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11-04-2014, 01:37 PM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
no, it doesn't, and no, you don't have anything nearly as good as a "51mp crop", lol
First point, maybe you should take the time to review the pentax offering... For 4800$ you get a 40MP digital medium frame camera brand new. On amazon they have a refurbished version for 3700$ and an used version for 4000$. The new version, with 51MP is 8500$. For the price you also get more resolution and better high isos, all together.

Second point as for anybody in need lot of resolution this is far easier than one might think. You just need to stich panaramas. That work for landscape and can compensate the lack of an UVA... or just help on the MP count if you want to print big. My last pano was 70MP and I wasn't that after extreme resolution. Some are after extreme resolutions and go beyond 1giga pixels and arround the biggest you have a 260 gigapixel shoot of london.

You can do portraits with it too, that a panorama with shallow deph of field... It give access to very shallow deph of field when you are stuck with very basic material like 85mm f/1.4 and an FF into a 24mm f/0.5 or a 300mm f/2.8 into a 55mm f/0.5... or said another way to the rendering you can get on a medium frame or even a chamber.

You get things that look like that:




So well 36mp is nothing special, nothing extratordinary or something that only a few of us can experiment... Everybody has already much more or can if he is interrested... Or make its own.

11-04-2014, 04:02 PM   #62
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wow, so "yellow" !!!! this is what I like, saturate color everywhere !
11-04-2014, 04:05 PM   #63
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Well for me the answer is simple. I just like my Pentax gear. And to be honest, from technical point of view, each bigger company on this market makes very good cameras. But I love Pentax - quality and some small size gear. I will never buy Sigma 18 - 35 for my Pentax body, no matter how good it is. Limited 20 - 40 is another story - it is fine, just pricey fo me...
11-04-2014, 05:32 PM   #64
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Glad to see that this is back on topic. Lots of good reasons to stay with Pentax. For me it is my supply of fine lenses and bodies like the K3.

11-04-2014, 05:35 PM   #65
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I agree, in fact there is a steady "flow" between Canon and Nikon, Nikon and Sony, ... People just claim they need one particular lens and say just because they have to sell one gear to another...
11-04-2014, 05:37 PM   #66
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I stay with Pentax because I can't afford Leica.
11-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
First point, maybe you should take the time to review the pentax offering... For 4800$ you get a 40MP digital medium frame camera brand new. On amazon they have a refurbished version for 3700$ and an used version for 4000$.
keeping in mind that you've never used any of the cameras in question; your participation in this thread has been nothing but idle speculation and trolling... no, the 645d at $4-$4.8k is not a reason to stay with pentax over the $2.1k a7r:

"Proat • a year ago
To my eyes the A7R bests the 645D in sharpness and color in your comparometer. In fact, the A7R looks like the best camera of the all period...wow...just wow.

Dave Etchells Mod Proat • a year ago
Yeah, that was pretty much our reaction. Truly amazing."
Sony A7R image quality analysis: Medium-format quality in a 35mm body? Judge for yourself.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The 645z, with 51MP is 8500$. For the price you also get more resolution and better high isos, all together.
whoops, you forgot about the price of the glass, didn't you? better add what, at least another $3k to that $8.5k claim of yours

plus, you are telling people to dump all of their 35mm lenses, that could be used on the a7r, for a heavy brick with an obsolete and horrible ovf, that has it's own share of problems:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/277793-meeting-pe...5z-issues.html

so no, medium format is not a reason to stay with pentax... when 50mp ff sensors hit the market(next year?), even the 645z will be little more than a boat anchor, just like the 645d is now.
11-05-2014, 01:14 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
keeping in mind that you've never used any of the cameras in question; your participation in this thread has been nothing but idle speculation and trolling... no, the 645d at $4-$4.8k is not a reason to stay with pentax over the $2.1k a7r:

"Proat • a year ago
To my eyes the A7R bests the 645D in sharpness and color in your comparometer. In fact, the A7R looks like the best camera of the all period...wow...just wow.

Dave Etchells Mod Proat • a year ago
Yeah, that was pretty much our reaction. Truly amazing."
Sony A7R image quality analysis: Medium-format quality in a 35mm body? Judge for yourself.
So we can assume you tryed both the 645D & 645Z extensively as you obviously did also with A7r, A7 and A7s. You also tryed large & medium format and film, scanned the results... And still think it not as good to what Sony did.

Maybe I could resume your vision and say that A7 familly is the best thing that hapened since sliced bread and that it beat any camera ever made and to be made... Except the new Sony one, of course.

QuoteQuote:
whoops, you forgot about the price of the glass, didn't you? better add what, at least another $3k to that $8.5k claim of yours
This is just the price of few high quality lenses on any system. While I'd admit that if we think we might miss AF, you might spend only half of that for your 645 body.


QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
so no, medium format is not a reason to stay with pentax... when 50mp ff sensors hit the market(next year?), even the 645z will be little more than a boat anchor, just like the 645d is now.
Exactly the same I think you'll do the day we have 36MP on APSC or some P&S have 20MP on 1" sensor (already available) Or some phone has 40MP sensor (already available). You'll not give a shit.

Also, that maybe not be a reason to stay, but for some that a reason to come in : Pentax 645z In-Depth Review

QuoteQuote:
plus, you are telling people to dump all of their 35mm lenses, that could be used on the a7r, for a heavy brick with an obsolete and horrible ovf, that has it's own share of problems:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/277793-meeting-pe...5z-issues.html
For me, there no point to keep my 35mm AF lenses if it is to mount them on an A7 and loose autofocus. If I'am to go manual focus and A7r, I sell my AF lenses for a good price and buy back a set of M lenses. If you had only manual lenses from the begining, that's a different topic of course.

Thing is I prefer to have AF. That's not everybody case but I'am not alone.


Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-05-2014 at 02:04 PM.
11-05-2014, 01:14 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
for a heavy brick with an obsolete and horrible ovf, that has it's own share of problems
Gawd, this is so irritating.

Another ... how can I describe it... false and totally un-objective statement that keeps getting repeated by osv.

OVFs are not obsolete, and and some of us prefer them.

OVF is obsolete because it's old and EVFs are new? Old vs. new was never an argument to state what's obsolete and what's not. There's plenty of stuff that gets released every year that fails to overthrow an older concept. And there's things that are released, that live side by side with existing technology. Just deal with it.
11-05-2014, 01:55 PM   #70
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I can say why I'am staying with Pentax.

I don't see much value in high isos. Most very high iso just look like crap even on the latest FF and the many of best low light shoots still tend to be taken near isos 100 anyway. The possibilities with APSC allow me to get the occassionnal low light shoot wthout fear on the comparisons from other DSLR and that more than enough for it.

I don't see much value neither in extremely shallow deph of field. I have found that f/1.8 is already really good and that I don't need fast apperture that much and surely not on all lenses or on wide angle. As I know how use my gear, if this is really needed I could alway use the breneizer method for the shoot out of 10 thousand I be interrested to do so... And get 24mm f/0.5 equivalent deph of field.

I don't see much value in ultimate resolution to go up to 50MP with the rumored new FF or the extreme border performance of the lense at f/1.2... The one time in 2 millions this might be needed, I know how to take photos, I could just make a panorama and get a 200MP shoot if that's important. It never occured that I felt the need even through I have a few high resolution panarama... More because I wanted the panorama than because I wanted the resolution.

What I value if that the shoots I take look great. And they do. I also see on this forum guys that make incredible photos, all on their Pentax... mostly APSC. It just show I don't need more. So I know that when my photos are not so great it is mostly me. Going FF, MF or whatever will not make me a greater photographer outside of the one trick pony affair of the occasionnal extreme shallow deph of field shoot.

Having a set of small prime through worked very well through to improve my framing.

I discovered that I like small primes and to play with theses. I like to travel and take some photos and the Pentax lenses tend to give me overall very nice results. The FA77 for exemple is incredible. I got very interresting results too with my DA21 and DA15. The DA35 f/2.4 is innexpensive but at a very high level.

For the occasionnal event, I can just get the 50-135 out with my cobra flash. This give all the low light capabilities I needs ! That on the DA35 wide open when on a trip. Difficult to have smaller and better than this little gem.

Overall I'am happy and I think my photos are already better than when I started a little more than 2 years ago...


A few shoots from last few months to illustrate this:


































Would this look visibly better on any other brand ? I seriously doubt it. Would they look better If I was a better photographer? That's for sure !

But I get something quite compact, a WR robust body, smaller and finally quite affordable lenses if you account their quality. And there are the nice little things like SR or the goods ergonomics.
11-05-2014, 04:36 PM   #71
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A couple of days ago, someone along this same thread, tried to "clarify" to some of us, that is perfectly normal to like two different systems based on the good things offered by both.

Even though I believed this was not the case in this thread, I just decided to steer clear and move aside, in order to cool down for a while in this matter, truly believing the best course of action, is to avoid feeding this troll.

But after reading osv's post (quoted here), I feel compelled to declare that I still have a sense of true disbelief about this person's state of mind, and beginning to believe his intentions are far from honest, by continually emphasizing Pentax's miserable quality and at the same time, breathing through Sony's a**hole like if it was the last drop of water in the dessert.

Worst thing about this is precisely where it is happening: right here, at the Pentax Forum!!! If this was going on at the "SonyForum"it would be more than normal and sometimes hilarious. But you do not "crap where you eat" (unless you are being payed for!) What would you think of someone that tells you that this restaurant's food is all crap, will make you sick and its not worth feeding your dog with it, but when you ask him: well, then tell me where do you eat? Right here!!! because I love a couple of dishes from the menu....

If this single post is not about "desperately" bashing against Pentax and worshipping Sony as the ultimate divine God's gift to every single frustrated photographer on Earth, then I don't know what this is.

Unless of course, this is a matter of mental health issues or more likely, an intentional behavior promoted (payed by) a desperate sponsor...

In the meantime, I rest my case, go back to my choirs, enjoy my Pentax gear, anxiously hope for the rainy season to go away... and for the first time in my life, click on the "ignore" button on ghis or any other forum or chat room since the beginning of the www.




QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
keeping in mind that you've never used any of the cameras in question; your participation in this thread has been nothing but idle speculation and trolling... no, the 645d at $4-$4.8k is not a reason to stay with pentax over the $2.1k a7r:

"Proat a year ago
To my eyes the A7R bests the 645D in sharpness and color in your comparometer. In fact, the A7R looks like the best camera of the all period...wow...just wow.

Dave Etchells Mod Proat a year ago
Yeah, that was pretty much our reaction. Truly amazing."
Sony A7R image quality analysis: Medium-format quality in a 35mm body? Judge for yourself.



whoops, you forgot about the price of the glass, didn't you? better add what, at least another $3k to that $8.5k claim of yours

plus, you are telling people to dump all of their 35mm lenses, that could be used on the a7r, for a heavy brick with an obsolete and horrible ovf, that has it's own share of problems:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/277793-meeting-pe...5z-issues.html

so no, medium format is not a reason to stay with pentax... when 50mp ff sensors hit the market(next year?), even the 645z will be little more than a boat anchor, just like the 645d is now.
11-05-2014, 04:46 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I can say why I'am staying with Pentax.

I don't see much value in high isos. Most very high iso just look like crap even on the latest FF and the many of best low light shoots still tend to be taken near isos 100 anyway. The possibilities with APSC allow me to get the occassionnal low light shoot wthout fear on the comparisons from other DSLR and that more than enough for it.

I don't see much value neither in extremely shallow deph of field. I have found that f/1.8 is already really good and that I don't need fast apperture that much and surely not on all lenses or on wide angle. As I know how use my gear, if this is really needed I could alway use the breneizer method for the shoot out of 10 thousand I be interrested to do so... And get 24mm f/0.5 equivalent deph of field.

I don't see much value in ultimate resolution to go up to 50MP with the rumored new FF or the extreme border performance of the lense at f/1.2... The one time in 2 millions this might be needed, I know how to take photos, I could just make a panorama and get a 200MP shoot if that's important. It never occured that I felt the need even through I have a few high resolution panarama... More because I wanted the panorama than because I wanted the resolution.

What I value if that the shoots I take look great. And they do. I also see on this forum guys that make incredible photos, all on their Pentax... mostly APSC. It just show I don't need more. So I know that when my photos are not so great it is mostly me. Going FF, MF or whatever will not make me a greater photographer outside of the one trick pony affair of the occasionnal extreme shallow deph of field shoot.

Having a set of small prime through worked very well through to improve my framing.

I discovered that I like small primes and to play with theses. I like to travel and take some photos and the Pentax lenses tend to give me overall very nice results. The FA77 for exemple is incredible. I got very interresting results too with my DA21 and DA15. The DA35 f/2.4 is innexpensive but at a very high level.

For the occasionnal event, I can just get the 50-135 out with my cobra flash. This give all the low light capabilities I needs ! That on the DA35 wide open when on a trip. Difficult to have smaller and better than this little gem.

Overall I'am happy and I think my photos are already better than when I started a little more than 2 years ago...

Would this look visibly better on any other brand ? I seriously doubt it. Would they look better If I was a better photographer? That's for sure !

But I get something quite compact, a WR robust body, smaller and finally quite affordable lenses if you account their quality. And there are the nice little things like SR or the goods ergonomics.
I love the 2nd photo you posted, its fabulous.

re: High ISO, depending on the type of photography you engage in, it can be very important. Some venues do not allow flash usage. Sometimes setting up flash appropriately takes too long and you lose the opportunity. Sometimes you need high ISO in order to have a fast enough exposure to capture movement. And sometimes, with careful processing, high-ISO photos can look pretty good:

ISO 4800 equivalent:
11-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
, that could be used on the a7r

Osv, why would you go over to a camera without image stabilisation?


Without phase detection like our Pentaxes? ie slow autofocus.


Unable to focus in low light like the K-3?


Potentially have light leaks or mirror bounce problems at certain shutter speeds?


With your beautiful K-mount lenses lose autofocus, auto aperture, and the TTL flash?


Be stuck with the poor lineup of FE lenses that the Sony executive virtually apologised for at Photokina?


Use adaptors (both 'optical' and 'physical') that Roger Cicala has warned against?


Watch it have *less* pixels than a cheap K-500 with your APS-C lenses in DX mode? (Not 24Mp as some might think, but 15!)


Please, sell your K-10 so you can leave these forums ... life membership at SonyAlphaRumors awaits you!

Last edited by clackers; 11-05-2014 at 06:01 PM.
11-05-2014, 06:08 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Osv, why would you go over to a camera without image stabilisation?
i didn't "go over" to anything, i still use a lot of pentax glass.

16-35, 24-70, 28-70 and 70-200 zooms all have image stabilization, if you need that crutch.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Without phase detection like our Pentaxes? ie slow autofocus.
sounds like you haven't looked at the sony crop sensor cameras.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Unable to focus in low light like the K-3?
have you looked at the a7s autofocus?

wrt manual focusing, nothing that pentax offers begins to compare, because it's all obsolete ovf.

you should try evf focusing.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Potentially have light leaks or mirror bounce problems at certain shutter speeds?
pentax sold tens of thousands of film cameras with shutter bounce problems.

and there are plenty of dslr light leaks... you aren't very well informed about technology.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
With your beautiful K-mount lenses lose autofocus, auto aperture, and the TTL flash?
i'm strictly manual focus, so i don't care, but it's all there in other lens mounts, like emount and amount, for the spray 'n pray crowd that has to use the crippled ovf.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Be stuck with the poor lineup of FE lenses that the Sony executive virtually apologised for at Photokina?
why, when i have access to tens of thousands of lenses that you can't touch with your kmount camera?

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Use adaptors (both 'optical' and 'physical') that Roger Cicala has warned against?
proven to be totally unsubstantiated in real world use... you see if you can find anything to the contrary.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Watch it have *less* pixels than a cheap K-500 with your APS-C lenses in DX mode?
i never bought any aps-c lenses, but if i owned a crop sensor sony, it would have the same 24mp resolution that a k3 has.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Please, sell your K-10 so you can leave these forums!
like many others out here, i'd still have the pentax lenses, we are vested in pentax.

the advantage with us is that we aren't platform bigots.

---------- Post added 11-05-2014 at 05:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Gawd, this is so irritating.

Another ... how can I describe it... false and totally un-objective statement that keeps getting repeated by osv.
false?

645z: 1470 g (body only)
a7: 407 g (body only)

not sure why you would think that a 645z is lighter than an a7r?

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
OVF is obsolete because it's old and EVFs are new?
your words, not mine.

it sounds like you've never done a serious evaluation of a good evf... mirrorless cameras are so cheap to manufacture that pentax will have to start doing it sooner or later.

if you decide to move up from the k20d or whatever you have now, evf might be your only choice.

---------- Post added 11-05-2014 at 05:36 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Except the new Sony one, of course.
exactly... when those 50mp sensors hit the market, my a7r will be obsolete.

but "obsolete" will take on a new meaning when bsi sensors become commonplace, like that new samsung nx1.

28mp crop sensor, with some very big claims about low-light performance.

nice pics, btw.
11-05-2014, 06:52 PM   #75
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As a recent Sony A7 convert, and one who had invested in Pentax heavily, here's my reason: by moving to A7, I can no longer blame my own suckiness on camera body has the limiting factor.

For most of us enthusiasts, the gear is never, ever the limiting factor, but we love to say, 'oh, if I had so and so [body/lense], I would have gotten a good shot instead'. That's almost never true. I have long accepted that my dedication/creativity/techniques (or the lack of) are the real reasons my photos suck.

I think the same realization is why a lot of wiser folks contend with Pentax, with what they current have. But, moving to the full frame 'greatness', to me personally and mentally, is more of a motivation booster. I can no longer use the lazy excuse of having the cropped sensor, but instead go shoot and improve.
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