Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-19-2015, 12:19 PM - 1 Like   #61
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
It will give you a better file to work with in Photoshop though.
exactly, the less pixel moving you need to do in the post, the better your resulting image.

04-19-2015, 09:20 PM   #62
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
exactly, the less pixel moving you need to do in the post, the better your resulting image.
Yes, but the return on investment for me was too minor to be perceived. I still love the concept though. If I already owned a k3 for other reasons, sure why not shift it, but don't think I wouldn't buy one for that.

And yes, the Olympus version is doing in camera what you would do in post. I had thought it interesting in helping with framing when you are at the limits of the frame and fitting the subject in, but it seems to crop so much that it doesn't really help you out.
04-19-2015, 09:35 PM   #63
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by chiane Quote
Yes, but the return on investment for me was too minor to be perceived. I still love the concept though. If I already owned a k3 for other reasons, sure why not shift it, but don't think I wouldn't buy one for that.

And yes, the Olympus version is doing in camera what you would do in post. I had thought it interesting in helping with framing when you are at the limits of the frame and fitting the subject in, but it seems to crop so much that it doesn't really help you out.
i was actually only responding to a comment kadawaji had made, not yours, nor was i trying to convince you to change systems. Go with what works for you and be happy.
04-19-2015, 11:04 PM - 2 Likes   #64
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,997
QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
Too bad Pentax didn't give the sensor shift a little more leeway 11mm instead of the measly 8mm, it's a serious tool as we can see from these images.,
Do we actually know how much physical space the sensor is capable of moving? The sensor (K5) is 23.7 x 15.7mm in size. An 8mm displacement in either axis would be extremely large. 8mm in the X axis would be 33%, with the Y axis yielding on the order of 50%.

The old K 28mm/f3.5 Shift lens was capable of 11mm in all directions (Y, Y and X+Y). That amount of movement translates (see the shift calculator) to ~70% in the vertical and ~45% in the horizontal. Using the images of the Tokyo TV Tower - I would guess that the amount of additional space is probably a bit less than 10%. Regardless, of what the actual numbers are, or the absolute amount of the shift, the bottom line is - is it useful? Clearly it is. Its not a substitute for a shift lens, but it certainly helps, and it has a positive affect. If you know that you 1) have the tool available; and 2) a rough idea as to how much it can aid you; you can apply it for real useful purposes.

A couple of months ago, I was down at the state capital. I wanted to take some night pictures. I plopped my tripod down and mounted my camera, turned it on and went into live view. I remember putting the grid center line down the middle of the building, and thought - that wow, I should have brought the shift lens. That building is really leaning backwards - in danger of tipping over. I had not leveled camera all the way. So, I started adjusting with the geared head - axis by axis. It was a real visual learning experience, to just dial in the axis corrections by watching the Liveview as the building automagically corrected its framing, up against the Liveview's grid and h/v level indicators. The building's perspective was corrected with just adjusting the physical geometry of the camera as it related to the building. I have done this previously, just using a ballhead. But making the adjustments with a ballhead are not nearly as noticeable or as easily associated with each individual axis.

Even though the sensor's shift amount is not a large amount, as has been shown, it can have a reasonable impact on the image. Coupled with the relationship of how the camera addresses the structure (tripod, framing, alignment, etc.), it certainly is an additional tool that can be used, with out hauling around specialized lenses.
_____

There is another useful purpose for shifting the sensor. There are times when you really do not want to introduce any rotation in to a stitch. Normally, you just twist slightly to the left, take a frame, then back to the center, take a frame and then to the right. When you stitch them together, you get some geometric distortion as the images are overlaid. I do like to use the shift lens to "shift" over and grab some extra view. This is a lot more work - moving the sensor, but it you need it, it is nice to have available to you. It is not going to be a tremendous amount of additional area, but sometimes it will probably be just enough.
_____

All of this use to be painfully apparent to the folks who use/used view cameras. They have all of these adjustments available to them. The physical knobs and adjustments are sitting there right in front of them - all the time. With the advent of the brownie box camera up through the dSLR, we have lost a lot of this to varying degrees - only to rediscover it when technology puts it back into the available mix (or the photographer goes searching it out to re-acquire it, i.e., buying a tilt/shift lens, or getting a set of bellows).



04-20-2015, 07:49 AM   #65
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Do we actually know how much physical space the sensor is capable of moving? The sensor (K5) is 23.7 x 15.7mm in size. An 8mm displacement in either axis would be extremely large. 8mm in the X axis would be 33%, with the Y axis yielding on the order of 50%.

The old K 28mm/f3.5 Shift lens was capable of 11mm in all directions (Y, Y and X+Y). That amount of movement translates (see the shift calculator) to ~70% in the vertical and ~45% in the horizontal. Using the images of the Tokyo TV Tower - I would guess that the amount of additional space is probably a bit less than 10%. Regardless, of what the actual numbers are, or the absolute amount of the shift, the bottom line is - is it useful? Clearly it is. Its not a substitute for a shift lens, but it certainly helps, and it has a positive affect. If you know that you 1) have the tool available; and 2) a rough idea as to how much it can aid you; you can apply it for real useful purposes.

A couple of months ago, I was down at the state capital. I wanted to take some night pictures. I plopped my tripod down and mounted my camera, turned it on and went into live view. I remember putting the grid center line down the middle of the building, and thought - that wow, I should have brought the shift lens. That building is really leaning backwards - in danger of tipping over. I had not leveled camera all the way. So, I started adjusting with the geared head - axis by axis. It was a real visual learning experience, to just dial in the axis corrections by watching the Liveview as the building automagically corrected its framing, up against the Liveview's grid and h/v level indicators. The building's perspective was corrected with just adjusting the physical geometry of the camera as it related to the building. I have done this previously, just using a ballhead. But making the adjustments with a ballhead are not nearly as noticeable or as easily associated with each individual axis.

Even though the sensor's shift amount is not a large amount, as has been shown, it can have a reasonable impact on the image. Coupled with the relationship of how the camera addresses the structure (tripod, framing, alignment, etc.), it certainly is an additional tool that can be used, with out hauling around specialized lenses.
_____

There is another useful purpose for shifting the sensor. There are times when you really do not want to introduce any rotation in to a stitch. Normally, you just twist slightly to the left, take a frame, then back to the center, take a frame and then to the right. When you stitch them together, you get some geometric distortion as the images are overlaid. I do like to use the shift lens to "shift" over and grab some extra view. This is a lot more work - moving the sensor, but it you need it, it is nice to have available to you. It is not going to be a tremendous amount of additional area, but sometimes it will probably be just enough.
_____

All of this use to be painfully apparent to the folks who use/used view cameras. They have all of these adjustments available to them. The physical knobs and adjustments are sitting there right in front of them - all the time. With the advent of the brownie box camera up through the dSLR, we have lost a lot of this to varying degrees - only to rediscover it when technology puts it back into the available mix (or the photographer goes searching it out to re-acquire it, i.e., buying a tilt/shift lens, or getting a set of bellows).

nice post.thanks.
04-21-2015, 09:11 AM   #66
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
i was actually only responding to a comment kadawaji had made, not yours, nor was i trying to convince you to change systems. Go with what works for you and be happy.
No, I didn't think you were, just saying. BTW, thanks for all your examples and work in this thread. Good stuff.
04-21-2015, 09:55 AM   #67
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by chiane Quote
No, I didn't think you were, just saying. BTW, thanks for all your examples and work in this thread. Good stuff.
oh, my mistake.
05-23-2015, 12:30 PM   #68
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
here's another example of some sensor shift correction in camera.

http://makeagif.com/i/LkdPNz

05-23-2015, 01:51 PM   #69
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,997
QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
here's another example of some sensor shift correction in camera.

LkdPNz.gif (1024x678)
That is a very effective demonstration. It's not a lot of shift, but effectively applied. Actually, it's a much better demonstration than what Adam has in the shift demo on the Forum. This would be very effective for interiors, real estate applications (both interior and exterior shots). The shift capability diminishes as the focal length get longer. I am somewhat wondering where the "knee" is here - what focal length this is effective up to. I'll guess that its somewhere between 35 and 50mm.

I need to get out and shoot more.


Last edited by interested_observer; 05-23-2015 at 11:12 PM.
05-23-2015, 09:51 PM   #70
Pentaxian
mikeSF's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,519
Original Poster
here's another example:
tdGyTL.gif (1024x678)
05-23-2015, 11:36 PM   #71
Loyal Site Supporter
rayallen's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Forresters Beach, Central Coast, NSW, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,507
QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
here's another example:
tdGyTL.gif (1024x678)
That's a good example, Mike. Not too extreme and that is when it really works well IMHO.
06-11-2015, 04:17 PM   #72
Pentaxian
mcgregni's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 1,493
Certainly on the K7/K5 models the feature is a little buried within the recording menu ... It's one of those odd items that I always seem to not see and miss every time I go into the menu ... Another one is LCD brightness (anyone else find that too?😒&#128522.



It would benefit from being brought onto the control panel really. Thanks for highlighting it and demonstrating...a great idea!
06-11-2015, 11:52 PM   #73
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,609
QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Certainly on the K7/K5 models the feature is a little buried within the recording menu ... It's one of those odd items that I always seem to not see and miss every time I go into the menu ... Another one is LCD brightness (anyone else find that too?😒&#128522.



It would benefit from being brought onto the control panel really. Thanks for highlighting it and demonstrating...a great idea!
You can put it on the Fx button.
06-12-2015, 02:25 PM   #74
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
You can put it on the Fx button.
I can't find such an option in K-3. I can't figure any other way of changing the adjustment than switching LV off and on again. I find this annoying and would be grateful if someone taught me to do it smarter way.
06-12-2015, 03:37 PM   #75
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,609
Go to the menu option where you can select what the raw/fx button will do. It isn't perfect, but better than nothing. Not sure if it works on the K-3 though. K-5 yes.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, composition, correction, dslr, feature, frame, photography, sensor, sensor shift composition, shift, verticals
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-3 & Live View asking for composition adjustment tabl10s Pentax K-3 2 06-21-2014 04:23 AM
What video program are you using for Q movies? barondla Pentax Q 6 12-04-2013 01:13 PM
composition adjustment? ChopperCharles Pentax K-30 & K-50 5 10-22-2013 03:08 PM
Are you really using all of the lenses you own? drabina Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 97 06-15-2010 01:01 PM
K7 composition adjustment = slight shift effect? ricardobeat Pentax News and Rumors 23 05-25-2009 01:03 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:00 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top