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09-03-2014, 11:10 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tarragon Quote
Hmmm, I never have to tweak my white balance too much (though it's always worth playing with it no matter what camera you have IMO). Also, I'm a little puzzled about your comment about having to delete so many "out of focus shots" every time you begin editing. I don't know what you've been doing, but I shoot totally manually because that's the way I am, and I very rarely get a focus wrong. Maybe, just maybe, it wasn't the camera you were using that was the problem???

Im happy for you with your nikon, but worry about it a little because you are still getting some shots out of focus. Seems a lot of money to spend just to find out you might need to learn better basic camera skills???!

I don't have a nice camera like the k5, and cut my pentax teeth on a k100d which has a smaller, dimmer, harder to see viewfinder. It didn't stop me though. As for dual sd slot, wouldn't that just mean you can back up all those out of focus shots??
I cant focus manual in a wedding, not enough time, and also not on kids that are running towards / away from you. D600 could do it no problem. FWIW my last pentax body is the now too-old k-x, so the current bodies have definitely improved in this regard. My skills have stayed the same but my keeper increased, so that's all I care about.

I still love the K100D, the colors are really special, but it can't do what I want it to do, so I have to make the expensive move.

If the card is damaged, the pictures are gone, there's nothing to back up. I've had this happen once and luckily it was just a small portion of the wedding. Would never shoot another without dual SD (K-3 has it now)

QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
My hunch is there is no such system NOW where use case as mine is significantly cheaper/better-for-the-same-money than others (including Pentax), contrary to 2007 when Pentax was by far the best value for money in my circumstances.
IMO if you go with third party lenses, Canon / Nikon / Pentax has the same cost of ownership. The average price for Tamron / Sigma lens in all mounts are about the same.

Every brand has something special that the others dont, so it's up to which features you prefer to have in the options of your price range.

As for "midrange lenses" imo Canon is the cheapest on average, since they usually have alot of cheapo options (pentax iirc only has 5 DA L lenses, only two of them primes). You can also go with Sigma who these days make great mid/toprange lenses for all mounts, then the cost difference becomes nil.


Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-03-2014 at 11:28 AM.
09-03-2014, 11:13 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I disagree that candids are overrated though
Seconded. I have a million posed shots of my kids/family at every special event/holiday/school play, etc. They're all "nice" shots. But there is something special about being able capture that fleeting glimpse, or unguarded expression when the subject is not focusing on the camera,
09-03-2014, 01:30 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I cant focus manual in a wedding, not enough time, and also not on kids that are running towards / away from you. D600 could do it no problem.
Fair point Yes, I agree that cameras have strengths and weaknesses. If I had to do weddings and kid shots, I'd be after lightning fast autofocus too!

I'm not sure how good the k3 would be compared to the Nikon, but I wouldn't have any "brand loyalty" if I had work which needed specific criteria for the tools required. If pentax can't do the job, find something which can.
09-03-2014, 02:44 PM   #34
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I had a Canon 70D and a Nikon D7000 until I bought my Pentax K-3. Fortunately, I was able to own all three systems at the same time while I made up my mind.

The Canon 70D: Full of advanced features and capabilities, but I found them difficult to access intuitively. It may actually be a better camera than my K-3, but I was unable to bring out its talents. Lenses were on-par with Pentax DA lenses, though slightly more expensive. Canon also makes some very expensive premium lenses. They might be worth it, but not for my needs.

The Nikon D7000: the Mercedes Benz of the APSC-DSLR market. I loved almost everything about it, but the Pentax K-3 was more intuitive to use. Colors from the Nikon are very nice. The lenses were all very good, though I never ventured into "premium lens" territory with Nikon.



Noteworthy: When it comes to hunting for focus, the Canon 70D did less "end-to-end" searching than the Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-3 in my side-by-side testing. They all hunted about the same in low light.

09-03-2014, 03:43 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by AquaDome Quote
The Nikon D7000: the Mercedes Benz of the APSC-DSLR market. I loved almost everything about it, but the Pentax K-3 was more intuitive to use. Colors from the Nikon are very nice. The lenses were all very good, though I never ventured into "premium lens" territory with Nikon.
IMO one thing that pentax really got right was button ergonomics. They know that putting buttons in one row doesnt lend itself well to muscle memory. K-3 only has max 2 buttons in one row. When I had k-x I remember very well that "right arrow" is to change ISO. It's harder to remember "second / third button from the bottom" (Nikon) or "second / third button from the right" (Canon).

Not to mention Nikon keeps changing the button layout that works perfectly fine on the body before it (the zoom in / zoom out button, omg) just for the sake of change and not progress, that really gets on my nerves....

QuoteOriginally posted by Tarragon Quote
Fair point Yes, I agree that cameras have strengths and weaknesses. If I had to do weddings and kid shots, I'd be after lightning fast autofocus too!
I try not to have brand loyalty, but I still have sentimental feelings whenever I use Pentax gear, because they just feel super nice to use

Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-03-2014 at 03:48 PM.
09-03-2014, 04:26 PM - 1 Like   #36
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Ok, before all this, frankly, I don't think you are much of a Pentaxian with those lenses
Your major ones like the Tamron zooms will just form the same value/performance argument on whichever brand since they also exist on those mounts.


I've had m4/3, Canon FF.
Still using Sony FF, Sigma Foveon, Pentax


IMO, All systems can be made to be rather cheap and good.

Canon 5D
EF 20/2.8 (or even an old cheap Nikon AIs 20mm with adapter); 28/2.8; 50/1.8; 85/1.8
These for a cheap system, that works.
FF too.
Get a used 6D if one has the money and thats a nice system.


m4/3
EM5
12mm, 25mm, 45mm, 75mm
Not that cheap but the lenses/system is small, light and fast aperture.
2x crop factor does give more DOF for the same FOV though.


Sigma DP1m + pano head; NEX5n with 50/1.8 (or accompanying 35mm/50mm camera of choice; I use a Q7)
Light setup
Not expensive
OMG! level resolution when needed (from the DP1m)
Flexible shooter from the other camera.


There are just so many cameras out there nowadays.
All are capable of taking good photos.
None are perfect (though Pentax certainly stands out for the wealth of features and well thought out layout and usage flow for their cameras)


The thing about 'Needing a camera with good AF to take photos of my kid" , IMO, its more a photographer issue that the camera.
Moving kid in poor light will tax any system.
And think it over.... how often is a kid running from point A to B really that worth a shot anyway?
Often, imo, its when they are more stationary that they are interacting with the environment, other people/children, doing something.
Now those are more worth shooting.... (easier too with any camera )
Of course we'd still want some shots with the children moving about, just not as many, MHO.

Last edited by pinholecam; 09-03-2014 at 04:36 PM.
09-03-2014, 11:46 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Ok, before all this, frankly, I don't think you are much of a Pentaxian with those lenses
Your major ones like the Tamron zooms will just form the same value/performance argument on whichever brand since they also exist on those mounts.
.

Well, someone had to say it. But it's true, I am not - I just like their camera's build quality, ergonomics and price + primes build quality and size.
The thing is, after the recent shopping spree I kind of blew my budget for this year so I have too much time to ponder my future acquisitions. I also got my kids covered with Tamron so I am free to venture into more exotic stuff like DA15 or FA77. A bit harder to sell to significant other, but hey, I am not in a hurry, I'll get to be at least a minor Pentaxian.



QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
The thing about 'Needing a camera with good AF to take photos of my kid" , IMO, its more a photographer issue that the camera.
Moving kid in poor light will tax any system.
And think it over.... how often is a kid running from point A to B really that worth a shot anyway?
Often, imo, its when they are more stationary that they are interacting with the environment, other people/children, doing something.
Now those are more worth shooting.... (easier too with any camera )
Of course we'd still want some shots with the children moving about, just not as many, MHO.


True all that, but you know what they say about computers - if you need it for serious work any will do, if you want to play games you need top of the range. Similar with cameras, you can't really chase little devils in poor light with a low end DSLR and kit.
Whether they are more interesting stationary or running, I guess that's a matter of personal preference. However I'll try that argument with my daughter (wife, daughter's best friend, her mother...) next time I am tasked to shoot her dance show.
09-08-2014, 10:03 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
* K5II * Tamron 17-50 * Tamron 70-200 * DA 18-55 WR (included with camera) * M50/1.7
Going back and looking at your request, all I think you need to add to make your system optimal is a super zoom and a PTTL compatible bounce flash. I bought a Tamron 28-200 AF LD for $40 off evilbay complete with hood. Works great as the go to lens for all kid functions. They made a Pentax branded version for a while. Third party flashes are easy enough to come by.

Now for pricing: looking around a bit I don't think you can purchase a better system for what you have paid for the current set up. It looks like in an apple to apple comparison of current cameras, Pentax tends to be cheaper across the board.(Unless you find a special Deal). If you need better, it will cost more.

Now I like Pentax and have used it since the early 80's when I was borrowing my sisters stuff, but I am not Pentax or death! If you need more, look around and choose what works for you. If I had the cash to grab a K-5 at current pricing, I would be in hog heaven!!(Although what I really want is the K-50 with the AA battery option)

Joel
P.S. If you are worried about battery life, spring for a grip and you can go all day long!

09-08-2014, 01:44 PM   #39
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I have a K-5, 21 limited, 43 limited, 77 limited, plus a bunch of manual focus primes. I also have 2 Qs, one with the 01 prime and the other with vintage D Mount lenses. I shoot with the Qs the most, because they're small and small size (with good image quality) is important to me, despite the fact that I prefer a viewfinder - well, we all make sacrifices... I have also used Canon DSLRs, and I've found them to work just fine, ergonomically and esthetically. I just feel they're too big for my preference. All of my Nikons are film cameras. I love them to death, but I never liked any of Nikon's digitals.

From its start, I have been interested in the M43 system but until the last couple years, none of the camera designs really enticed me. However, I recently purchased a slightly used Olympus OMD EM1 for a very good price. after selling the zooms and buying some primes (my preference), I've had it out a number of times now. It is very well built, has lovely ergonomics and it focusses like lightning - it will do face detection autofocus as well, which helps with those fast moving people you're trying to capture. great image quality, and it's smaller than an SLR. The viewfinder is bright and I find I am quite capable to focus my vintage rangefinder lenses easily. the camera is weather sealed (none of their primes are, however). mine came with a grip, so it has double batteries - I don't really have a reliable feel for how long those batteries last, though.

It is a great camera, but I do have a number of gripes - it has TOO MANY buttons, and for the most part, the buttons are customizable. Looking for the dedicated ISO button? Doesn't have it. better map that to function 1... How about a button for flash controls. Nope. I'll see if I can find that in the menu and map it somewhere... How about a button to swap over to RAW when necessary - gotta map that too... I could go on and on but you get the point. Oly seemed more preoccupied with cramming as many customizable buttons onto the thing in attempt to make a "Pro" camera that they completely forgot about the user experience. Sure, in time you will remember what you have mapped where, but why make it this annoying... and speaking of the menu, the menu system is crap. poorly designed. unintuitive. I am also not a fan of articulated screens - I find them unnecessary and they add extra bulk to the body that is annoying, but I understand that I'm in the minority on that one...

I haven't used the EM5 or EM10, or any of the Panasonic M43 bodies, so I don't know if they suffer from the same annoyances as the EM1. I really like the system, and it's about the only one I can think of that could pull me away from Pentax, if it wasn't for the user experience. I'm still learning, but I really shouldn't have to you know? I should be able to pick the thing up with a quick glance at where all the pertinent controls are and go shooting, but unless you have the thing set to Program (yuck), you can't. I feel that Pentax has the best menu system and best intuitive control layout and feature set of any digital camera I've used, hands down. Now, if Pentax would just join the M43 effort, I would be very happy indeed.

but this is the problem with making camera recommendations - everyone has their own preferences, so what works for me may not work for you. I'd suggest renting a camera that seems promising and see if it works for you.

Last edited by emergo; 09-08-2014 at 02:04 PM.
09-10-2014, 02:53 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joel B Quote
Going back and looking at your request, all I think you need to add to make your system optimal is a super zoom and a PTTL compatible bounce flash. I bought a Tamron 28-200 AF LD for $40 off evilbay complete with hood. Works great as the go to lens for all kid functions. They made a Pentax branded version for a while. Third party flashes are easy enough to come by.

Now for pricing: looking around a bit I don't think you can purchase a better system for what you have paid for the current set up. It looks like in an apple to apple comparison of current cameras, Pentax tends to be cheaper across the board.(Unless you find a special Deal). If you need better, it will cost more.

Now I like Pentax and have used it since the early 80's when I was borrowing my sisters stuff, but I am not Pentax or death! If you need more, look around and choose what works for you. If I had the cash to grab a K-5 at current pricing, I would be in hog heaven!!(Although what I really want is the K-50 with the AA battery option)

Joel
P.S. If you are worried about battery life, spring for a grip and you can go all day long!

Thx for info. I have Metz 58 AF-1 for a long time and it serves its purpose. I don't particularly like using it with K5II as I feel the metering is completely random, at least compared to K100DS I used with it before.



Battery life is great for me so far. I do have a spare one, but I rarely need to use it, so grip is out of the question. And I wouldn't get it anyway because I already find the camera on the heavier side, especially with M50 mounted. As I plan to further explore primes when the finances allow it, the last thing I want is heavier camera.
Though to be honest, it balances fine with Tamron 70-200.
09-10-2014, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
Battery life is great for me so far. I do have a spare one, but I rarely need to use it, so grip is out of the question. And I wouldn't get it anyway because I already find the camera on the heavier side, especially with M50 mounted. As I plan to further explore primes when the finances allow it, the last thing I want is heavier camera.
Though to be honest, it balances fine with Tamron 70-200.
Want to share my experience as well. I feel the comfort of using a camera is less dictated by its total weight, but by the balance of the whole setup. One my my favourite combo is K10D + Grip + DA 40. I find it much more comfortable than without grip. I think it's worth exploring how the camera feels with the grip, since it makes the experience nicer with certain lenses (even small ones). Maybe check it out in the store and see if it's to your liking.
09-26-2014, 06:03 PM   #42
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I agree about the k10d with handgrip - I just got that lineup, and it is a brick. In a really, really good way though(!). I do like the Olympus Omd, as there was something VERY very special about its build quality and feel, but now that I have a kit bag ( or two!) of pentax lenses, my desire for the oly is waning... for now!

It's all personal choice isn't it, but for me as a "manual only" photographer I don't have the desire (or need) for the latest and greatest. Saves me a fortune!

Isn't it great to have all these choice though!!
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