Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-14-2008, 07:18 AM   #31
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,360
QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Lowell,

The kind of action stuff I'd be shooting is real playground kind of things. A vet friend of mine works on jumpers and I get in the ring and am less than 10 feet from the jumps. Most of the stuff I'd be doing I've tried with my primes and manual zooms. 24mm to 200mm is all I need at this time. I'm sure you are right and once I start down this road LBA will kick in real quick and I'll be scrambling looking for 300mm or longer.
Regards,
Ken
Ken

Ok, I see what you are doing, and can offer some comments and advice.

a very long time ago, our favourite camera company (pentax of course) came out with a real novel idea.

They called it power zoom, and it had several features which worked very well, up to a limit.

the PZ-1 had predictive autofocus, that continued focusing the lens based upon the information derrived from the change in focus distance measured prior to pressing the shutter. It also had what they called image size tracking, so that once a shot was framed the lens kept zooming as the subject moved (in distance) to insure framing of the shot (subject size specifically) did not change.

This feature worked great for many things, but th eplayground was not one of them. What was otherwise a fine autofocus hunted horribly with my daughter (then 3) on a swing. It seems that all these predictive things only work with linear motion not oscilitory motion which you get a lot of on the playground.

I wish you luck with what ever you select.

05-14-2008, 07:33 AM   #32
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
I have both a K10D and a K20D, and with SDM lenses, the focusing speed is not that much slower as to make a big difference. The lenses focusing is driven by the same motor, wether you shoot with the K10 or K20, so the speed is about the same. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) difference betwween the reaction time of both cameras, but you don't notice it in use. If you are gifted in electronic, you might find a way to hook your camera to an oscilloscope to measure the difference (in thousands of second) betwween the two body, but I don't think it would make a difference for your intended use. For me, given the choice, I would go for the lenses. One last thing to consider: the lenses will keep their value, the bodies won't.
05-14-2008, 08:11 AM   #33
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangor, Maine
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,382
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
I have both a K10D and a K20D, and with SDM lenses, the focusing speed is not that much slower as to make a big difference. The lenses focusing is driven by the same motor, wether you shoot with the K10 or K20, so the speed is about the same. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) difference betwween the reaction time of both cameras, but you don't notice it in use. If you are gifted in electronic, you might find a way to hook your camera to an oscilloscope to measure the difference (in thousands of second) betwween the two body, but I don't think it would make a difference for your intended use. For me, given the choice, I would go for the lenses. One last thing to consider: the lenses will keep their value, the bodies won't.
Hay Thanks, You are the first person that owns both that has said the AF isn't much different. I was afraid the hype being thrown around by some of the fanboys was a little exaggerated. If I can hear that from one or two other owners I'll forget about the K20D
Thanks,
Ken
05-14-2008, 08:49 AM   #34
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
There is a difference, but not as much with SDM lenses as some people might have led you to believe. The SDM lenses focusing mechanism by itself is a lot faster than the screwdrive of conventionnal AF lenses. If you comparre focusing time of SDM lenses with any other camera make having similar optics, they alll more or less focus at the same speed. THEN, there is the reaction time of the photographer that has a lot to do with the result. Sport photography is all about anticipation of the action. If you wait to see what you want to photograph in the viewfinder, then it is to late, the moment is already gone. I do some sport photography with the K10D with very good result, but, when I started with the K10D, my success rate was kind of low. AFTER I learned to deal with reation time of combined camera/lens, my "keeper" rate went way up. The K10ĄD, to my point of view, is good enough for what you want to do, but it takes some practice to handle it properly (meaning coping with shutter delay and optics focusing time) and have results you like.

05-14-2008, 08:50 AM   #35
Veteran Member
nathancombs's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Waysboro va
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 517
QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Of course I could shoot sports with the K10D, but if a faster system makes it easier and I have the money to spend on it, why not? This is a hobby for me and if a new piece of equipment is going to make it a little easier the fun factor goes up. I have about $1,800 to spend and am trying to get the most out of it.

Since all my stuff is manual focus I want to go to an AF zoom system because it will make it easier. Even if I use my K10D I'll need to buy some new AF lenses. A Tamron 17-50 is $420 and the Pentax 50-135 is $750, that's a total of $1170. The Sony A700 plus a Minolta 24-105 and a Minolta 70-200 will cost $1,220. Which system is going to be easiest to use for action photography is the question. The IQ from both of them will be more than acceptable. The Sony system, from what I've read, will be a little faster and better tracking plus have a longer reach.

If LBA kicks in and I want to go longer the Sigma 50-500 seems to be a reasonable solution and it is available in both mounts so that's a wash. My suspicion is that lens would focus a little quicker on the Sony than my k10D.

I'm very open to other options that are within my budget.

Thanks,
Ken
why pay that much. i find that if your not shooting in LOW light the Sigma 70-300 APO works WELL for sports and it runs about 150$ and i think Tameron has a = lens also the FA 100-300 and FA 80-200 work well.

fast glass well there is the kicker LOL that is EXPCIVE all my fast stuff is MF but not hard to use eather. heck i have used my Pentax M- 1.7 50. the trick is to pre focice witch is a bit tricker with some sports. but things like baceball it is REALLY ez because you know where the ball is going to be for the most part.
05-14-2008, 09:28 AM   #36
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Hay Thanks, You are the first person that owns both that has said the AF isn't much different. I was afraid the hype being thrown around by some of the fanboys was a little exaggerated. If I can hear that from one or two other owners I'll forget about the K20D
Ken,

I own 'em both, too (K10D/K20D) and have shot thousands of sports photos - mainly volleyball, but also soccer and swimming - with both cameras. I'm not a measurebator. I'm a Roman Catholic and in my church, measurebation is reckoned a sin. So I can't say there is NOT a difference in the auto-focus speed. But I will say that, if there is a difference, I have not noticed it, either with my normal auto-focus lenses (like the Pentax 16-45 f/4 or the Sigma 17-70 macro) or with the Pentax DA* 50-135 f/2.8. I've used 'em all on both cameras. What matters most for both cameras (no surprise here) is light and contrast. Unfortunately I shoot a lot in low light, and both cameras will occasionally hunt, but it's not too big a problem, perhaps because I've learned how to avoid it.

As for your two-camera theory, I will confess that I've given this some thought myself, not because I'm looking for a second camera that will do some specific task better than the Pentax K10D/K20D, but because I think occasionally that I should perhaps hedge my bets and keep a foot in another platform. I do continue to shoot a roll every month with my Nikon N65, but like you, I'm too into digital now to consider that a serious alternative. I love Pentax for what it does and what it costs; but I'm not happy about a couple of the things it doesn't do or doesn't do so well, and as my photography practice grows I worry that in the future I may feel that moving to another platform is the right thing to do.

I'm not sentimental about the brands, definitely not a "Pentaxian". I just want stuff that works (and that I can afford). My impression is that Olympus is making some excellent cameras. But I'm not persuaded that the 4/3 system is a good idea in the long run, and even if it's a good idea, I'm not persuaded it's going to be a successful idea.

So what I've been considering is buying a low-end Nikon digital, like the D40 or the newer D60 (or even the D50, which oddly is older than the D40). But so far, the limitations of these models as compared to the Pentax K20D are so great that I just can't convince myself it's worth spending even $500 or $600.

It would be very cool to be able to own a slew of really good cameras. I'd love to have a Nikon D300, a Canon 40D and even a very good Olympus or Sigma. If I win the lottery, I'll do it. But especially for sports photography or any kind of photography where things happen really fast, you must be able to use the camera intuitively, and that means you have to have developed habits, so you can use the camera without stopping to think about what you're doing. And it's really hard to reach that level of comfort when you're using multiple systems that are quite different. I find it awkward to shoot with the Pentax *ist DS because I'm so comfortable with the ergonomics of the K10D/K20D now that the *ist DS's lack of a rear e-dial is an annoyance. If I use the *ist DS I tend to put it into P mode - but even then, I miss hyper-manual.

So after thinking about it, I'm going to stick with Pentax. It's not perfect for everything I do. In fact, it's hardly perfect for anything that I do. But it's very good at most of what I do, the ergonomics are great, the prices are very competitive, and I know that other brands have their problems, too, even if I don't know exactly what they are.

Will

Last edited by WMBP; 05-14-2008 at 09:43 AM.
05-14-2008, 10:21 AM   #37
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangor, Maine
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,382
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Ken,

So after thinking about it, I'm going to stick with Pentax. It's not perfect for everything I do. In fact, it's hardly perfect for anything that I do. But it's very good at most of what I do, the ergonomics are great, the prices are very competitive, and I know that other brands have their problems, too, even if I don't know exactly what they are.

Will
Will,

Thanks! I've become convinced the K20D isn't going to give me a better AF camera so that is now off the consideration list. I've read to many threads here and elsewhere about people switching systems for better AF speed and have become convinced shooting action stuff is a little easier with almost anything other than Pentax. Your comment about being comfortable with two different systems is valid but I think that can be overcome.

Sony is looking more like the best second system primarily because of the compatibility with older Minolta AF glass. Sony, along with Olympus are not doing the budget shopper any favors on the prices they are charging for new lenses. I've studied the problems the Sony system has and they are as bad or worse than the Pentax problems but their AF is better. Two old Minolta AF zooms and an A700 will cost me $1,220 and I should be able to sell that combo for a small loss if it doesn't work out. There might be a chance I'll be able to drop that cost Sunday but if I can't I think I'll still do it.

Thanks for your help.

Ken
05-14-2008, 10:41 AM   #38
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Your comment about being comfortable with two different systems is valid but I think that can be overcome.
Probably. If I had more money in the bank I'd be willing to try to overcome it myself. ;-)


QuoteQuote:
Sony is looking more like the best second system primarily because of the compatibility with older Minolta AF glass.
If you take the plunge, Ken, I hope you'll report back here in a month and let us know. Perhaps a thread entitled "Wow, I love Sony!" wouldn't get a warm reception here, although I personally am always open to that kind of thing. If you hesitate, I'd be grateful for a PM if you remember me. I always think it's valuable to hear from someone who already knows the Pentax cameras and can give a solid comparison to something else.

Will

05-14-2008, 10:50 AM   #39
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangor, Maine
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,382
Original Poster
I'm not going to give up Pentax and will defiantly post my feelings. This forum is great and should be open to as much accurate info the members are willing to share.

Ken
05-14-2008, 10:55 AM   #40
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,713
QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
As much as I like my Pentax, if I had an unlimited amount of money to blow on my hobby, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Sigma SD14 & some lenses and playing around with it. I've seen some pretty amazing pictures come out of it.

Heather
Actually the Sigma SD14 is a pretty good choice as a second system for Pentax owners Heather.
Especially if you have an assortment of Pentax manual focus glass lying around.

I've modified 4 or 6 of my Pentax lenses to fit my SD14. They still work with my Pentax as well, and in my opinion even better.
My screwmounts don't need any work done.
I use the same screwmount adapter, although I'm waiting for the proper one to arrive for the Sigma.

With the lenses I don't want to modify I just use a modified TC

However as I'm sure you know the AF isn't any better than the Pentax system.
It isn't any worst either, just different.
So it isn't the system for someone wanting a faster focus speed.
05-14-2008, 04:03 PM   #41
Site Supporter
Sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Coastal Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 18,522
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
I have both a K10D and a K20D, and with SDM lenses, the focusing speed is not that much slower as to make a big difference. The lenses focusing is driven by the same motor, wether you shoot with the K10 or K20, so the speed is about the same. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) difference betwween the reaction time of both cameras, but you don't notice it in use. If you are gifted in electronic, you might find a way to hook your camera to an oscilloscope to measure the difference (in thousands of second) betwween the two body, but I don't think it would make a difference for your intended use. For me, given the choice, I would go for the lenses. One last thing to consider: the lenses will keep their value, the bodies won't.
Hey, flyer - thanks for the info. Have you noticed a difference with conventional DA lenses that focus via the in-body motor?

Thanks,

Jer
05-14-2008, 04:36 PM   #42
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
Hey, flyer - thanks for the info. Have you noticed a difference with conventional DA lenses that focus via the in-body motor?

Thanks,

Jer
There seems to be a difference, but this is an entirely subjective analysis since there are so many factors influencing focus acquisition, like contrast, brightness and so on. But, in actual picture taking situation, I don't think the difference is large enough to influence the results you are going to have. I remember 35 years ago (yes, I'm that old), some photographers where doing outstanding sports photography with manual focus AND exposure AND no motor drive, but those fellows knew their equipment better than they knew their wife.
05-14-2008, 06:27 PM   #43
Site Supporter
Sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Coastal Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 18,522
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
There seems to be a difference, but this is an entirely subjective analysis since there are so many factors influencing focus acquisition, like contrast, brightness and so on. But, in actual picture taking situation, I don't think the difference is large enough to influence the results you are going to have. I remember 35 years ago (yes, I'm that old), some photographers where doing outstanding sports photography with manual focus AND exposure AND no motor drive, but those fellows knew their equipment better than they knew their wife.
Thanks for the quick reply, my friend. I'm also that old and I remember having little trouble with catching my active 3-year-old daughter in focus with my MX and M50/1.7. Today, both my K10D and I are too slow to keep up with my equally active 3-year-old granddaughter.

Jer
05-14-2008, 06:55 PM   #44
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,360
QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Will,

Thanks! I've become convinced the K20D isn't going to give me a better AF camera so that is now off the consideration list. I've read to many threads here and elsewhere about people switching systems for better AF speed and have become convinced shooting action stuff is a little easier with almost anything other than Pentax. Your comment about being comfortable with two different systems is valid but I think that can be overcome.

Sony is looking more like the best second system primarily because of the compatibility with older Minolta AF glass. Sony, along with Olympus are not doing the budget shopper any favors on the prices they are charging for new lenses. I've studied the problems the Sony system has and they are as bad or worse than the Pentax problems but their AF is better. Two old Minolta AF zooms and an A700 will cost me $1,220 and I should be able to sell that combo for a small loss if it doesn't work out. There might be a chance I'll be able to drop that cost Sunday but if I can't I think I'll still do it.

Thanks for your help.

Ken
You know, I often wonder if this whole argument is somewhat along the lines of taking an apple from your neighbour's tree even if you are not hungry, just to see if it really tastes better.

From everything I have shot wth my pentaxs, from KX to PZ-1 to *istD to K10D, I have been pleased with the oferall performance. Yes I bitch about metering from time to time, but it's interesting, that with the exception of my PZ-1 not being able to predict the motion of my daughter going back and forth on a swing, none of my AF bodies has given me any real issue with the precision, or speed. Maybe I am not demanding, maybe I am lucky, I don't know, but it's performance is not the biggest item on my wish list. Perhaps that would change if I were to seriously move to this as a profession, and I accept that what really is missing in the lineup is a pro spec pentax, but I would need some seriuls play time with anything else before I would jump.
05-14-2008, 07:10 PM   #45
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangor, Maine
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,382
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
You know, I often wonder if this whole argument is somewhat along the lines of taking an apple from your neighbour's tree even if you are not hungry, just to see if it really tastes better.

.
LOL,
Very well said Lowell. In my case it just might be another example of me not being capable of making a commitment. Several women through the years have accused me of that.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
a300, action, af, budget, camera, dslr, iso, k10d, k20d, lens, lv, photography, stuff
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Macro Approach JesseDavis Post Your Photos! 6 05-21-2010 05:38 AM
Nature A different approach Rense Post Your Photos! 21 12-12-2009 07:49 AM
Do not approach! drmartin Post Your Photos! 3 06-18-2009 06:11 AM
Lateral thinking on a new Pro K body mr.voigtlander Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 09-09-2008 12:05 AM
I'm thinking of getting a K10D body only, but what lens to buy? columbus Pentax DSLR Discussion 17 03-25-2008 08:22 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top