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05-10-2008, 12:36 PM   #1
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Thinking of going to a dual body approach

Hi,
Sorry for the length of this post but wanted to outline my full thinking on this in hopes you could see were I'm coming from and then express your opinion.

I've been shooting with my K10D for 1 1/2 years now and using primes in manual mode 99% of the time. Very seldom, if ever, do I go over ISO 400. The image quality is good enough for me and don't need more resolution.

Now I would like to try some action shooting without spending an arm and a leg. With enough practice it can be done with my K10D and A 35-105 lens but this is a hobby and want to make it as easy as possible and am willing to spend some money to get equipment that will assist me. I've set a budget of $1,800 for this.

The best Pentax has to offer is the K20D and 16-50 lens which is within budget. There is no way I'll buy the 16-50 lens with the possible problems I might run into so that leave the 16-45 that is only available on the used market. It's not SDM nor is it very fast. Cost $1,600.

The Sony option would be an A 300 with the 16-60 lens. The IQ would be close to the K10D at ISO 400 or less and according to reviews the AF is faster than the K20D. It also has a LV that actually works and can be used for fine tuning focus when mounted on a tripod. The Optical viewfinder is crap but how important is that if using AF while shooting action stuff? I think the shutter is silent when shooting in LV which could be a bonus for certain situations. Cost $1,300.

I don't like the feel and size of the Canon 40D so even if it were within budget it is not up for consideration. The Nikon D300 is out of the price range and the only Olympus that has fast FA is the E-1, also out of budget. That leaves the A300 or K20D. Considering that AF speed is the driving force behind this choice I'd say the A300 wins.

There is of course no way I'll give up my k10D. It would still be my main squeeze, the A300 would be just for action stuff. Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Ken

05-10-2008, 12:49 PM   #2
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If you are happy with your present camera, and want to expand to some sports / action, there is no need for a second body, just go foe one of many possible zooms that can take you to 300mm F4 or 400 mm F5.6. Even consider a BIGMA.

All of these are about $700-$1000 and don;t believe everything people say about the noise on the K10D above 400.

I have shotr and printed all the way to 1600 ISO with the K10D and 3200 ISO with the *istD.

However, if you want to spend all of your 1800 get a K10D body and perhaps a sigma 100-300 F4. That will do just fine.

If you want to go really cheap. get a good MF lens. There is a 300mm F4 pentax in the market place right now for $250 and a SMC A 400 F5.6 for $500.

you will find with just a little practice MF is fine for action. and in some cases better because you can to a certain extent have continuous focus.
05-10-2008, 12:52 PM   #3
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regken,

First, I love Maine. I rode my motorcycle from Ontario to Portland and back in 5 days, and have great memories of the place.

Second, I need to ask....what is "action" shooting, and what makes you pick the 16-XX length of lenses for this type of shooting?

Third, depending on your answer to the question above, I think your best option might actually be an A700 with some kind of lens. Abes of Maine has the a700 for ~$1150, and there are some great minolta lenses on the used market that I can point you to if you can give me some more details on how you'll use the equipment. The A700 has blistering AF and a great viewfinder, you'd just need to find the right glass for the front of it.
05-10-2008, 12:59 PM   #4
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Have you considered film? Like the PZ-1p, which has a high fps rate? You can get that camera for a price way below your budget so you'd have plenty money left for film and scanning!

05-10-2008, 01:11 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
regken,

First, I love Maine. I rode my motorcycle from Ontario to Portland and back in 5 days, and have great memories of the place.

Second, I need to ask....what is "action" shooting, and what makes you pick the 16-XX length of lenses for this type of shooting?

Third, depending on your answer to the question above, I think your best option might actually be an A700 with some kind of lens. Abes of Maine has the a700 for ~$1150, and there are some great minolta lenses on the used market that I can point you to if you can give me some more details on how you'll use the equipment. The A700 has blistering AF and a great viewfinder, you'd just need to find the right glass for the front of it.
Canoe races, track meets, hockey, and wrestling. All things I'd be able to get very close to the action. It would be nice to also have a 70-210 fast AF zoom. What does Minolta have that fits the bill? I've considered the A 700. I can't see me wanting to go longer than 200mm. The idea of old Minolta AF lenses sounds really good. let me hear your ideas.

Thanks,
Ken
05-10-2008, 01:15 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
If you are happy with your present camera, and want to expand to some sports / action, there is no need for a second body, just go foe one of many possible zooms that can take you to 300mm F4 or 400 mm F5.6. Even consider a BIGMA.

All of these are about $700-$1000 and don;t believe everything people say about the noise on the K10D above 400.

I have shotr and printed all the way to 1600 ISO with the K10D and 3200 ISO with the *istD.

However, if you want to spend all of your 1800 get a K10D body and perhaps a sigma 100-300 F4. That will do just fine.

If you want to go really cheap. get a good MF lens. There is a 300mm F4 pentax in the market place right now for $250 and a SMC A 400 F5.6 for $500.

you will find with just a little practice MF is fine for action. and in some cases better because you can to a certain extent have continuous focus.
I hear what you are saying Lowell but I want to go the zoom AF route for this and want to be able to track as easily as possible. I've got the K10D and want something with better AF and tracking ability.
05-10-2008, 01:16 PM   #7
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If you use SDM lenses on the K10D, the focusing will be faster than the screwdrive focusing mechanism of standard lenses. You should try to borrow or rent an SDM lense to see if the focusing is fast enough for your intended use. I do some hockey, basketball and soccer with SDM lenses and the focusing is good enough for me with said SDM lenses. Maybe it would be good enough for you too.
05-10-2008, 01:17 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
Have you considered film? Like the PZ-1p, which has a high fps rate? You can get that camera for a price way below your budget so you'd have plenty money left for film and scanning!
Ole,
Film just isn't for me. I enjoy digital PP to much and the idea of scanning then PPing doesn't sound like my style.

Thanks,
Ken

05-10-2008, 01:19 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
If you use SDM lenses on the K10D, the focusing will be faster than the screwdrive focusing mechanism of standard lenses. You should try to borrow or rent an SDM lense to see if the focusing is fast enough for your intended use. I do some hockey, basketball and soccer with SDM lenses and the focusing is good enough for me with said SDM lenses. Maybe it would be good enough for you too.
The problem there is the SDM lens that is the most appealing is the 16-50 and as I stated there is no way I'll spend that kind of money on a lens that could give me so many problems.
05-10-2008, 01:42 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Canoe races, track meets, hockey, and wrestling. All things I'd be able to get very close to the action. It would be nice to also have a 70-210 fast AF zoom. What does Minolta have that fits the bill? I've considered the A 700. I can't see me wanting to go longer than 200mm. The idea of old Minolta AF lenses sounds really good. let me hear your ideas.

Thanks,
Ken
Hey Ken,

Let me get more specific...how important is fast aperture? Do you want an f2.8 zoom? Do you need 16mm on the wide end? Maybe list your priorities in terms of lens characteristics. Minolta has a 24-105 f3.5-4.5 that's good...and a 70-210/4 that's a legend...but I don't know if those are fast or wide enough....

I'll keep pondering while you think lenses.
05-10-2008, 01:56 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
Hey Ken,

Let me get more specific...how important is fast aperture? Do you want an f2.8 zoom? Do you need 16mm on the wide end? Maybe list your priorities in terms of lens characteristics. Minolta has a 24-105 f3.5-4.5 that's good...and a 70-210/4 that's a legend...but I don't know if those are fast or wide enough....

I'll keep pondering while you think lenses.
Those are fast enough and wide enough. The big question is how well the AF works on either the A 300 or A 700? What do you think the ebay average price would be for these two?

Thanks,

Ken
05-10-2008, 02:31 PM   #12
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i am a wedding photographer. while i'm moving around from location to location sometimes i get the occasional 'action moment' where i have to shoot really fast and i can nail it with my AF...almost every time.
also, i take my nephews to the park and let them run round the playground while i shoot them on the 50-135...i get too many shots to count. we are talking about a 3, 4 and 6 year old here..

while im working a pro job, i carry two k10d bodies, one has the 16-50 and one has the 50-135
they both have a 540fgz on the hotshoe
it works great!

now
the k20d has the ff/bf adjust so that shouldnt be a problem with any lens unless you have more than 20 lenses that have focus problems.

i just got a camera back from the shop(my fault not the camera's fault) and i now have the 'model revision 8.2' and my autofocus is FAST 8)

my 16-50 was perfect on the first try and i would think that pentax has most of the problems with that lens corrected. (correct me if i'm wrong)
50-135 is killer as well.

so i suggest picking up the k20 and the 16-50 as long as you have a longer lens already.
(i do not suggest a non sdm lens at the moment)
05-10-2008, 03:45 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
The problem there is the SDM lens that is the most appealing is the 16-50 and as I stated there is no way I'll spend that kind of money on a lens that could give me so many problems.
16-50mm for action? You should get the 50-135 (or even the upcoming Sigma 50-150 hsm)
05-10-2008, 04:25 PM   #14
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I have the 16-50 and 50-135 and they are FAST. I don't know if I'd win a focusing speed contest with Nikon, Canon or Sony, but the difference would be in thousands of a second, not even worth mentioning, and for sport, the 16-50 is definitively too short (never had any problems with mine). My K10D is also running model revision 8.2 due to a faulty AE-L switch (think I should thank that switch?). The 50-135 is terrific for sports when the action is not too far away, but I'm thinking about investing in a 200 2.8, since the 60 250 seems to be a dream.
05-10-2008, 05:47 PM   #15
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Something that no one has mentioned; If you buy another brand, you then lose lens compatibility between the two cameras. You would also not have a backup body unless you plan to double up on all the lenses you have.
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