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View Poll Results: If I could do it all again, I'd (still) go for:
Pentax! 8875.86%
Canon 86.90%
Nikon 1815.52%
Sony 21.72%
Other   00%
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10-26-2014, 01:19 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
First a question for you? Have you try some other system for at least two weeks?
I agree that Pentax have really nice cameras (like K3, also K5II and K50) but system is is not at level of K3 body (semi professional level). First of all there is no technical support for (semi)professionals. Quality control is bad, high end lenses (16-50, 50-135, 60-250) are slow focusing and with high failure rating. Pentax really need to do fast and reliable AF motor for lenses (something that Canikon has for decades). If you try an old Canon 7D or Nikon D300s and their 70-200 lenses you will notice that the speed is from another world against Pentax 50-135 or 60-250.
If you ask me Pentax need to do new line of 16-50, 50-135 and 60-250 with new motors, new 12-24 (with AF motor and WR), fast wide angle prime (like 23mm f2), new 17-70 f4 WR lens for K3 kit lense and long zoom that reach 400mm. Camera like K3 deserve good, fast AF and reliable lens system. Without that K3 is just another entry level camera that compete with a lot cheaper plastic fantastic entry level Canikon cameras.
Well i think you have some good points there.. with that on the table.. we are facing another question. what could be better.. to trust a new Pentax FF with new glass?? or simple moving to another system ( if somebody think that needs more than what pentax is offering now)? .. cuz actually both answers will practically mean moving to new systems doesnt matter if is Pentax or something else..

10-26-2014, 02:29 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Well i think you have some good points there.. with that on the table.. we are facing another question. what could be better.. to trust a new Pentax FF with new glass?? or simple moving to another system ( if somebody think that needs more than what pentax is offering now)? .. cuz actually both answers will practically mean moving to new systems doesnt matter if is Pentax or something else..
Kooks, you know a lot of Pentax glass is already full-frame, right?

The mount has always been.
10-26-2014, 04:20 AM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The SDM motors don't fail any more.
I'm guessing that is not 100% true. It can be said however that the IS/VR in pentax K-mount lenses never fails!
10-26-2014, 04:27 AM   #79
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Thats correct @Clackers not all the glass but several (the most expensive haha), actually even the Sigma Art series is already FF (most).. but for me most of the glass that i have is for cropped, so IF someday Pentax give us a FF it will mean changing most of the glass that i own .. so it is something to take in consideration.. will a Pentax FF be at the same level as other FF cameras, for example a D810 or 5D MK3 ( just to name a couple) ?? .. I really hope that it will be, but how many years pentaxias will need to wait for it?? each day that passes by somebody is switching from APS-C to FF or is getting straight a FF system and sadly Pentax is still out of that game...

10-26-2014, 04:35 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
First a question for you? Have you try some other system for at least two weeks?
I agree that Pentax have really nice cameras (like K3, also K5II and K50) but system is is not at level of K3 body (semi professional level). First of all there is no technical support for (semi)professionals. Quality control is bad, high end lenses (16-50, 50-135, 60-250) are slow focusing and with high failure rating. Pentax really need to do fast and reliable AF motor for lenses (something that Canikon has for decades). If you try an old Canon 7D or Nikon D300s and their 70-200 lenses you will notice that the speed is from another world against Pentax 50-135 or 60-250.
If you ask me Pentax need to do new line of 16-50, 50-135 and 60-250 with new motors, new 12-24 (with AF motor and WR), fast wide angle prime (like 23mm f2), new 17-70 f4 WR lens for K3 kit lense and long zoom that reach 400mm. Camera like K3 deserve good, fast AF and reliable lens system. Without that K3 is just another entry level camera that compete with a lot cheaper plastic fantastic entry level Canikon cameras.
It is certainly true that the pro technical support is a consideration. Of course it doesn't help you during a shoot, just for having a lens in time for the next one.
Of course With Pentax Da* lenses going for about 60% of the cost of FF pro lenses like Nikon 2.8 zooms, you could actually afford to have backup lenses for essentially the same price if you wanted too. Of course with Pentax in makes sense to get Limited primes covering your bases instead. I would happy to see the DA* lenses get an upgrade to HD and better AF motors. Apparently something is on the cards. While there certainly was a problem with the early SDM lenses there is the major benefit of not having lens stabilisation, a major lens repair problem.

---------- Post added 10-26-2014 at 10:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Thats correct @Clackers not all the glass but several (the most expensive haha), actually even the Sigma Art series is already FF (most).. but for me most of the glass that i have is for cropped, so IF someday Pentax give us a FF it will mean changing most of the glass that i own .. so it is something to take in consideration.. will a Pentax FF be at the same level as other FF cameras, for example a D810 or 5D MK3 ( just to name a couple) ?? .. I really hope that it will be, but how many years pentaxias will need to wait for it?? each day that passes by somebody is switching from APS-C to FF or is getting straight a FF system and sadly Pentax is still out of that game...
Now that FF sensors are affordable they just need to release an IBIS FF with K-3 level features at $2-2.5 thousand. Remember it cost justs as much to develop a Top end DSLR as it does to develop essentially a crippled one, so why not just make a fully functional one at a decent price and stuff up the competitions profit margins. Especially if you are in the black while everyone else is bleeding at the moment. Pentax will need the zooms to go with it though. But they would be better off targeting premium customers with top level glass than trying to convince every tom dick and harry that a FF camera with make them pro photographers with a lousy kit lens attached.
10-26-2014, 06:54 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
First a question for you? Have you try some other system for at least two weeks?
I agree that Pentax have really nice cameras (like K3, also K5II and K50) but system is is not at level of K3 body (semi professional level). First of all there is no technical support for (semi)professionals. Quality control is bad, high end lenses (16-50, 50-135, 60-250) are slow focusing and with high failure rating. Pentax really need to do fast and reliable AF motor for lenses (something that Canikon has for decades). If you try an old Canon 7D or Nikon D300s and their 70-200 lenses you will notice that the speed is from another world against Pentax 50-135 or 60-250.
If you ask me Pentax need to do new line of 16-50, 50-135 and 60-250 with new motors, new 12-24 (with AF motor and WR), fast wide angle prime (like 23mm f2), new 17-70 f4 WR lens for K3 kit lense and long zoom that reach 400mm. Camera like K3 deserve good, fast AF and reliable lens system. Without that K3 is just another entry level camera that compete with a lot cheaper plastic fantastic entry level Canikon cameras.
You can clear up a lot of ignorance by doing a bit of research.
First every tester seem to come up with different stats, and I'm not going to repeat all of them... but for the K-5 series, other camera companies produced faster focusing rates, but Pentax had the best accuracy. \Pop photo suggested the K-3 was better than the D7100 in terms of faster focus, but slightly worse at tracking so pretty much a tie.
Those are tidbits. I call them tidbits, because they are single source probably single body and les tests.

More reliable are the people over at Lens Rentals who see hundred of lenses go in and out.
Pentax has the lowest frequency of repair among all the major manufacturers, even with SDM lenses factored in.

On a personal note, I've seen a Canon long lens fall apart in the field after a relatively minor drop, like less than 8 inches. I've dropped a number of my Pentax lenses further, without even knocking them out of alignment.

So, I read stuff like the above, and I wonder, where is this guy getting his information from?

So that's my question, dfujevec?

You've managed to run off a bunch of completely anti Pentax marketing type propaganda without naming even a single source. part of the problem with that is, you're just flat out wrong on many issues, which would suggest you don't really know Pentax at all, and the other part of that is, while we know there is fast focusing glass from Canon, not all Canon glass on all camera models is faster focusing than all Pentax glass.

So you tell us Canon has faster focusing glass, but you don't tell us what we'd have to pay to get it. My DA*60-250 on FF, what in the Canikon world do I have to pay to get faster focusing glass and the equivalent focus length in a pro quality lens, and what it the cost of the body it runs on.

Since many pros already use APS-c, obviously any of those pros could use a Pentax FF, if it had the typical Pentax build, ergonomics, WR and compact size.

Your statement about pros using FF, that's been discussed so many times, and the simple answer is pros use the system that does what they need best. That may or may not be FF. You can always find lots of examples of pros using APS-c or even 4/3 for some or all of their images. Having attempted to research this , I can't find any site or information that can substantiate this oft made claim. So if you have something I'd like to know.

Not saying you are, but you sound like someone who's bought the Cannikon FF cool aid. But without some kind of authoritative posts that give us some kind of hint as to why you make these statements, it would be easy to assume you are.

Last edited by normhead; 10-26-2014 at 07:02 AM.
10-26-2014, 11:22 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Thats correct @Clackers not all the glass but several (the most expensive haha),
Kooks, do you have two of the cheapest and most common modern primes? The DA35 and DA50 are both FF.
10-26-2014, 10:35 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Kooks, do you have two of the cheapest and most common modern primes? The DA35 and DA50 are both FF.
No i dont.. i dont have a FF in order to use them so at THIS time, is not really smart for me to by a FF lens ( Pentax FF ) if im not sure when the company is going to release a FF.. whenever that happens i will take the consideration of still trusting the Pentax system ( wich so far i do with my K3 and APS-C glass ) or looking something else.... and when ever that happens ofcourse i will try to get the glass that fits my needs. Most ot the time i shoot the the DA 10-17 ( wich sadly is not FF ), rarly i use a telephoto so i have a cheap Sigma ( just in case that i need it, but i cant remember when was the last time that i used it ).. and i have a Sigma Art 30mm F1.4. ( almost exacly the same as the 35mm but the 30mm is not FF so it cost half price), and for regular use i have a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 wich is not FF and based on the Pentax vs Sigma vs Tamron chart is not a bad lens at all and in my case the quality is really nice.. So no.. i havent use any FF lens cuz to be honest i dont have a Pentax FF camera to use them...... yet.


Last edited by kooks; 10-27-2014 at 12:19 AM.
10-26-2014, 10:48 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You can clear up a lot of ignorance by doing a bit of research.
First every tester seem to come up with different stats, and I'm not going to repeat all of them... but for the K-5 series, other camera companies produced faster focusing rates, but Pentax had the best accuracy. \Pop photo suggested the K-3 was better than the D7100 in terms of faster focus, but slightly worse at tracking so pretty much a tie.
Those are tidbits. I call them tidbits, because they are single source probably single body and les tests.

More reliable are the people over at Lens Rentals who see hundred of lenses go in and out.
Pentax has the lowest frequency of repair among all the major manufacturers, even with SDM lenses factored in.

On a personal note, I've seen a Canon long lens fall apart in the field after a relatively minor drop, like less than 8 inches. I've dropped a number of my Pentax lenses further, without even knocking them out of alignment.

So, I read stuff like the above, and I wonder, where is this guy getting his information from?

So that's my question, dfujevec?

You've managed to run off a bunch of completely anti Pentax marketing type propaganda without naming even a single source. part of the problem with that is, you're just flat out wrong on many issues, which would suggest you don't really know Pentax at all, and the other part of that is, while we know there is fast focusing glass from Canon, not all Canon glass on all camera models is faster focusing than all Pentax glass.

So you tell us Canon has faster focusing glass, but you don't tell us what we'd have to pay to get it. My DA*60-250 on FF, what in the Canikon world do I have to pay to get faster focusing glass and the equivalent focus length in a pro quality lens, and what it the cost of the body it runs on.

Since many pros already use APS-c, obviously any of those pros could use a Pentax FF, if it had the typical Pentax build, ergonomics, WR and compact size.

Your statement about pros using FF, that's been discussed so many times, and the simple answer is pros use the system that does what they need best. That may or may not be FF. You can always find lots of examples of pros using APS-c or even 4/3 for some or all of their images. Having attempted to research this , I can't find any site or information that can substantiate this oft made claim. So if you have something I'd like to know.

Not saying you are, but you sound like someone who's bought the Cannikon FF cool aid. But without some kind of authoritative posts that give us some kind of hint as to why you make these statements, it would be easy to assume you are.
First of all I was Pentax user for 10 years, now I am Canon user for three years. I stil have Pentax K20d wich I use time to time, and last year I bought K30 wich I returned after 6 days because AF with my three AF lenses did not work as it should. Then I decided that there was enough Pentax for a while and I bought mirrorless camera.
Many questions and points to answer you.
Speed of Pentax AF. I don't know what lenses were guys using, but if you compare 50-135 (and 60-250 is not faster) with any Canon or Nikon body made in last six years and any on of their 70-200 (f2,8 or f4) lens there's big difference in speed and also in accuracy. Pentax have some screw drive AF lenses that they are fast, but that is technology that is 20 years old and not really in line with today standard how should AF work.
About SDM failure we all know how it is. I did not had any problem on my own because I was using mostly Tamron screw drive and Sigma HSM lenses that are faster and more reliable than Pentax SDM lenses. I know quite few guys in our country that they suffered SDM failure and another few that have screw drive SDM lenses. There is a lot writen all over the world about this problem and there is not lot to say about this.
Many people sitl use APS-C and there is nothing wrong with that. I use FF camera, but I know what are weaknes and strog points od FF and APS-C. I know that both formats are good for profesional work. Canon and Nikon are more FF oriented and there is not a lot of space for pro oriented APS-C camera in Canikon. And here is space for Pentax, but not with curent lens line up and customer pro servise like that. If you put in shop K3 (wich is very good camera) with 18-55 or 18-135 lens you made just another entry level package. There is not much diference from let say Nikon D5300 with 18-105 and K3 with 18-135. Pentax K3 should compete with D750 and D810 or 5DmkIII so first of all you should put on 16-50 f2,8 or 17-70 f4 (both with WR and AF speed of Canikon).

Last edited by dfujevec; 10-27-2014 at 08:40 AM.
10-26-2014, 10:48 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
So no.. i havent use any FF lens cuz to be honest i dont have a Pentax FF camera to use them...... yet.
Can I borrow some of your confused emoticons, Kooks?

The FF Pentax lenses work on your APS-C camera ... all of them.

In fact, on FF the corners might be darker and the edges may not be as sharp.

Last edited by clackers; 10-27-2014 at 12:20 AM.
10-27-2014, 01:03 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Can I borrow some of your confused emoticons, Kooks?

The FF Pentax lenses work on your APS-C camera ... all of them.
Ofcourse u can take them from the right...

But anyways, i think i didnt express myself well.. what i really meant was that at THIS TIME i havent been worry about getting FF compatible lenses because 1- I dont have a FF body to really use them so APS-C lenses works for me.. and 2- the FF compatible lenses available are not really what I use most of the time.. So, as i said before, to ME, switching to a FF camera means to change my entire system, doesnt matter if is Pentax or any other brand..

Last edited by kooks; 11-01-2014 at 12:37 PM.
11-01-2014, 09:55 AM   #87
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My stock of DA 40, DFA 100,F*300,Sigma 70,Tamron 90 already FF and APSC so I'm good unless I need an excuse for FF hahaha
11-02-2014, 12:22 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
First of all I was Pentax user for 10 years, now I am Canon user for three years. I stil have Pentax K20d wich I use time to time, and last year I bought K30 wich I returned after 6 days because AF with my three AF lenses did not work as it should. Then I decided that there was enough Pentax for a while and I bought mirrorless camera.
Many questions and points to answer you.
Speed of Pentax AF. I don't know what lenses were guys using, but if you compare 50-135 (and 60-250 is not faster) with any Canon or Nikon body made in last six years and any on of their 70-200 (f2,8 or f4) lens there's big difference in speed and also in accuracy. Pentax have some screw drive AF lenses that they are fast, but that is technology that is 20 years old and not really in line with today standard how should AF work.
About SDM failure we all know how it is. I did not had any problem on my own because I was using mostly Tamron screw drive and Sigma HSM lenses that are faster and more reliable than Pentax SDM lenses. I know quite few guys in our country that they suffered SDM failure and another few that have screw drive SDM lenses. There is a lot writen all over the world about this problem and there is not lot to say about this.
Many people sitl use APS-C and there is nothing wrong with that. I use FF camera, but I know what are weaknes and strog points od FF and APS-C. I know that both formats are good for profesional work. Canon and Nikon are more FF oriented and there is not a lot of space for pro oriented APS-C camera in Canikon. And here is space for Pentax, but not with curent lens line up and customer pro servise like that. If you put in shop K3 (wich is very good camera) with 18-55 or 18-135 lens you made just another entry level package. There is not much diference from let say Nikon D5300 with 18-105 and K3 with 18-135. Pentax K3 should compete with D750 and D810 or 5DmkIII so first of all you should put on 16-50 f2,8 or 17-70 f4 (both with WR and AF speed of Canikon).
Give it a rest. All camera manufacturers have had their dismal failures. You yourself reported you had no failures with SDM lenses. I started buying SDM lenses in 2009, and have 2 of the worst repaired lenses, the 17-70 and the 50-135, and both have provided me with stellar service with no repairs, including my sdm DA 300.

Sigma's HSM system had some early failures with the bearings in its focus motors. At this rental repair site, they have more evidence about failures which is worth far more than all the annecdotal information everywhere else.

LensRentals.com - Lensrentals Repair Data: 2012-2013

They report that the Nikon D800 is the most repaired camera they have, having only 65 weeks to failure - mostly due to autofocus.
Canon has 4 lenses on the worst repaired lens list, none of these 4 last more than 1 year before failure. 3 of these were 70-200 type lenses. These are large sample sizes, they don't list lenses of which they have fewer than 10 copies.

Nikon is singular in having their D600 banned from import to Russia. And 2 class action suits filed with regard to the D600. Not trying to pick on any one company - but one could pick any of these companies to complain about.

Its real valid statistics that count and very few folks have access to them. Nuff said. Lacking that, any potential customer needs to make their own subjective decisions, as tough as that is.

Last edited by philbaum; 11-02-2014 at 12:42 AM.
11-02-2014, 09:00 AM   #89
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I agree with your conclusions, philbaum. I'll point out though that Lensrentals ignores Pentax due to small sample size. So.... it's basically Nikon, Canon, Sony, and third party lenses.
11-02-2014, 09:15 AM   #90
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Frankly speaking, If I am a pro, I will choose Nikon D810, Zeiss 135 F2/Zeiss 100 F2/Otus 85 1.4 et al. Of course, I am not a pro and I cannot buy so much expensive lenses, so I will not jump into Canikon!
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