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05-12-2008, 02:23 PM   #1
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Will Pentax Follow Canon's Rebate?

It seems that Canon is coming with a large rebate program
next week on multiple bodies and many lenses/flashes, etc.
Will Pentax follow suit with a rebate program of their own?


05-12-2008, 02:24 PM   #2
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NO!

pentax will have NO rebates, EVER!

this is gospel!

05-12-2008, 02:55 PM   #3
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Pentax USA had rebates on bodies, lenses, flashes, and accessories last year during summer, also, during 2006. A promotion for non art students should occur later on this year. There should be $50-$100 rebates on camera bodies.

Last edited by thear; 05-12-2008 at 03:06 PM.
05-12-2008, 04:19 PM   #4
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well... my 2 cents: probably not soon. There is a new sheriff in town (Hoya, the new boss)... I think The K20D probably won't see a rebate until Sony and canikon crowd has a chance to response with a similarly spec'd prosumer camera. Until then, expect to pay market price for it. You may see some dip in the K200D. For lenses, you may see some continuing rebates so they can move the pricier items (better margin there anyway).

05-16-2008, 11:20 AM   #5
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I'm curious about this myself. I've been thinking about upgrading my K100D so I can get the new 17-70 SDM lens coming soon, then I saw that Canon will soon offer $200 instant rebate on the 40D. I'd like to stick with Pentax, but man, this is looking awfully attractive assuming the 40D kit will drop to $1100 after the rebate.

Canon EOS 40D Kit: $1,100
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 USM IS: inc.
Tamron AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD (used) $250

My Current Pentax Gear: -600
------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $750


That is an awfully attractive upgrade for me from my K100D + Kit lens + Tamron 70-300 + Pentax A50 f/1.4. Plus I would cover my ass for the inevitable FF sensor that will surely flood the pro-sumer market in the coming years. Id love to see Pentax offer a rebate on the K20D and their DA* lenses to at least give me something to think about before jumping ship.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 05-16-2008 at 02:29 PM. Reason: typo k10d/k20d
05-16-2008, 01:20 PM   #6
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Your sums don't seem to add up, you missed the price of the 28-135, I'll add it:

Canon EOS 40D Kit: $1,100
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 USM IS: inc. $450
Tamron AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD (used) $250
Total = $1800

Instead of getting a camera with a lower resolution than a K10D, a similar amount of money would get:

K20D: $1050
Sigma 24-60 f2.8: $230
Tamron 70-200: f2.8 $700
Total = $1980

I know which I would prefer.
05-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #7
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The kit should come with the 28-135. However the 40D kit seems to be going for about 1300-1400USD right now.
05-16-2008, 02:04 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ted1212 Quote
Your sums don't seem to add up, you missed the price of the 28-135, I'll add it:

Canon EOS 40D Kit: $1,100
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 USM IS: inc. $450
Tamron AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD (used) $250
Total = $1800

Instead of getting a camera with a lower resolution than a K10D, a similar amount of money would get:

K20D: $1050
Sigma 24-60 f2.8: $230
Tamron 70-200: f2.8 $700
Total = $1980

I know which I would prefer.

Nope; didn't miss a thing. Canon 40D with 28-135 kit is currently $1329. Staring Sunday $200 more should theoretically be knocked off once the summer rebate starts for a total of $1130 (I just rounded down in my chart).

Canon | EOS 40D SLR Digital Camera with Can | 1901B017 | B&H

As far as resolution. I really don't care about the differences in 10-14 megapixels. I won't notice a difference in any print smaller then 16x20" (and I've only made one print that large my entire life). Performance and price are far more important to me.

But don't worry; I have an entire spread sheet with various scenarios (including pentax). This being my current favorite Pentax option:

Pentax K10D: $650
Pentax DA 17-70mm f/4 SDM: $550
Pentax DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8: $350

Current Pentax Gear -600
------------------------------------------
Total: $950

The only issue is I think I prefer the 40D to the K10D. I am going to test them oth out for a bit longer though before deciding. The rebate doesn't end until July, so I have time.

05-16-2008, 07:16 PM   #9
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For what it's worth, Art, I have a K10D and much prefer it to the Canon 40Ds that several of my friends have. Much nicer handling, and very comparable real-world results. (DPReview gives the K10D the edge when shooting in RAW, but whatever.) With all the improvements in the K20D, that'd be a no-brainer choice for me.

But I agree with the original premise. Pentax is the underdog, and they're simply going to have to have lower prices to compete.
05-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #10
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It's official. The Canon 40D with 28-135mm USM/IS lens is now only $1130. Pentax and Sony better do something to the prices of the K20D and A700 or they are going to have a really tough spring/early summer. Nikon at least still has their D80 to somewhat compete with it on price (around $760 last I checked for the body), but you can't get anything from Pentax or Sony that compares with the 40D's build & performance (not IQ) for around $1100. The best price I've been able to find on the K20D is $1100 body only and $1200 for an A700 body. Then you're still looking at $400 more for a lens that compares to the Canon EF 28-135.

If you can find a K10D (which is getting tougher) the best deal I've seen on it recently is $700 from ebay. That puts it in the 40D's new price range, but how many people are going to be willing to scour the internet looking for a discontinued model that a great deal of people never knew existed in the first place?

Adorama and B&H both have the 40D for $1130 now and I guess that means the less trustworthy stores will soon be undercutting that. So theoretically one might be able to get that 40D kit for under $1100. That's crazy.
05-19-2008, 05:57 AM   #11
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See that Canon is still screwing the public with their 40D setup! Think about it. They are forced to give you an image stabilized lens to compete with all the IS inbody cameras from everyone except Nikon. So they give you the 28-135 lens. A near worthless lens imho. Why? Never designed for APSc. Look at what the lens becomes with the crop factor a 45- 216. Consumer gets no wide angle. Problem is Canon makes very few APSc wideangles. They only worry about FF. They have very few APS c lenses. Think there are about 3 common ones. The kit lens (new one is stabilized) that will cost you much more than it does for those who buy it as a kit for the Rebel. A 17-something ( around $450-500) and a 10- something that runs around $800. Then the included lens is only up to 200 instead of the normal 300 eq. range most people buy. The whole reason of kit lenses was to save buyer money and help them get a wide angle lens affordably (because APSc takes away on the wide end). This kills it. Most 40D owners end up with three lenses to just cover a normal 28-300 range. Ouch.
40D is over the hill and over rated. Due to be replaced. Wouldn't consider it over the K10D and definetly not over the K20D.
thanks
barondla

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05-19-2008, 10:42 AM   #12
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Are you for real barondla? Why so much Canon hate? I can't say that I hate any brand like that. Whatever feels right and produces good results is the route I go.

Not to defend Canon too much (I am a two time Pentax owner after all K1000 & K100D), but they in fact make plenty of wide angle APS-C lenses. You can obviously get their base kit 18-55 lens, or their upgrade 17-85mm, or their superb wide angle 10-22mm. Then they have a "pro grade" 17-55mm f/2.8, 17-40 f/4, 16-35 f/2.8 an excellent (and very expensive) 14mm prime. Besides, you could always pick up a Sigma, Tamron or Tokina 12-24 (basically the same as the Pentax 12-24).

And as far as the 40D Kit with the 28-135mm lens goes. For me thats a great range. I checked my EXIF data in lightroom and out of the 200 or so "keepers" I have in saved in my library only 4 pics were taken below 28mm. I simply don't do much wide angle stuff. That said, I would still add a wide angle lens with the 28-135. I personally don't like the 18-XXX zooms because I simply don't want to have to go into Photoshop with every photo taken at the wide end and correct the host of problems most of them have.

And yes, the 40D is due to be upgraded to compete with the D300, but the K10D has already been replaced so what exactly is your point? The 40D has better ISO performance, has twice the shooting speed, a better LCD, live view, magnesium frame, and is currently selling for a great price.

The K10D has built in shake reduction in its favor; which is huge, but lets not pretend like in-body shake reduction is as effective as lens based systems; it's not. I wish Canikon would incorporate an in-body system to be used when shooting non-stabilized lenses, but shake reduction is not something I absolutely have to have at all times, especially shooting small fast primes. So it is not a deal breaker.

I hate to play devils advocate, but pure unadulterated fanboism drives me up a wall. I love Pentax, but they are no more perfect then Canon or Nikon.
05-19-2008, 02:32 PM   #13
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Not a Canon hater. Actually have a Canon 10s(film body), D60, Sigma 28-70 2.8 constant aperture, Canon XXX-300 ultrasonic zoom, and Canon EF24 2.8. Also shoot Olympus E330 & 300 dslrs.

Still say that the benefit of the 40D/ 28-135 package is to Canon. If you didn't want a wide angle it would be different. You are either paying a lot more for the kit 18-55 stabilized or paying considerably more for one of the other lenses. Funny you would do this if you barely need a wide angle.

Not sure which IS system works better. Saw a test that compared a Canon 17-85 (think) to the inbody crowd and it did no better. Have seen other tests that say in lens is better. Who knows. There are a lot of variables. Actually having IS is the best scenario. Canon doesn't make an IS macro, fisheye, nor fast 50 prime. How many actual Canon IS lenses are there? Lets say 40. There are millions for the Pentax.
Compared the K10D to the 40D because the resolution matched. I am not interested in fps so the Canon doesn't excite me. Not sure what advantage the magnesium frame is. Is it stronger than stainless steel? Canon isn't lighter.

Like the Pentax ergonomics better. Like the rear remote receptor, Multi exposure w/ auto ev adjust, builtin IS, ability to use all old lenses. Also like the Pentax image quality better. Canon has to be adjusted more to look good to me.

The K20D takes the K10D to another level. Allows adjusting ff/bf for lenses, more resolution, greater iso range, live view, lcd screen calibration, 21fps burst, etc.

Things I don't like about Pentax? Not excited about P-ttl (Nikon has better system). Hate the crippled lens mount for older K lenses. Think the live view is lame (Canon too) vs the Olympus E3 articulated screen. Pentax needs more long lenses and a ring flash for macro. Hows that?

Not a fanboy. Just like this camera better than any other I have used. Other cameras that I would consider buying is the Nikon D3, Olympus E3, and would love the Leica M8 (have those lenses too).
thanks
barondla
05-19-2008, 03:17 PM   #14
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Hi Art, I have now a K100d (I have had also, k1000, ME, Pz-1....) and a 40D. I am not going to compare autofocus or fps cos it is unfair. I would say that pentax ergonomics/ menus are better big time (to my likes). Even if it is unfair to compare stabilitations systems, considering equal stops of advantage, I like the stabilitation in lens better than in body any day of the week. Mainly cos it stabilizes what you see. On the down side, you have to pay a hefty premium for IS lenses. At any case, I bought the 40D + 300 f4 IS cos it was the same price (and after rebate would have been much cheaper) than the Pentax equivalent. If you can live without stabilitation, then Canon has also the superb 200 f2.8 and the 300 f4 at an affordable price, and the 70-200s at a good price also. As you have said, most of the new pentax lenses in the 12-135 are also avalaible in Canon at similar prices (but no weather sealing or stabilization). I would say that compatibility with old lenses is almost better in Canon (you can use OM lenses, pentax K lenses, M-42 lenses, contax lens...) but pentax A lenses are superb and you can use them easier on Pentax. For me IQ is also important, and I would say that my k100d has much less noise at high and low iso that the Canon (I only shoot raw). If you decide to follow the Canon pathway, I would recommend you to take the body only + tamron 17-50 (a good copy) + Canon 70-200 f4 with (1000ish dollars) or without IS (I dont know how much it costs now but I have seen it below 500usd used). If you decide to stay with Pentax I would recommend you the K10d + sigma 10-20/Pentax 12-24+ tamron 28-75+ tamron 70-200 (if avalaible) and you would a tremendous set up fully SR for about 2000USD. Hope it helps
05-19-2008, 07:52 PM   #15
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Hope I didn't offend you, that wasn't my intent, I just tend to always argue the other side when I see something so extreme. But you don't have to make a case in favor of Pentax to me, I bought one for all those reasons you listed, I just get tired of hearing people taking it so personally when a Pentax gets a bad review, or someone says they prefer the D300 to the K20D, etc...everyone is different, one system isn't right for everyone.

As far as me buying a wide angle to go with the 28-135, I may not use wide angles much, but the few wide angle shots I do have are well worth the cost of an additional lens to me. Especially something like a Sigma 17-35 for only $300 that I can sell when I'm done with it in a few years for a minimal loss.

I tested out the 40D again today; I personally like the ergos even though I know most people don't. But it fits my hand well. Plus, I think I'm sold on SDM. If I do stay with Pentax I'll be going all SDM.

I want to wait about a month to see if the K20D drops in price any, $1000 is about as high as I'll be willing to go for the body since the 40D is now so cheap. For the sake of argument lets say it does drop, then I'll have to decide between these two:

Pentax K20D, $1,000
Pentax DA 17-70mm f/4 SDM, $550
Current Pentax Gear -600
$950

or

Canon EOS 40D Kit, $1,130
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 USM IS, inc.
Sigma 17-35mm f/2.8-4 EX DG HSM, $300
Pentax Gear -600
Total: $830

Believe it or not that one 17-70mm lens would take care of about 90% of my shooting. Then I could save up for the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 HSM to take care of the final 10%. I don't want to spend over $1000 all at one time. I don't think I'm a good enough photographer to justify bowing any more then that all at once

...and thanks for the advice Gruoso, but if I go Canon I will only buy FF lenses, so no Tamron 17-50. I'm guesstimating with Canon when it comes time to upgrade again in a few years my only option in APS-C will be the Rebel.
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