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09-27-2006, 12:57 PM   #1
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K100D weakness

I've been learning my K100D for about 2 weeks now since I got it.
I almost cancelled the order when, just about the day after the order
the K10D was announced.
After reviewing the K10D specs, I believe the K100D is better for the
type photography I do. The only thing I wish the 100 had that the 10
does, is the weatherproofing. But the 100 is faster, less noise, a major issue for me.
I do almost exclusively outdoor/wildlife photography and am VERY impressed with this camera. I'd previously been stubborn about sticking to 35MM film. I made a dumb decision about a year ago, and
got a Nikon Coolpix 5700, based on it's purported speed (ISO800) and manual focus. Both turned out to be very misleading. I was unable to return it.
Caution: This is a trap - You get a camera, cut out the bar code from the box to get the rebate. Cannot return it if the box is cut up! Nikon will never see another penny of mine again!
Anyway - the K100D does what a camera is supposed to. You can adjust everything as you wish. Manual focus - twist the lens!
Shutter speed - select by twisting a knob, then adjust with another knob.
Aperture, same thing
ISO - punch a button then use another to select.
Picture quality at least 2 stops better than the Nikon.
Batteries last MUCH longer.
Snap the picture and it happens RIGHT NOW!
And if you want to mess with the autofocus - it does work pretty well, much better than Nikon's
Bear in mind that my 35MM is a manual focus Minolta - I didn't
get a Minolta/Sony because my lenses aren't compatible - annoying that they changed the mount. Also, based on the reviews I've seen, the Pentax is a little less noisey than the Minolta.
I might have gone with the Canon stuff - but like the in camera antishake that the Pentax has. It all boils down to speed.
In wildlife photography you have all the speed disadvantages stacked up. Dim light in the forrest, long lenses, early or late in the day that wildlife typically moves, etc.
Anyway - the only real gripes that I have with the K100D so far.
1. Can't use rechargeable CRV3's - I bought some before realizing it's not recommended in the manual. These batteries are just a little over voltage. I found that I can use one and a couple NM's.
Reduces the voltage just enough.
This should be better in the cold, but it would be better if I could use both.
2. Auto ISO mode does not work when selecting exposure compensation or using the flash. The camera defaults to ISO 200.
You must override with manual ISO selection if this is too slow.
I wonder if they may eventually have a firmware upgrade to address this.
Any other K100D users out there that are pushing this camera in the outdoor world? I'd love to hear what you think!

Larry

09-27-2006, 02:07 PM   #2
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K100d

Is a great camera. It should do well with outdoor pictures of wildlife. I wuould not use 2 of the crv batts in camera. A friend of mine did and it locked her DS up. Had to go into Pentax for repair. They were nice and fixed it in warranty. I also would be wary of mixing 2 different types of batteries. There is a warning about that in the book too. No idea what that could cause to happen. I have the DS. Would love to have the SR. I also wish my jpeg shots looked as good as yours directly from the camera. Things do get better. Enjoy the camera. Post some shots.
thanks
barondla
09-27-2006, 02:31 PM   #3
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Welcome!

Hi Larry:

I'm glad to see another wildlife fanatic on board.

So far I've found my K100D to be better than I had even hoped for (doesn't happen too much nowadays).

I've posted a couple of shots in the "Post your photos" forum which I'm happy with, and I'm just starting to learn the finer points of this camera.

I have a Tamron 1.4x TC on order, and am hoping it works as well as it's reported to. Still looking for a long prime (3-400). I've got an old Pentax F 100-300 coming, too, so I'll be doing a lot of experimentation to see which combo's I like best.

This camera has really brought a lot of the FUN back to my photography.
09-30-2006, 04:49 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by leaton Quote
After reviewing the K10D specs, I believe the K100D is better for the
type photography I do. The only thing I wish the 100 had that the 10
does, is the weatherproofing. But the 100 is faster, less noise, a major issue for me.
Larry
How does anyone know what type of noise the K10 is going to produce since there have been virtually no photos shown from the camera. I have read so many negative remarks about this new offering and I just don't understand how statements can be made when it is all speculation. Not trying to start anything but I just don't understand how comments such as this can be made.

09-30-2006, 05:08 AM   #5
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Also how is the K100 faster than the K10 ???
09-30-2006, 05:11 AM   #6
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Well - here are the reasons I am going to stick my neck out and predict the performance of a camera before it's available:
- Sensor size has been anounced and it's the same as the K100D (APS)
- Noise is a function of square footage per pixel
- The square footage per pixel of the K10D is approximately 6/10 or 60% of the square footage per pixel of the K100D

That sums up the theoretical reasons.

Real world - review the write ups on other cameras that have been coming out with 10MP and APS size sensors - the Sony for instance.
which I think uses the same sensor that the K10D will be using.
From reviews of the Sony - I gather that it's about one stop slower (noise at ISO 1600 is comparable to noise at ISO3200 on the 6MP sensor)

So please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I think my assumptions are accurate based on current technology, noise goes up as pixel count goes up unless the sensor is made larger.

Of course software can correct in some cases, or hide in other cases, the noise. But that can only go so far......
09-30-2006, 05:19 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by leaton Quote
So please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I think my assumptions are accurate based on current technology, noise goes up as pixel count goes up unless the sensor is made larger.
So what about the 350d/20d/30d from Canon they are 1.6 crop so smaller than the sony 6mp sensor but also lower noise... so there is more to it than just pixel density..



My prediction..

I think you will find looking at the image 100% the K10d will have more noise but printing out a K100d and a k10d image at the same size, you will actually see a cleaner image from the k10d... But this is all speculation, we'll see when it arrives!
09-30-2006, 05:40 AM   #8
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You make a good point Joel
The Canons use a CMOS sensor which seems to be a slightly better
technology from a noise perspective. I don't know why.

The Pentax uses a CCD sensor - different technology, perhaps there are other advantages? I image there are tradeoffs.

Canon seems to have an edge in the noise area, probably because of this.

However, Canon does not have the SR in the camera, which is what sold me on the Pentax. The SR seems to more than make up for the slight noise advantage of the Canon.

I'm amazed that I can shoot a pretty good picture handholding a
300MM lense in moderate shade with the K100D. I love this camera. It has all the same creative control of my old Minolta
X700 and then some. The controls are accessible such that I don't have to carry the manual around with me to use it and I can make
adjustments before the light changes or the animal gets bored and leaves!

09-30-2006, 06:33 AM   #9
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Larry

Hi Larry:

Just curious- what 300 are you using and how is it performing on your K100D?
09-30-2006, 09:41 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digital Hobby Quote
How does anyone know what type of noise the K10 is going to produce since there have been virtually no photos shown from the camera. I have read so many negative remarks about this new offering and I just don't understand how statements can be made when it is all speculation. Not trying to start anything but I just don't understand how comments such as this can be made.
Less noise? Perhaps at the ISO 100 setting. We'll have to wait for the tests.

More pixels on same sensor size results in more noise. Pentax has eliminated ISO 3200 from the K10D, it was probably too noisy.

Noise can be reduced by software at the expense of lower resolution. We'll see what compromise between noise and resolution they have chosen for the K10D.

The *istD series has very low noise, at the expense of resolution, and was hammered in many reviews for this. I think Pentax got tired of the negative reviews and is opting for increased resolution and a bit more noise with the K series.

My question is, when we shoot raw, do we bypass the camera's adjustments altogether, and is it then the RAW converter in Photoshop (or whatever program we use) which determines the resolution/noise ratio?
09-30-2006, 04:06 PM   #11
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Tom
I'm using the new Sigma DG 70-300 4-5.6 with the Macro.
A good compromise I think on price, size and focal length.
I'm far from a lense expert however.

Ole
I was curious about RAW mode as well, so did some searching
and found a VERY nice website with lots of info. There is also
info explaining lense details, a very good description of the histogram, circle of confusion (what a name!) and more.
Here is the link to the RAW description.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-raw-files.shtml


And by the way - just got back from Radio Shack - picked up a few parts and made a cable release from the plans on another thread. The shutter release part works well, but the autofocus doesn't seem to work. Does anyone know if there is autofocus on the genuine article?

Larry
10-01-2006, 05:35 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by leaton Quote
After reviewing the K10D specs, I believe the K100D is better for the type photography I do. The only thing I wish the 100 had that the 10 does, is the weatherproofing. But the 100 is faster, less noise, a major issue for me.
You're wrong. While we can't comment on noise issue (full size samples from production camera), people who tried K10D claim that it is much faster than all other Pentax DSLRs. Quality of pictures, according to some of them is also outstanding.
10-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #13
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Larry, thanks for the link.
10-01-2006, 05:56 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
You're wrong. While we can't comment on noise issue (full size samples from production camera), people who tried K10D claim that it is much faster than all other Pentax DSLRs. Quality of pictures, according to some of them is also outstanding.
Hmm - Edvinas - Can you provide us with some more info?
Where did you see this? Why is ISO 3200 eliminated on the K10D?
How did they improve on Sony/Minolta's noise figures while using the
same sensor?

Last edited by leaton; 10-01-2006 at 07:24 PM.
10-03-2006, 12:26 PM   #15
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I cannot see why anyone can say the K100D is faster than the K10D. This is just wrong as the K10D can take 3 RAW shots per second up to 9 total. It can also take 3 JPG's per second until the card is full. Ever notice how your K100D just poops out after 2 to 3 shots and write times are slow? My Ds is like that and I cannot wait for the K10D. DDR2 ram and 9 RAW shots are enough for me. Try taking action shots in RAW with a Ds or K100D and you will see this advantage of the K10D.

Nothing wrong with the K100D as I might just buy this camera first because the quality of the output of camera is just stunning. I think for value this camera wins hands down. I like the 30D and D80 from the other guys as well, but I think you cannot beat the K100D for value. Just an opinion....
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