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05-27-2008, 03:27 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandpipe Quote
With the new Pentax rebate the price for the k20d is now under $1000USA via Amazon. The rebate is good till July 30 if I recall correctly. So how much lower can it go in the next 60 days? And of course $100 extra off a 16-45 or 16-50 zoom will be too much for me to resist!
Jeez... oh, the temptation... And here I have a guy saying he sure likes my K10D... Lessee it just wouldn't be right to put a new 55-300 on an old and decrepit K10D, would it???

This forum is BAD. It leads me into spending entirely too much money... all I need to do now is talk myself into believing I'll take better pictures with a K20d than I can take with a K10d.

That's the hard part... at least, if I'm honest with myself it is...

...wait a minute... is this the rebate for students in photography courses/programs? I don't qualify for that one...

05-27-2008, 06:38 PM   #32
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rick Quote
A more accurate description, then, would be "your erroneous interpretation of the law".

Can you point me towards ANY state or federal code that says something to the effect that "any publication depicting or relating to an act which is a criminal offence is itself illegal"? You can't because it doesn't exist. So maybe a more appropriate question might be: "What is the source of your belief that if an activity is illegal, then any printed or electronic media relating to that activity is also illegal".

I might have a bit of an unfair advantage because most of my life outside of the military was spent in law enforcement and I do have a degree in criminology, so I have more than than a passing acquaintance with the law. However, that isn't even required: what you are asserting simply fails the test of simple logic. If these magazines are illegal because the acts they depict are illegal, what about all the other similar media out there that also depicts and glorifies acts which are also illegal? How come all those books, videos, magazines, etc aren't illegal? After all, isn't murder a lot more serious than cockfighting?

We'll have to disagree on that one. The HSUS heavily plays on everyone's emotions, and saying "we don't like this" isn't nearly as effective as saying "this books are illegal".

Yes, I do know - these magazines aren't illegal, no more than other publications that depict other criminal offences are illegal. Please don't tell me you actually think the HSUS was too shy to try and attempt to get criminal charges laid.

Other than that, I have a hard time believing that any state makes so much money of of these little niche magazines that they're worried about offending them. C'mon Brit - what do you think the circulation of those magazines is to begin with? And if they're published in New Mexico or whatever, just how much money does the state of... Oregon for example, make off a magazine published in another state. Think about it. Hell, the publicity alone of prosecuting one of these magazines would be a gold mine for some state's attorney with political aspirations.

I'd find it interesting if you could give me one example where that has happened. Particularly when the legal test on the one hand is the balance of probabilities and on the other it is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you could tell me what refereed journal you read that in, I'd certainly like to have a look at it for myself.

It is a statement of fact. The HSUS can't get ANY state to lay criminal charges against these magazine publishers. Not one. Do you really believe that every single state is in collusion with these tiny, nasty little magazines? That simply isn't logical.

So on the one hand the HSUS screams these magazines are illegal. But meanwhile, they aren't in criminal court - oh no, they're out shopping for a sympathetic judge in civil court. And they use the excuse that "child pornography is illegal" - conveniently glossing over the fact that very, very few forms of pornography aren't found to be protected by the Bill of Rights, and are perfectly legal to sell and possess. If they had one single honest bone in their organization, what they would say is "these acts are so abhorrent they aren't entitled to the protection of the second amendment - just like child pornography". Which is a very different situation altogether than claiming that if something is illegal, then publications showing or glorifying that crime are also illegal.

That's why they're cherrypicking - and far less than honest or moral.

Really? Just where do you live where murder or grand theft auto are legal?

It comes down to the fact that your belief that if cock fighting is illegal, than magazines relating to that crime are also illegal, simply fails any test of logic. You can publish media relating to murder, car theft, whatever, and it is perfectly legal. Why is cock fighting - a much lesser crime - an exception?

I have to get back to work. However, I was looking forward to your answer on whether you think Amazon should be forced to remove only the material that you find objectionable, or if that forced removal should be extended to every single thing that some lobby/pressure group wants removed because they find it to be offensive/illegal in their opinion/whatever. I was kind of interested in seeing your answer to that one.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, we are all entitled to our opinions. Ultimately some court is going to decide on this issue, not us.
05-27-2008, 08:48 PM   #33
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Where I live, apology to illegal drugs, nazism or cruel violence is a crime. To me it doesn't make sense being able to publicize something criminal... discussion is welcome, but no propaganda.
05-27-2008, 09:28 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rick Quote
........This forum is BAD. It leads me into spending entirely too much money... all I need to do now is talk myself into believing I'll take better pictures with a K20d than I can take with a K10d.

That's the hard part... at least, if I'm honest with myself it is...

...wait a minute... is this the rebate for students in photography courses/programs? I don't qualify for that one...
It is not the student rebate. Check out the pentax.com website for the details-- if you dare-- you'll probably end up spending a lot more than you originally thought you would! I know I will, asap.

It's definitely time for me to trade up from my Samsung GX1s (Pentax k110d equivelant).

58 days and counting.

05-28-2008, 07:49 AM   #35
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Just rechecking rebate form-- only good un U.S. and ends July 26, 2008 (not July 30 as previously stated).
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