Performance Difference in Li-Ion vs NiMH

dcpropilot · 10-12-2014, 06:40 PM

Hi,
Just curious. The K-30 lithium D-Li109 battery is 7.4 volts, while the 4 AA battery adapter is 6 volts. Although the capacity of the NiMH is greater with the Sanyo eneloops, theoretically, would the lithium perform better (i.e. focusing, etc)?

calsan · 10-12-2014, 08:49 PM

Probably no difference in performance, only battery life- based on whichever has the most capacity in watts (or milliwatts) per hour.
I would guess the camera's circuits run at around 5v, so there would be an initial circuit to provide a voltage drop from the supply of the batteries.

delegopa · 10-13-2014, 12:34 AM

Guessing here too. Inside the supply voltage usually is converted in multiple different voltages the circuits actually need. Most common are indeed 5V as well as 3-3,3V. Some chips even work below 2V and consume less energy aswell.
Not sure about the focussing motor though. The voltage could be boosted to 12-24 V or stepped down to 5V. If it would use the supply voltage directly then the Lithium would provide higher speed. But this is unlikely.

LensBeginner · 10-13-2014, 01:16 AM

I remember a discussion somewhere a couple of years ago regarding the use of rechargeable Lithium batteries (don't do that!) on older Pentax cameras (K100D).
Manual says rechargeable NiMh, disposable Li-Ion.
Users found out that autofocus motor was snappier - no wonder - with the rechargeable lithium batteries because they peakead at a higher voltage once fully charged.
It was so snappy that it also happened to break, sometimes... :-|

Sofaking · 10-13-2014, 06:50 AM

How about using AA Ni-Zn using the AA adapter?
I have used them without issues in the K100D, but have yet to try it on the K30.
My K100D just would not run on NiMH late in its life, worked perfectly with NiZn. I sold the K100D thereafter, but did not issues with NiZn, even when using the built-in flash. Wonder if this can be extrapolated to the K30?

delegopa · 10-13-2014, 08:32 AM

Actually, I use Ni-Zn from time to time in my K30. The voltage is below that of Li-On which is a good start. As you can not choose it as batterytype in the settings there could still be issues.

Sofaking · 10-13-2014, 05:51 PM

What brand are you using? I have Powergenix. How do you set your battery type - Auto?
Thsnks

delegopa · 10-15-2014, 10:04 AM

Mine are from Conrad, which actually just relabel them. I think they are made in Poland but forgot the brand. Checked it and yes, battery type is on Auto. This will probably treat them as non-rechargeable.

formercanuck · 10-22-2014, 10:21 PM

The best AA batteries you'll get are Energizer lithium. They're not rechargeable, but last probably 4x that of NiMH, are very light and work well in cold weather. I used a pair for a 2 week vacation on my k-x with around 2000 shots.

Sofaking · 12-13-2014, 11:49 PM

I have thawed out my Powergenix NiZN AAs and used them in my K30. I can vouch that they work well with Battery type set to auto, with much snappier autofocus compared to using NiMH Eneloop XX's

---------- Post added 12-14-14 at 02:51 PM ----------

The Powergenix can also be charged with the La-crosse BC-900, with a workaround. Voltage fresh out the oven runs at about 1.85 to 1.9v, vs 1.5V for the Eneloops. In steady state, the voltage drops to 1.75V vs 1.32V for the Eneloop XX. The older Eneloops register about 1.28V on the plateau portion of the NiMH discharge curve.

drypenn · 12-14-2014, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by delegopa

Actually, I use Ni-Zn from time to time in my K30. The voltage is below that of Li-On which is a good start. As you can not choose it as batterytype in the settings there could still be issues.

I'm guessing that the only issue one will encounter in the use of Ni-Zn is that the camera may have an erroneous estimate of remaining battery life while in use. But this should be a non-issue as I find Pentax' estimate of remaining battery life a bit crude, because they're using bars instead of percentages.

10-12-2014, 06:40 PM	#1
dcpropilot Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 776	Performance Difference in Li-Ion vs NiMH Hi, Just curious. The K-30 lithium D-Li109 battery is 7.4 volts, while the 4 AA battery adapter is 6 volts. Although the capacity of the NiMH is greater with the Sanyo eneloops, theoretically, would the lithium perform better (i.e. focusing, etc)?

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10-12-2014, 08:49 PM	#2
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	Probably no difference in performance, only battery life- based on whichever has the most capacity in watts (or milliwatts) per hour. I would guess the camera's circuits run at around 5v, so there would be an initial circuit to provide a voltage drop from the supply of the batteries.

10-13-2014, 12:34 AM	#3
delegopa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 244	Guessing here too. Inside the supply voltage usually is converted in multiple different voltages the circuits actually need. Most common are indeed 5V as well as 3-3,3V. Some chips even work below 2V and consume less energy aswell. Not sure about the focussing motor though. The voltage could be boosted to 12-24 V or stepped down to 5V. If it would use the supply voltage directly then the Lithium would provide higher speed. But this is unlikely.

10-13-2014, 01:16 AM	#4
LensBeginner Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,578	I remember a discussion somewhere a couple of years ago regarding the use of rechargeable Lithium batteries (don't do that!) on older Pentax cameras (K100D). Manual says rechargeable NiMh, disposable Li-Ion. Users found out that autofocus motor was snappier - no wonder - with the rechargeable lithium batteries because they peakead at a higher voltage once fully charged. It was so snappy that it also happened to break, sometimes... :-\|

10-13-2014, 06:50 AM	#5
Sofaking New Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 22	How about using AA Ni-Zn using the AA adapter? I have used them without issues in the K100D, but have yet to try it on the K30. My K100D just would not run on NiMH late in its life, worked perfectly with NiZn. I sold the K100D thereafter, but did not issues with NiZn, even when using the built-in flash. Wonder if this can be extrapolated to the K30?

10-13-2014, 08:32 AM	#6
delegopa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 244	Actually, I use Ni-Zn from time to time in my K30. The voltage is below that of Li-On which is a good start. As you can not choose it as batterytype in the settings there could still be issues.

10-13-2014, 05:51 PM	#7
Sofaking New Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 22	What brand are you using? I have Powergenix. How do you set your battery type - Auto? Thsnks

10-15-2014, 10:04 AM	#8
delegopa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 244	Mine are from Conrad, which actually just relabel them. I think they are made in Poland but forgot the brand. Checked it and yes, battery type is on Auto. This will probably treat them as non-rechargeable.

10-22-2014, 10:21 PM	#9
formercanuck Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SoCal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 515	The best AA batteries you'll get are Energizer lithium. They're not rechargeable, but last probably 4x that of NiMH, are very light and work well in cold weather. I used a pair for a 2 week vacation on my k-x with around 2000 shots.

12-13-2014, 11:49 PM	#10
Sofaking New Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 22	I have thawed out my Powergenix NiZN AAs and used them in my K30. I can vouch that they work well with Battery type set to auto, with much snappier autofocus compared to using NiMH Eneloop XX's ---------- Post added 12-14-14 at 02:51 PM ---------- The Powergenix can also be charged with the La-crosse BC-900, with a workaround. Voltage fresh out the oven runs at about 1.85 to 1.9v, vs 1.5V for the Eneloops. In steady state, the voltage drops to 1.75V vs 1.32V for the Eneloop XX. The older Eneloops register about 1.28V on the plateau portion of the NiMH discharge curve.

12-14-2014, 08:27 PM	#11
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 960	Originally posted by delegopa Actually, I use Ni-Zn from time to time in my K30. The voltage is below that of Li-On which is a good start. As you can not choose it as batterytype in the settings there could still be issues. I'm guessing that the only issue one will encounter in the use of Ni-Zn is that the camera may have an erroneous estimate of remaining battery life while in use. But this should be a non-issue as I find Pentax' estimate of remaining battery life a bit crude, because they're using bars instead of percentages.

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