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05-14-2008, 08:04 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by mconder Quote
Do you think it's a DPR/Canikon conspiracy?
I wouldn't say a conspiracy. More a subconcious bias towards thier biggest "sponsors."

05-14-2008, 06:51 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
I wouldn't say a conspiracy. More a subconcious bias towards thier biggest "sponsors."
That is a good way to put it, IMO.
05-15-2008, 02:48 AM   #108
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I found this issue is easy to reproduce. In fact, I rarely shoot in RAW (2 out of 2500 pics). But when I converted my only 2 dng (normal shoot without live view) files into tiff using DCRAW today, I did find out several hot pixels.
When I view the result in Picasa, I found Picasa doesn't remove hot pixels (of raw) either. So checking raw in Picasa seems to be the easiest way to verify this problem.
05-15-2008, 08:42 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by reddream Quote
I found this issue is easy to reproduce. In fact, I rarely shoot in RAW (2 out of 2500 pics). But when I converted my only 2 dng (normal shoot without live view) files into tiff using DCRAW today, I did find out several hot pixels.
When I view the result in Picasa, I found Picasa doesn't remove hot pixels (of raw) either. So checking raw in Picasa seems to be the easiest way to verify this problem.
Will you post the exiff data? I just purchased a k20d over a Canon 40D, so I hope that this is not a normal occurrence for this sensor and I hope I do not get one of these bum copies of the camera.

05-15-2008, 09:14 AM   #110
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What Issue (Problem)?
05-15-2008, 10:24 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Photo Tramp Quote
All camera manufactures have the same 0.2-3.0 percentage of hot pixel acceptance from brand new.
Ya, but I have owned several Canon's and I can say from experience, a brand new Canon very rarely has even one hot pixel. This is the standard Pentax should and will be held to.
05-15-2008, 05:44 PM   #112
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I understand the K20D has a feature to map out hot pixels. Can the K20D turn this feature on and off, so that if you wanted to, you could see the hot pixels?

Is it possible that the hot pixel issue is just a matter of the pixel map being turned off on some cameras?

Another question: Did Pentax add the pixel map feature because they knew the CMOS sensor was prone to hot pixels, or did they add the mapping, as a feature, and are now being burnt by their own upgrade? The question is a litle retorical.

My gut tells me that this hot pixel issue is more of a matter that various imaging software packages need to be updated to deal with K20D files. The software needs to be updated to repair the hot pixels found in the K20D.

Having said that, I do not think that the K20D has a greater or lesser chance of a HP then does the "Golden Can*n" (sounds of angels singing), or the "Mighty Nik*n" (sounds of victory trumpets). I expect the chance of a HP on a Canikon is about the same as on a Pentax.
05-15-2008, 05:59 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by mconder Quote
Ya, but I have owned several Canon's and I can say from experience, a brand new Canon very rarely has even one hot pixel. This is the standard Pentax should and will be held to.
I have not had any of the dreaded hot pixels with any of my Pentax cameras either.

You say you haven't had any on your Canons either, but is that because they are automatically removed by software, either in camera or in post process?

05-15-2008, 06:27 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I understand the K20D has a feature to map out hot pixels. Can the K20D turn this feature on and off, so that if you wanted to, you could see the hot pixels?

Is it possible that the hot pixel issue is just a matter of the pixel map being turned off on some cameras?

Another question: Did Pentax add the pixel map feature because they knew the CMOS sensor was prone to hot pixels, or did they add the mapping, as a feature, and are now being burnt by their own upgrade? The question is a litle retorical.

My gut tells me that this hot pixel issue is more of a matter that various imaging software packages need to be updated to deal with K20D files. The software needs to be updated to repair the hot pixels found in the K20D.

Having said that, I do not think that the K20D has a greater or lesser chance of a HP then does the "Golden Can*n" (sounds of angels singing), or the "Mighty Nik*n" (sounds of victory trumpets). I expect the chance of a HP on a Canikon is about the same as on a Pentax.
I'd guess that its similar to the AF adjust feature, its an ability that has always been available to repairers, but now Pentax has enabled it for end users.

Which is a very handy thing to do. I doubt its just because of the new sensor.

Maybe they listened to everyone wanting to use the repairers K10D AF adjust that got removed in 1.30 firmware? I suspect that they wouldn't mind users adjusting AF, they just didn't have a failsafe setup for the K10D, too risky.
05-15-2008, 07:33 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Until there is hard proof of this being a true problem, which as of right now it's not, let's not have 50 million threads on the same stupid subject.

If you have a K20D with said problem please post in this thread a Jpeg straight from the camera with proof of hot pixels so we can look into it. BTW, EXIF data must be intact in order to make sure everything is on the up and up.

So far I tested all 5 K20D's we have in the store and no hot pixels, had friends and costumers email me jpegs and nothing. My tally is officially 14 no hot pixel cameras and the likely hood DPR got two of them in a row is looking slimmer and slimmer.

So if you have proof show it and I don't care if you have a blog saying it's true, we are looking for proof to either make a case about it or drop it at that.

Clearly his phenopmenon is happening under some circumstance, but in Phils uinhelpful way we dont know...

1. What cicumstances? I have used live view for minutes at a time when doing lens tests and I have no hot pixels. Strikes me you have to use it for extended periods before these pixels show up. Its warns against this in the manual.

2. If the pixels are different in each shot, do they eventually reset when it cools down or do some of them stay hot? If th sensor can recover its hardly a problem is it?

Phils rather flippant remark about using LV "a bit" is clearly disingeneous and particularly unhelpful. I suspect if we knew the exact circumstances it would make it easier to replicate.
05-15-2008, 08:18 PM   #116
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..........

Wow!

..........
05-16-2008, 08:10 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
If you read my post #86, you'll see me claiming that PPL removes hot pixels as well. That's part of the reason I posted my testing method.

My claim is actually based on test: I don't see the hot pixels in PPL that I see in PhotoMatix (cf. my images in quoted post).

Updated info: If you make a large 100% loupe window (which is awfully slow to update), you'll see intermediate processing stages within PPL (due to its slowness). Then I can clearly state here that my hot blue pixel (cf. above) (when push brightness up a bit):

Appears, then disappears in the loupe window during processing in PPL.

This clearly proves that PPL eliminates hot pixels in one of its processing stages.


(Maybe PPL didn't do that in the past.)

That's good to know. Are you sure you didn't have any of the noise reduction enabled? I know it didn't do it in the past because I took a couple of long (multi-second) exposures with my K100D and had a couple of stuck pixels. PPL didn't remove them, but ACR did.

I wish the PPL software had better documentation. I like it and find more and more that it does. I just have to find out by trial and error, or by user reports like yours. Personally, I think it's a good thing that software removes hot pixels. I suspect lots more hot pixel removal is going on in all cameras. Manufacturers just don't advertise it as it's seen as a "defect".
05-16-2008, 08:14 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by mconder Quote
Ya, but I have owned several Canon's and I can say from experience, a brand new Canon very rarely has even one hot pixel. This is the standard Pentax should and will be held to.
I can say by the same experience that the several Pentax cameras that I've owned have rarely had even one hot pixel. My K20D has exactly none.
05-16-2008, 10:10 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
Are you sure you didn't have any of the noise reduction enabled?
I used it in its default setting.

There it has:
- Noise suppression: 0.
- Correction of wrong color information: >0 (dont remember exactly, but ON).
(both translated back from my German GUI)

I don't know what the second setting really means. If it removes hot pixels: fine
05-16-2008, 12:01 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I used it in its default setting.

There it has:
- Noise suppression: 0.
- Correction of wrong color information: >0 (dont remember exactly, but ON).
(both translated back from my German GUI)

I don't know what the second setting really means. If it removes hot pixels: fine
I don't really know what that does either. It's been there for several versions, so I don't think it's the "magic hot pixel removal" slider. More likely, as you said, they added it to the converter and just didn't mention it.
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