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stevebrot · 10-10-2014, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by bradshea

Um... lack of info. Is that measuring sharpness, CA, or ?
Are the scales the same

Norm, are you trolling us?

Steve

normhead · 10-10-2014, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by PJ1

What the graphs do say, however, is that each sensor (and the in-camera processor) has its own attributes and absolute comparisons between systems are not useful. The most that can be said about lens A on sensor X if that if it is good, bad or indifferent, it is likely to be roughly similar on sensor Y.

Apart from the fact that they are both as noted the 31 ltd. done on different sensors.... and you're right, it was totally a comment on the utility of test sites, and why when the guy says "only draw conclusions for the sensor tested" you might want to believe him. But thanks all for joining in the fun.

---------- Post added 10-10-14 at 08:35 PM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

Norm, are you trolling us?

Steve

Worse than that, I'm trolling and making a point at the same time... come on, that was funny.

But mostly I was just looking for a laugh. You guys are good.

But I gotta be sneakier next time...

stevebrot · 10-10-2014, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Worse than that, I'm trolling and making a point at the same time... come on, that was funny.

I am attempting to imagine Foghorn Leghorn with a Canuck accent...

Youtu.be

"Thats a JOKE boy!"

Steve

**Digitalis** · 10-11-2014, 01:37 AM

I would be happy with either considering they are results from the basically* same lens. You can toll the others norm, but you can't troll me.

*within the allowances of manufacturing tolerances there is always some variation.

**Rondec** · 10-11-2014, 03:17 AM

Photozone is honest in that Klaus tests one copy of a lens. He tells you whose copy it is and if it doesn't seem to measure up (is decentered, etc) he will try to get a different copy. Obviously in this case, part of the difference is due to different copies and part is due to the difference between the K5 and K10 sensors. The difference in the FA 43 between his K10 test and K5 test is pretty astounding. I have to think he got a bad copy for the K5 test, because the border performance was abysmal.

rawr · 10-11-2014, 06:15 AM

Both test results show a lens performing decently even wide open, and with good, even resolution from edge to centre. What's not to like?

The issue about sample variation is a valid one though. Unfortunately not every tester has the capabilities of Roger Cicala from Lens Rentals, who can test 20 or 30 copies of the same model lens.

normhead · 10-11-2014, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I would be happy with either considering they are results from the basically* same lens. You can toll the others norm, but you can't troll me.

*within the allowances of manufacturing tolerances there is always some variation.

I would never try and troll you... it would be a waste of time... I was hoping you didn't turn up..

Originally posted by Rondec

Photozone is honest in that Klaus tests one copy of a lens. He tells you whose copy it is and if it doesn't seem to measure up (is decentered, etc) he will try to get a different copy. Obviously in this case, part of the difference is due to different copies and part is due to the difference between the K5 and K10 sensors. The difference in the FA 43 between his K10 test and K5 test is pretty astounding. I have to think he got a bad copy for the K5 test, because the border performance was abysmal.

I think it's important to note that one test of one lens, is often better than no tests of the lens, but not always.

Originally posted by rawr

Both test results show a lens performing decently even wide open, and with good, even resolution from edge to centre. What's not to like?

The issue about sample variation is a valid one though. Unfortunately not every tester has the capabilities of Roger Cicala from Lens Rentals, who can test 20 or 30 copies of the same model lens.

That's unfortunate... it would almost be worth our while to start a fund to pay the Lens Rentals guys to do this type of testing. After all, who else has the lenses in the numbers they do?

**monochrome** · 10-11-2014, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

I bet that FA31 would perform wonderfully on a K-S1.

Hey - good idea. If I want to use hyperfocal in M Mode for a night shot I can light up the LED's to see the lens markings.

tuco · 10-11-2014, 09:09 AM

What a bunch of camera nerds. Clearly, and without remorse, one would pick the graph on the left because it has more colors and is prettier!!

normhead · 10-11-2014, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by tuco

What a bunch of camera nerds. Clearly, and without remorse, one would pick the graph on the left because it has more colors and is prettier!!

Don't laugh, two women won our NFL playoff pool, based on two criteria, How pretty the teams uniforms were, and which team's player hard superior derriere's showed off in their tight uniforms.

I was on of those guys with graphs, charts and every imaginable stat going, who lost to those two.

Sometimes the person who goes for the pretty colours an other shallow criteria comes out on top.

10-10-2014, 05:34 PM	#17
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by PJ1 What the graphs do say, however, is that each sensor (and the in-camera processor) has its own attributes and absolute comparisons between systems are not useful. The most that can be said about lens A on sensor X if that if it is good, bad or indifferent, it is likely to be roughly similar on sensor Y. Apart from the fact that they are both as noted the 31 ltd. done on different sensors.... and you're right, it was totally a comment on the utility of test sites, and why when the guy says "only draw conclusions for the sensor tested" you might want to believe him. But thanks all for joining in the fun. ---------- Post added 10-10-14 at 08:35 PM ---------- Originally posted by stevebrot Norm, are you trolling us? Steve Worse than that, I'm trolling and making a point at the same time... come on, that was funny. But mostly I was just looking for a laugh. You guys are good. But I gotta be sneakier next time... Last edited by normhead; 10-10-2014 at 05:40 PM.

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10-10-2014, 05:22 PM	#16
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by bradshea Um... lack of info. Is that measuring sharpness, CA, or ? Are the scales the same Norm, are you trolling us? Steve

10-11-2014, 01:37 AM	#19
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	I would be happy with either considering they are results from the basically* same lens. You can toll the others norm, but you can't troll me. *within the allowances of manufacturing tolerances there is always some variation.

10-11-2014, 03:17 AM	#20
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Photozone is honest in that Klaus tests one copy of a lens. He tells you whose copy it is and if it doesn't seem to measure up (is decentered, etc) he will try to get a different copy. Obviously in this case, part of the difference is due to different copies and part is due to the difference between the K5 and K10 sensors. The difference in the FA 43 between his K10 test and K5 test is pretty astounding. I have to think he got a bad copy for the K5 test, because the border performance was abysmal.

10-11-2014, 06:15 AM	#21
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Both test results show a lens performing decently even wide open, and with good, even resolution from edge to centre. What's not to like? The issue about sample variation is a valid one though. Unfortunately not every tester has the capabilities of Roger Cicala from Lens Rentals, who can test 20 or 30 copies of the same model lens.

10-11-2014, 06:29 AM	#22
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by Digitalis I would be happy with either considering they are results from the basically* same lens. You can toll the others norm, but you can't troll me. *within the allowances of manufacturing tolerances there is always some variation. I would never try and troll you... it would be a waste of time... I was hoping you didn't turn up.. Originally posted by Rondec Photozone is honest in that Klaus tests one copy of a lens. He tells you whose copy it is and if it doesn't seem to measure up (is decentered, etc) he will try to get a different copy. Obviously in this case, part of the difference is due to different copies and part is due to the difference between the K5 and K10 sensors. The difference in the FA 43 between his K10 test and K5 test is pretty astounding. I have to think he got a bad copy for the K5 test, because the border performance was abysmal. I think it's important to note that one test of one lens, is often better than no tests of the lens, but not always. Originally posted by rawr Both test results show a lens performing decently even wide open, and with good, even resolution from edge to centre. What's not to like? The issue about sample variation is a valid one though. Unfortunately not every tester has the capabilities of Roger Cicala from Lens Rentals, who can test 20 or 30 copies of the same model lens. That's unfortunate... it would almost be worth our while to start a fund to pay the Lens Rentals guys to do this type of testing. After all, who else has the lenses in the numbers they do?

10-11-2014, 08:58 AM	#23
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by luftfluss I bet that FA31 would perform wonderfully on a K-S1. Hey - good idea. If I want to use hyperfocal in M Mode for a night shot I can light up the LED's to see the lens markings.

10-11-2014, 09:09 AM	#24
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,032	What a bunch of camera nerds. Clearly, and without remorse, one would pick the graph on the left because it has more colors and is prettier!!

10-11-2014, 09:14 AM	#25
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco What a bunch of camera nerds. Clearly, and without remorse, one would pick the graph on the left because it has more colors and is prettier!! Don't laugh, two women won our NFL playoff pool, based on two criteria, How pretty the teams uniforms were, and which team's player hard superior derriere's showed off in their tight uniforms. I was on of those guys with graphs, charts and every imaginable stat going, who lost to those two. Sometimes the person who goes for the pretty colours an other shallow criteria comes out on top.

Photozone fans, which is better.

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