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11-01-2014, 10:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by atiratha Quote
Thanks, I'm impressed by your macros!
Ah, Thanks, too :-)

11-01-2014, 06:05 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the a7r is way beyond anything that you've ever used before, and again, the raw file issue that you are fixated on simply isn't a factor: Sony A7R teams up with Canon glass
The problem with A7x familly is they are good only to mount lenses from other vendors and to use focus peaking.

Sony lense offering is terrible. Slow, expensive, big, under corrected (vigneting, distorsion) relying on the JPEG engine to hide it... Even through they put the Zeiss brand on it.

For an FF that has some good lenses in the catalog, Canon or Nikon are serious. Sony A7 familly is just a geek toy.
11-01-2014, 06:54 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The problem with A7x familly is they are good only to mount lenses from other vendors and to use focus peaking.

Sony lense offering is terrible. Slow, expensive, big, under corrected (vigneting, distorsion) relying on the JPEG engine to hide it... Even through they put the Zeiss brand on it.

For an FF that has some good lenses in the catalog, Canon or Nikon are serious. Sony A7 familly is just a geek toy.
Agree and so far their 55mm are the only standout one apart from the rest hence they have to use our lens hehehe
11-01-2014, 08:54 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The problem with A7x familly is they are good only to mount lenses from other vendors and to use focus peaking.

Sony lense offering is terrible. Slow, expensive, big, under corrected (vigneting, distorsion) relying on the JPEG engine to hide it... Even through they put the Zeiss brand on it.

For an FF that has some good lenses in the catalog, Canon or Nikon are serious. Sony A7 familly is just a geek toy.
sony has been sucking wind as far as zooms go, that's for sure... people are hanging their hopes on this new 16-35/4, but i am skeptical.

sony fe primes, on the other hand, can be world-class... the fe55 in particular mops the floor with any prime that pentax has ever made, and it's lighter to boot.

here it is at #19 on this list of over 7,000 lenses: Camera Lens Ratings by DxOMark - DxOMark

---------- Post added 11-01-2014 at 09:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by simon6z Quote
Agree and so far their 55mm are the only standout one apart from the rest hence they have to use our lens hehehe
what's that saying about people in glass houses?

notice how the best zoom for pentax isn't a pentax at all, it's a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC HSM, by a large margin:

Best zoom lenses for the Pentax K-3 - DxOMark

11-01-2014, 11:35 PM   #20
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Pentax was never about zoom but their small design n interesting colours, u say sigma but I keep hearing and saw reports about front or back focusing problems lol
11-02-2014, 05:01 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
what's that saying about people in glass houses?

notice how the best zoom for pentax isn't a pentax at all, it's a Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC HSM, by a large margin:

Best zoom lenses for the Pentax K-3 - DxOMark
Ask Pentax forum for the best lenses of all times and they say DA15 & FA77 It happen I have thoses 2 ! While the sigma is good I exchange it anyday with an FA31. We can do it if you want, I buy you a sigma 17-50... The best lens available come on!!!! And you give me one of thoses FA31

Fact is DxO is primitive in its way to analyse lenses. It compound widest apperture support with maximum sharpness. While having some level of sharpness is important, past this level, other characteristics that are not that often well checked by charts and reviews are really important:
- bokeh quality
- capacity to make the subject to pop.
- subtle rendering of color tones.
- flare resistence.

The DA15 simply manage to get you nice colors when other have flare artefact, loss of contrast and burned highlights.
FA77 has fantastic bokeh, very very good colors rendering and an ability to make the subject pop much more than most lenses available out there ! Ask many here, even for guys that tested thousand high end lens for all brands, this little FA77 manage to do better... Thoses FA ltd are really really good. And they are 3. No wonder why Leica ask pentax to make the FA43 for their mount !

And ironically, theses 2 lenses are quite small !

Lastly even through I'am not especially after very wide apperture, as we have already seen there ONE, not two, no ONE fast prime lense available a 55mm f/1.8... Because I mean this is the focal lens where everybody has a f/1.4, even Pentax but Sony provide f/1.8... And that's all. But ok, why not this one. So now where is the 85mm f/1.8, or 35mm f/2 ? A 24 mm prime ? Some long tele ?

Nothing, nada... This A7 echossytem is not serious. Getting APSC deph of field and low light capabilities out of a FF sensor due to lack of lenses is not really something to be proud of!

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-02-2014 at 05:11 AM.
11-02-2014, 11:29 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Ask Pentax forum for the best lenses of all times and they say DA15 & FA77 It happen I have thoses 2 ! While the sigma is good I exchange it anyday with an FA31.
fa31 is irrelevant to the point that was made, which was, pentax zooms are weak sauce... you have to go 3rd party to get the best zoom for pentax cameras.

try to stay on topic.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Fact is DxO is primitive in its way to analyse lenses. It compound widest apperture support with maximum sharpness.
no, dxo measures at all apertures, as well as actual light transmission, vignetting, and distortion... in other words, the very most important things for pq.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Lastly even through I'am not especially after very wide apperture, as we have already seen there ONE, not two, no ONE fast prime lense available a 55mm f/1.8... Because I mean this is the focal lens where everybody has a f/1.4, even Pentax but Sony provide f/1.8... And that's all. But ok, why not this one. So now where is the 85mm f/1.8, or 35mm f/2 ? A 24 mm prime ? Some long tele ?
wrong again... nex system can mount ALL lenses that have ever been made, pentax is totally limited on what lenses are available.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Nothing, nada... This A7 echossytem is not serious. Getting APSC deph of field and low light capabilities out of a FF sensor due to lack of lenses is not really something to be proud of!
ff emount can run aps-c mode, for the same dof as pentax, but why bother shooting with a crippled crop sensor? the iso performance with crop sensors sucks, period.

pentax does NOT make the best lenses in the world, lol... every lens manufacturer makes a couple of exceptional lenses, nex users can pick and choose from all lenses in the world.

pentax lens choices are extremely limited, because it's locked into only one or two lens mounts... pentax kmount is a dead-end platform.

now lets compare pentax 24mp crop vs. sony 24mp crop... your precious da15 has really lousy resolution numbers, and even the best pentax 50mm macro can't match the resolution numbers of the sony 24mm prime:
Attached Images
 
11-02-2014, 01:26 PM   #23
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I mean that always what I wanted, a small camera with an adapter that remove AF support from my lens and also reduce optical quality because of the adapter. So I can spend my days on Pentax Forum explaining to the guys using Pentax gear how lame they are and how they must be SOOOOO dumb to have voted for DA15 & FA77 as best lenses. They must kind of brain limited I suppose. Look at DA15 specs. f/4, superb center shapness (oups forget that), and weak weak borders... You need to stop down to f/200 to have them sharp haha... errh, they use f/8 just fine mainly because they want the whole scene to be in focus you know, they close down more for the starbust man, not for the borders, you should at least to play with the lens 1 hours or 2 before saying garbage.... Erh let continue...

And you come here, to save the world of photographers, save the world of Pentax users to show them the light (of fast lenses and Sony FF mirorless bodies). There are lenses that bring more light to your sensors, faster than f/4... No??? But I have an A7r, I mean there only one f/1.8 lens, one f/2.8 lense and slow f/4 zoom... That a pity.

Silence !!!!

There are f/1.4 wide angle even !!! That wonderfull because man, on this A7... There no one lense that does it anyway.... That's true but if you did listen you would have understood already !!! Stupid noob !!!

You can buy an expensive lens. The f/1.4 type you know. Something big, something huge with lot of glass surface and lot of flare but that will win all charts. Mounted on your A7 it will look like a yorkshire trying to mount a dauberman! So pretty.

The lense, it can be even an APSC lense. We don't care. What count is that you can buy an adapter for it (so it loose a little in term of optical quality and autofocus at the same time) and mount it on one of the A7 familly member; I mean if you choose the A7s the good thing is even if the lens is not sharp you'll never see the difference because the resolution is so low. But the best if when you try an APSC lens on A7r. You almost achieve old K5 or Nex 3 resolution !!! That insane !!!!

And then you can go out taking pictures, with your expensive fast lens. You can stop it down to f/8-f/11 maybe even f/16 if it is an FF lens... And you can take your landscape my soon. And the borders performance will be of heaven my soon !!!! Really ? Yes !!! Of heaven.

... I mean not on the border that now look slightly decentered due to the additionnal play that come with the adapter. No, not this one. Neither on the border where you have lost all contrast due to flare from the sun or from city light for a night landscape. No... See I mean there: look there a small corner part of your photo that is just perfect. I think it has 3000 lw/pl. Oh my god !!!! An extreme corner ! 3000 lw/lp. I must be on paradise.

Wait wait? You used a tripod? What I will do of you??? You are really a noob. Tripods are evil. They can make shoots with compact camera better than of a medium frame if used right. You should avoid them and prevent anybody you know to even try one. I mean when you invest on some such advence FF body, you want to used its features ! Shoot handled. 12800 isos at least. 25600 or 51200 is better. Look this border. When I apply DxO prime ot it, take it with an A7s it almost sharp ! Ahaha !

Oh ... That so awesome ! I'll always buy my new lenses looking at DxO only ! And buy huge lenses to mount them on A7r. The yorkshire metaphor is so exiting ! A new world of possibilities. master, look ! I can even choose the border that is sharp in the photo by moving the possition of the sun in the frame... Thank you so much master !


Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-02-2014 at 03:37 PM.
11-02-2014, 02:59 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
fa31 is irrelevant to the point that was made, which was, pentax zooms are weak sauce... you have to go 3rd party to get the best zoom for pentax cameras.

try to stay on topic.



no, dxo measures at all apertures, as well as actual light transmission, vignetting, and distortion... in other words, the very most important things for pq.



wrong again... nex system can mount ALL lenses that have ever been made, pentax is totally limited on what lenses are available.



ff emount can run aps-c mode, for the same dof as pentax, but why bother shooting with a crippled crop sensor? the iso performance with crop sensors sucks, period.

pentax does NOT make the best lenses in the world, lol... every lens manufacturer makes a couple of exceptional lenses, nex users can pick and choose from all lenses in the world.

pentax lens choices are extremely limited, because it's locked into only one or two lens mounts... pentax kmount is a dead-end platform.

now lets compare pentax 24mp crop vs. sony 24mp crop... your precious da15 has really lousy resolution numbers, and even the best pentax 50mm macro can't match the resolution numbers of the sony 24mm prime:
Based on all this hard facts (that you clearly state) about how mediocre, crippled, limited and weak Pentax is, when compared to Sony's nex system perfection, strength, universaly compatible and top quality optics, lets me ask you a few questions as a PENTAX user I suppose you are:

1- Have you started your gear swtching towards Sony?

2- Do you plan to sell all your Pentax gear or what do you feel it's worth keeping?

3- (just as reference) How long have you been a Pentax user and how many times (if ever) have you felt the need to switch systems?

Don't get me wrong on this questions. Is that I feel you are so convinced about how bad Pentax is and how good Sony is, that some of us -humble lifelong Pentax users- would really appreciate if you could share some of that invaluable knowledge that supports your claims.
11-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The lense, it can be even an APSC lense. We don't care. What count is that you can buy an adapter for it (so it loose a little in term of optical quality and autofocus at the same time) >SNIP<
i can't stop laughing, lol

but seriously, i did try to read some of that drivel you posted, but i gave up immediately, because just in the first sentence alone, there was sooo much misinformation!!

for example, you just claimed that adapters "lose optical quality and autofocus", which is of course wrong.

the sony lea4 adapter allows ff emount cameras to use full autofocus with all legacy and current a-mount lenses, from the sony dslr line.

so if i want autofocus, i don't need e-mount lenses at all.

---------- Post added 11-02-2014 at 03:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Based on all this hard facts (that you clearly state) about how mediocre, crippled, limited and weak Pentax is, when compared to Sony's nex system perfection, strength, universaly compatible and top quality optics, lets me ask you a few questions as a PENTAX user I suppose you are:

1- Have you started your gear swtching towards Sony?
absolutely not! why would i want to give up the best glass that pentax has to offer? and why would i want to switch to another dslr platform, that uses a horrible ovf? you can't get accurate manual focus with any ovf, period.

i just tested a bunch of 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm lenses, from canon, konica, pentax, minolta, etc. on the a7r, and i'm keeping the pentax versions of those focal lengths, over everything else... so your failed sarcasm is wrong, lol

however, i did the same testing with probably ten 24mm primes, and the k24/2.8 failed right off the bat, because the sides on ff are worse than the others... there are very few 24mm primes that have flat fields on ff.

i have pics to back all that up on my blog.
11-02-2014, 05:24 PM - 1 Like   #26
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Dear Mr. OSV:

Thats the strangest answer I've ever seen...

First, you say Pentax optics suck, the system is limited, crippled and that Sony's system has access to the best optics ever made by anyone; but even under this claims, you still say that after testing several brands (including some of the most reputable ever), you decided to stay with Pentax on three fl's; but at the same time, you base your bashing and bitchin' against Pentax with certain bad results from testing a single copy of a single fl. (K24/2.8).

With all due respect, this doesn't sound right. If I am opening my mouth to talk againt anything, I better make sure my doing backs up my words. Your posts are equivalent as anyones that bashes againt tobacco but yet, still smokes. IMHO, life has taught me to ignore and avoid all "self made martyrs" that spend a lifetime bashing againts anything, to later discover they are active practitioners or supporters of what they bash. Remember Jimmy Swaggart!
11-02-2014, 05:52 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the goal is to get a camera that allows you to use wide rangefinder glass? wide rf glass is weak even on the rangefinder cameras that it was designed for... even so, there are a couple of expensive wide m-mount lenses that work on digital sensors like the a7r:
UPDATED: Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R (Leica "WATE" Tri Elmar 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH and Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f/1.8 ASPH)

but look at the size of that ultron 21... it's an rf lens posing as a slr lens :-)

for several hundred $$ less, you could get the new nikon 20/1.8.

the a7r is way beyond anything that you've ever used before, and again, the raw file issue that you are fixated on simply isn't a factor: Sony A7R teams up with Canon glass

however, the way that you looking at all three of the a7x models indicates that you don't really have a need for any of them... people who have clear goals for the best p.q. know that the a7r/d810 will fit the bill, and that's not you.

if you had a real need for low-light performance, you'd be buying the a7s, and you'd know that was right for you, because it's the best there is on the market today.
Thanks for the answer. My goal basically was to get a A7x class camera to mount almost any glass that covers FF circle. More of a tinkering camera. I don't really have a need to upgrade but was considering it because these cameras were tempting and for the first time made me stop and think switching brands. As it stands now, I can still wait, for a better offering until my trusty K-5 fails me.
11-02-2014, 05:59 PM - 1 Like   #28
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IMO the A7 is a great camera and the 55 1.8 is one of the best lenses ever made, even better than the DA*55 1.4. But I'm not getting rid of my pentax stuff quite yet because of the lack of a good zeiss 85mm in the E-mount and the SR in the pentax can be a lifesaver. The A7 would be a good kit with the 35 2.8, 55 1.8, and a 85 1.8.

The reason sony is making slower lenses for the A7 is to keep the size small-ish, the same reason pentax makes all of their DA limiteds slow. The 55 1.8 really isn't that big and doesn't need the hood at all so that saves on size.

Some examples of the A7 with 55/1.8:












Last edited by GateCityRadio; 11-02-2014 at 06:06 PM.
11-02-2014, 11:32 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the sony lea4 adapter allows ff emount cameras to use full autofocus with all legacy and current a-mount lenses, from the sony dslr line.
Yeah, Sony need an expensive adapter to mount its own lenses ! We just been back to something that can support perfectly all the lenses that ever existed in your previous statement to something that would keep autofocus for Sony own lenses.

Look like they are exactly as the same level as any brand. They can support everything provided the registration distance of the lens you want to mount is longer the current camera registration distance and as usual the autofocus is mainl keep for the brand own lenses.

And still adapters, reduce optical quality... It has been posted before on this forum:

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
As they explain you will only start to notice it if you look at your image 50% size... For a A7r, 50% size give you... 8MP. (50% is based on scale, not surface).

Not like anybody care. The guy explained, this is more than enough for a good photo. But the super extra sharpness you have with the lens... it is gone when you add the adapter.

Nobody see it because lenses are tested without adapters. So when one look at some review, he can think he still benefit of the perfect corners sharpness he dreamt about... Even through he now have very average sharpness for a good part of the image.

Does it really matter? Well it keep more sharpness than you really need for most cases... But I mean, it was already the case of the DA15 from the begining.

---------- Post added 11-03-14 at 07:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by GateCityRadio Quote
IMO the A7 is a great camera and the 55 1.8 is one of the best lenses ever made, even better than the DA*55 1.4. But I'm not getting rid of my pentax stuff quite yet because of the lack of a good zeiss 85mm in the E-mount and the SR in the pentax can be a lifesaver. The A7 would be a good kit with the 35 2.8, 55 1.8, and a 85 1.8.

The reason sony is making slower lenses for the A7 is to keep the size small-ish, the same reason pentax makes all of their DA limiteds slow. The 55 1.8 really isn't that big and doesn't need the hood at all so that saves on size.

Some examples of the A7 with 55/1.8:











Thoses picture are nice... I mean 40 years olds lenses on film can achieve the same you know... And if everything is in focus, a compact could achieve the thing too if you don't need bokeh.

Not that I want to say A7 familly is unable to take great photos. Of course they can... Like all cameras.

Would the photos be that much worse with a K3 and a FA31 f/1.8 than with this A7 FF and 55 f/1.8... I'am not so sure.

Still Sony has almost no lenses nativelly available and they are all expensive. On pentax the DA35 f/2.4 achieve almostthe performance of FA31... Not in the bokeh highlight, and with some subtle rendering difference. But while not as good, it is already very good. it cost 150€ or something to buy. There nothing like that available for Sony A7 on native mount. Sony adapter is going to cost more than the lens !

It is very likely that the DA35 f/2.4 would have done just as good on 4 of the 5 photos you included ! For the first one with the OOF highlight, I would not bet on it. The FA43 would have give you likely a more 3D look, more contrast, more colors than what your actual shoots while at least on my screen on the forum size yours look quite classic and flat. But that very likely too that FA43 would have add much more disturbing out of focus bokeh too at least in 1-2 photos.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-02-2014 at 11:48 PM.
11-03-2014, 07:59 AM   #30
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your photos are amazing !! Canikon users cannot beat you with their gear.
as Olivier Duong sad : The more you invest in gear the less interest in photography; The more you invest in photography the less interest in gear !
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