 and another with 5D3, I am surprised at how well my K-3 stands up to both of them. Not much in it. In some cases my pictures are superior (particularly those taken with my FA Ltds). Experience and abilities are very similar across all of us.
08-17-2014, 11:17 PM   #25
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I would suggest you blow some of your cash on a DA 21/3.2 limited and a FA 31/1.8 limited. They will make you see your K20D in a whole new light.

Save up the left over skrilla, and wait until after Photokina before you decide on a body upgrade. The K-3 is an amazing camera; it will give you just about everything you desire from the 5D/5DII.
08-17-2014, 11:44 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
Having spent some time with some new acquaintances, one with D800 and another with 5D3, I am surprised at how well my K-3 stands up to both of them. Not much in it. In some cases my pictures are superior (particularly those taken with my FA Ltds). Experience and abilities are very similar across all of us.
That interresting practical return from the field. Do they also have good lenses overall?

For me this just confirm that FF is just a small evolution... Little more sharpness out of wide angles, little more shallow deph of field, little more light gathering. One can buy it like one can buy FA ltd for the supperior quality. The better body might not provide as much as the better lens through. And it might need to replace the entire lens line-up anyway.
08-18-2014, 12:02 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by brandonbpm Quote
Hi, I have been using Pentax for only a few years now and I love the value provided. I started and learned photography on my K-X and then "upgraded" to a K20D which I love even more (an older sensor/camera, but with better handling and more significant features IMO), and since I have gotten pretty invested in that system. I consider myself semi-pro hobbyist, I do paid portrait and event photography on the side for a couple hundred dollars most weekends, but I mostly just do it for myself because I really enjoy it. I crave going up to full frame mostly for the viewfinder, field of view and depth of field, but I want to moreso just for the joy of shooting (street photography, going on night walks, indoor lifestyle shots) as opposed to paid or commercial work.

I am treating myself and have about $2000 I'd like to spend on a new body finally and I was originally considering finally biting the bullet and going Canikon for full frame, maybe a D600 (I like Nikon a lot) for about $1300 and a midrange lens to go with it. I have four Pentax lenses, so obviously I'm very reluctant to go to a new system where I can't use most of my current gear so I feel like it was a pricey investment without as much immediate return for me, especially since I don't want to sell what I currently have so instead I am considering this:

Getting both a Pentax K-3, and a used Canon 5D and 50mm lens.

Ever since I have played with one, and also seen results online and publications, I just feel like there is something special about the way the Canon 5D and 5DmkII render images (not as much the mkiii for some reason). I don't know what it is, maybe I'm crazy and its placebo, and that's probably true, but for some reason I just love the way those cameras render their pictures even with slightly slower glass, I just think they are beautiful and there is a certain special quality that I seem to normally be able to identify. So instead of dropping 2000 on a D600 and a $700-800 dollar lens, I think I will upgrade to the K-3 for about $1000, which I think is the best APS-C camera on the market and one of the best DSLRs right now PERIOD, and then pick up a second-hand 5D and a nifty 50 (probably the 50mm f1.8) to play with for about 600-700 total. Thoughts on this? Did anyone do something similar before?
6D and 24-105 L + 50mm 1.8. done, forget about going multiple system. That's it, it'll do everything you need it to do.
08-18-2014, 12:12 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockwork247 Quote
6D and 24-105 L + 50mm 1.8. done, forget about going multiple system. That's it, it'll do everything you need it to do.
Except portraiture (50mm is too short) and expect tele work (105 is too short). Except that the dynamic range and color deph is worse. Only isos get a boost and that's wasted by the f/4 lens. That f:4 also waste the shallower deph of field possibilities.

A $400 APSC body + a 17-50 might not be as sharp wide open but overall it will gather the same light and get the same deph of field for less than half the price. Add a 50mm f:1.4 it will provide same deph of field, but the focal lens will be better suited to portraits due to crop factor.

Overall going FF using mostly an F/4 lens add very little to the table except bulkyness and money spent.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 08-18-2014 at 12:18 AM.
08-18-2014, 12:13 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcBear78 Quote
Having spent some time with some new acquaintances, one with D800 and another with 5D3, I am surprised at how well my K-3 stands up to both of them. Not much in it. In some cases my pictures are superior (particularly those taken with my FA Ltds). Experience and abilities are very similar across all of us.
Yes, photos are produce by the photographer, not the camera. if your photography skill is equal, any DSLR will produce similar result, and I mean any DSLR, not just or K-3 or your friends D800.

Now do some experiment, grab some subject, and take your camera, take a shot, and take the D800 take a shot, same setting and everything (make sure to convert the settings because of the sensor size difference), make sure you both majorly screwed up your images (aka blown sky, lost of shadow details ect...), now go PP it, and see how much you recover on each images. Or do a DOF test, take your great Limited lens and shoot it against something similar to nikon, and see how thin the DOF on each image is....

Sorry, there's a lot of homer in this forum singing the Pentax song. Bottom line is, size does matter (if it doesn't why do some people go to medium format or even large format?). The images are still depending on the photographer skill, by this respect, 2000 dollar is better spent on photography class/lessons that can improve your skill, but most of us are gear junkies, the idea of spending money on photography class is crazy on these forum. If you absolutely have to spend money on gear, I would buy a FF and ignore these folks on here.

1) you will never wonder if FF is really the holy grail once you have it in your hand
2) it really is better than the crop sensor, no pros shoot with crop (except wild life folks, and some of them still use FF). I'm not saying the pros are always right, but I trust them more than most folks on these forums.
3) if you shoot people as you said, FF for the extra DOF control and canon/nikon for the superior flash system, you will benefit greatly from these things. I'm not saying natural light sucks, what I'm saying is pentax flash system is a dog compare to canon/nikon. And if you have the money for higher end FF camera, you'll get the canon/nikon crazy AF system too, I would say it's better than Pentax for sure.


I also suggest a sony A99 if you can live with the crappy flash system (although still better than pentax), it has a fully swinging screen that makes it easy to create usual angle shots, no other FF camera offer this, very useful feature if you are bored of shooting people at the regular angles or tired of getting on your knees for a low angle shot or lugging around a ladder for high angle shots.
08-18-2014, 01:07 AM   #30
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I have a K5, switched to a K30, had a 5D for FF wants and then switched to an A7.

I just printed another personal book of my trip to Yogjakarta and when I looked at the prints, I realized that it mattered little if it was FF or aps-c (but thats a genre that matters little over the bit more shallow DOF one can get for the same FOV of FF)

The 5D is a nice camera.
To me, its as relevant to photo taking as it was when it was first released.
Low pixel density and pleasing Canon colors for people shots that combines to give that 5D 'magic' that some folks claim (pleasing portrait color, not 'correct' )
All lenses look good and sharp because of that low pixel density.
The downsides :
1. a LCD screen so poor that you won't be using it much to judge anything.
2. Slow and so so AF accuracy (not a low light AF camera either)
3. Can't be pushed much for the shadows (but rather good highlight recovery)
4. 12mp isn't much if one needs to crop
5. 12mp will not get as much benefit from downsampling (to look sharper; to look less noisy )
The 50/1.8 is poorly built, but it certainly works (and well), not much of a complaint from me as its so cheap (and works).

The other advantage is that it takes M42 lenses (some of them at least) with an adapter.
I primarily used it for this purpose.


Why did I sell it and got the A7?
1. 12mp had its limitations as described above.
2. It did not take all my Pentax lenses
3. AF was pedestrian
4. 5D has a very good EEG focusing screen, but it can never magnify the view for even better accuarcy.
5. In size, A7 was as close to a digital ME super as has been possible till now

K30 vs A7?
They are really close in terms of details.
Yes, A7 got 24mp, but in real use and comparisons, it needs a lot of peeping and screen switching between shots to spot differences.
Makes no diff when its printed with A3 size. (I've not printed larger)
Noise - strangely, A7 gets more noisy by ISO200 (though its really just pixel peeping and no effect on real world use)
DR - seems to be a nod to A7 (real slight; ) ; But then again, most landscapes are exposure blended anyway.
Shallow DOF for the same FOV - FF wins for sure


IMO, your consideration of K3 and 5D might work out well enough.
The K3 will work in most situations and for the work that you do.
The 5D does the shallow DOF type shots.
Problem lies with how much more you will demand from the 5D in the near future (eg. moving it into your paid shoots; only being able to carry one system for a tour/job)
Also on how you will be able to resist the temptation of upgrading to a newer FF camera.

One last point.
FF isn't the 'greatest format ever' its a compromise and we have to decide what we want and loose some.
Shallow DOF may be cool, but it can be a bane for strobing and group shots as well.
I often use a FA35 at f4 or f5.6 and get everyone in a 3-5ppl group shot within the DOF.
With FF, its an f5.6 or f8 (remember that this affects ISO and or hand holdable shutter speed)
For strobing, I'd need more flash power for the same DOF (and that affects recycling time)

Last edited by pinholecam; 08-18-2014 at 01:16 AM.
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