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11-06-2014, 09:43 AM   #106
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The thing is, I don't think OSV is trolling. He really thinks EVFs made OVFs completely obsolete, and we're stupid for still using them.

Nevermind that every premium mirrorless has an empty prism box taking up space anyway. I think it was brilliant of Ricoh to fill that empty space with the fantastic K-3 pentaprism when they did the SV-1 that looks like a mirrorless - but I digress. Also, so many of these people touting the small size of the mirrorless for not having a mirror fill that space with an adapter. But I digress again.

After OSV's talking down of northcoastgreg, on another thread, as someone who knew nothing about lenses and only wants good color and contrast from the lens because he can't do PP - I think there's no limit to this guy's arrogance.

11-06-2014, 09:58 AM   #107
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I am a little annoyed by osv's superciliousness. "Clearly you haven't used a camera with an amazing 36 megapixel sensor, like I have."

There are many brands out there and each offers strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, flash controlling a strength of the Nikon system, if you need it. Canon and Nikon have a wider variety and more specialty lenses than most of the other brands out there, including Sony. Comparing the A7r to the D800/D810, I would personally choose the D810. I don't really care about the whole EVF versus OVF thing, but the Nikon ecosystem is more developed with lenses that are going to work well with good metering and auto focus, not requiring adapters. NEX may be there some day, but it isn't now/.
11-06-2014, 10:05 AM   #108
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QuoteQuote:
I am a little annoyed by osv's superciliousness. "Clearly you haven't used a camera with an amazing 36 megapixel sensor, like I have."
Quit using those big words, or I'll put you on my ignore list...
So is he Supercilious of Super-silliest, you be the judge...
11-06-2014, 02:44 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Don't get me started! You pay $1500 for a lens, to find that you gained one stop by going Full Frame, and then lose one by only being f4! That's not money well spent!
i don't pay $1500 for lenses, because i can get higher resolution and better iso performance out of a $100 piece of legacy glass on a 36mp sensor, than any crop sensor pentax lens combo there is.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The top of the line A7R and as it was then NEX 7 doesn't have it ! The A5000 certainly doesn't. The A7 and the NEX 6 only support some lenses - a couple of years ago, it was *four*.
you said: "Without phase detection like our Pentaxes? ie slow autofocus"

no... "The LA-EA4 and the LA-EA3...This adapter enables extremely fast, accurate phase detection autofocus with any compatible A-mount lens (SAM or SSM) attached to an E-mount camera."
Your ?7 and ?7R Questions Answered- Updated | Sony

but is your idea of phase detection really the future: "Phase Detection and Lens Calibration Issues: the problem with the traditional DSLR phase detection system not only lies with the secondary mirror alignment issues, but also requires lenses to be properly calibrated. It becomes a two way game – precise focus requires perfect angle and distance of the secondary mirror to the phase detection sensors (as explained above), and requires a properly calibrated lens to the body.
Read more: Mirrorless vs DSLR

sony is incorporating hybrid autofocus into it's systems: "The previous NEX-6 offered 99 phase-detect AF points spread over around 50% of the frame, whereas now the A6000 employs 179 phase-detect AF points spread over around 92% of the frame. In short, where the NEX-6 reverted back to contrast-based AF as the subject went outside the central phase-detect zone, the A6000 can exploit phase-detection almost up to the very edges of the frame. This should mean effective tracking of a subject almost wherever it is on the frame."
Sony A6000 review | Cameralabs

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Again, you're showing your ignorance. It is contrast detection only!
see above, lol... now compare the number of focus points:
pentax k-3: 27
sony a6000: 179

for someone who claims to use a nex 3 and a nex 7, you are woefully ignorant about the platform.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Live view, magnification, focus peaking??? What else do you want?
sony has all that via the oled evf, which has higher resolution than any pentax lcd, and it doesn't get washed out in bright light.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
repeating discredited information from a previous post doesn't make it true

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It's your lack of facts, not your Sony platform cheerleading that have had members like Nicolas, Drypenn, Rburgoss, Christian Rock et al shaking their heads in disbelief.
my lack of facts? lol

how about if you tell us again how sony doesn't have phase detection autofocus...

11-06-2014, 05:48 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
U r totally right.. but for example, for a guy that needs complex lighting the actual Pentax flash system as it is ( without third party hardware ) is not as flexible as the competitors.. and this counts,when we want to bring pro shooters, pro studio, portrait, events shooters all this counts.. I dont think that a flash system will count for a guy that shoots landscapes, or wild animals.. but for other people, artificial light ( flashes ) is one of the most important things.. you cant imagine how glad i was when Cactus announce that they released the V6 that could control flash power remotely.. and that also it can control flash zoom if the controller is used with their own flash.. Just another little example that makes some difference but as i said that details important to some people... For example, and perhaps some aroudn here had experienced this, when you use Pentax 360FGZ mk1, if you put the flash in manual mode and use it remotely, if you dont shoot in a period of time ( less than a minute ) the flash goes to sleep, and there is no other way to wake it up than to go fisically and turn it back on ( sometimes loosing the settings ).. and the worst part, there is no way to disable this in the menu.. 540 can.. but 360 can not... With the introduction of Cactus V6 because it works at PTTL the flash doesnt go to sleep as fast, and if the flash goes to "sleep" as long as the V6 receiver is ON you can wake it up remotely... as i said, little details that makes some difference from one system to another...

I will love to see more studio, portrait, commercial shooters using Pentax... but as long as we dont fix bugs, we are going to be a step behind the competitors and with a world changing so fast in technology the brand cant take that risk..
As I said earlier, Pentax could use some improvement/upgrade on some flash features (notably sync speed, wireless sync etc.) but for the most of the part, Pentax PTTL works as it is intended for, in particular with the latest 360fgz II model. In my book, it is a fantastic flash (and probably the first one to come out with LED catch light as someone confirmed also that Nikon's latest flash also have the same but still Canon does not have one yet). With the 360fgz II in wireless SLAVE mode, you can disable the auto power-off function, the power will turn off after 1-hr of non-operation, may be your claim only applies to old model. I am a stage/event photographer and often shoot side-by-side with Nikon and Canon photogs. With the 360fgz II, I don't need to have a complex setup, no diffuser such as Stofen and Gary Fong, and I don't see that the Pentax flash system has hampered my ability to get the shots I want in these events with or without flash.

Since I don't have any room for my login ID to attach a photo here, I just want to show you what I mean of the result (not just taking my words for it), here is a link to one of my photos on flickr as an example. https://flic.kr/p/pQ76ca

There is one more point about the LED catch light feature on these new flashes. It is very easy/handy to use as well as putting more concerns to people around you when you take a flash photo, which is rather important IMHO. Diffusers like Stofen and GaryFong dome both have a flash portion extended beyond the flash head, so when the flash is lit up it is like a light bulb, it is very easy to get the people (audience or guests) around you a shock. There was one time and a true story, when I was taking photos in one dinner event, I went to the front the guest dinner table and knelt down to take a shot of the dance performance, unaware of next to me an old lady who did not expect my flash was only a couple feet from her watching the show. I literally blinded her and I swore that she would have said something very rude; my first instinct was to apologise profusely. The lesson I learned was to modify my Stofen omni by putting a black/white card around it so people behind me don't get blinded by my flash.........Anyway, long story short... if some day, I need to jump ship from Pentax to other camera systems, weak flash support will definitely NOT be the reason.

Yes, fgzII models with LED catch light (good feature for video too) are the first ones from Pentax among major camera makers (so they are a step behind competitors as you said?).
11-06-2014, 07:42 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Nevermind that every premium mirrorless has an empty prism box taking up space anyway. I think it was brilliant of Ricoh to fill that empty space with the fantastic K-3 pentaprism when they did the SV-1 that looks like a mirrorless - but I digress. Also, so many of these people touting the small size of the mirrorless for not having a mirror fill that space with an adapter. But I digress again.
I don't know if I quite follow about the empty prism box, the EVF is housed in it and it's not nearly the size of the prism box on a DSLR.

I rarely use my K-mount lenses on my A7 for the reason of size. The Pentax lenses work best on a Pentax body, so even though I do have an adapter, it rarely sees any use. I don't think anyone who owns a mirrorless intends on doing serious work with an adapted lens. When I'm referring to the size difference it's with a native lens and also the weight difference.

Please don't anyone take anything I'm saying here personally, just putting in my input from owning both Pentax DSLRS and the Sony A7. They are both great camera systems with their own pros and cons.
11-06-2014, 09:40 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Yes, fgzII models with LED catch light (good feature for video too) are the first ones from Pentax among major camera makers (so they are a step behind competitors as you said?).
Is good to know that the Mk2s have that options, personally i thnk that Mk1s are really limiting, specially the 360. I stil think that i can be even better, specially for strobist.. but lets see.. perhaps in the future we will have some groups/power/zoom control and even radio TTL features in the system .. Everything that makes the brand stand up from the rest is great to get more market and to keep current users..
11-07-2014, 12:42 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by GateCityRadio Quote
I rarely use my K-mount lenses on my A7 for the reason of size. The Pentax lenses work best on a Pentax body, so even though I do have an adapter, it rarely sees any use. I don't think anyone who owns a mirrorless intends on doing serious work with an adapted lens. When I'm referring to the size difference it's with a native lens and also the weight difference.
I'm the complete opposite. I shoot A7 almost exclusively with Pentax glass. Even with an adapter, the 43mm is still quite small in comparison to Sony's native offers. And the performance of 77mm on A7 is just heart melting.

11-07-2014, 01:11 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by SealMe Quote
I'm the complete opposite. I shoot A7 almost exclusively with Pentax glass. Even with an adapter, the 43mm is still quite small in comparison to Sony's native offers. And the performance of 77mm on A7 is just heart melting.
I guess I'm just not used to manual focusing on the EVF yet. I have played with the FA43 on it and I find that it's about the same size as the 55/1.8 if you include the size of the adapter. I need to get out and try the FA77 on it. Like I said earlier though, I'm just not 100% comfortable with the EVF and manual focusing yet. The focus peaking seems nice, but I don't trust it alone, I usually end up using the magnification and it just feels like an extra step compared to using manual glass on Pentax OVFs. The K5 (and my previous K7) have excellent OVFs.
11-07-2014, 01:21 AM   #115
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I'm going to risk being on topic:

I still shoot Pentax because I have no real reason not to. I like my lenses, I like my camera, they get results that are good enough for me. I highly distrust DXOmark, their numbers might be right, but they are generally meaningless. Photozone is a bit better, since it doesn't feel like it was written by a robot. I'm sure there are cameras/lenses that are numerically better, but how does that effect me? According to 500px, my lens that takes the pictures that people like the second most is the silly, plastic, F35-70 Macro, I doubt anyone thinks that it is a technically "good" lens, but it does the job, and apparently does it well. Isn't that all that matters? Most of my photos are either printed or shared in compressed jpegs, so having a 50mp camera doesn't really do much.

More importantly, I like my camera. When I was buying my first DSLR, I bought a K-x. Why? Because it was the only DSLR that didn't flex when I squeezed it, and it also had the only kit lens that didn't feel like cheap, flexible plastic, with a rotating front element. Using my friends and relatives Canikons and my MFT Olympus, I can safely say that, if nothing else, Pentax has nailed UI and feel. At my non-pro price point, Pentax has the most bang for my buck.

Another reason I'm sticking around is that I love the community here. I haven't found any other community quite like it. Helpful, friendly, and generally not snobby.

I'm not a pro. I don't make my living on my camera. Perhaps I'd have a different opinion if I did. I just don't see anything else out there that is better for me. I look around from time to time, and none of the other brands really grab me.

Further, to get political... Sorry. I'm never giving Sony my money. No matter how good a product they make. I don't trust them, and have been burned by them several times with shoddy overpriced hardware. If I was to switch, I'd probably go over to an Olympus OM-D. Not that I am.

Further, I have yet to use a EVF that was anywhere as good as a decent OVF. I've tried all of them that I've come across, and they really can't compete with WYSIWYG. The only thing that would make my K-5's OVF better is a split focusing screen.

In the end, shoot what you enjoy. Who cares what other people use? I see no need for a battle here. We're talking, for the most part, about ART. Art isn't about the tools that you use, it is only about what you create and the emotions that you feel and convey. Does it give you joy? This is the only question that matters.
11-07-2014, 01:25 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Omestes Quote
In the end, shoot what you enjoy. Who cares what other people use? I see no need for a battle here. We're talking, for the most part, about ART. Art isn't about the tools that you use, it is only about what you create and the emotions that you feel and convey. Does it give you joy? This is the only question that matters.
^This.
11-07-2014, 01:44 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Omestes Quote
Does it give you joy? This is the only question that matters.
I second that too... maybe its the most important question..
11-07-2014, 04:15 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by GateCityRadio Quote
Like I said earlier though, I'm just not 100% comfortable with the EVF and manual focusing yet. The focus peaking seems nice, but I don't trust it alone, I usually end up using the magnification and it just feels like an extra step compared to using manual glass on Pentax OVFs. The K5 (and my previous K7) have excellent OVFs.
my k10d has a decent ovf, but no ovf is wysiwyg, because it can't show you what the photo is going to look like, in terms of exposure and such... i think that it's "setting effect ON" in the a7x menu, for wysiwyg evf display.

focus peaking works off of the jpeg engine, so when you do things like sharpen the in-camera jpegs in the camera menu, or choose b&w jpeg, it'll affect focus peaking in the evf.

you can turn down the amount of focus peaking, which can be really helpful, because then it only shows up when the object is in focus... too much focus peaking makes it difficult to find perfect focus, but it works well when combined with the first stage of magnification.

i have the overexposure function in the evf turned off.

the a7x eyecup is bad, but you can stretch a nikon dk19(?) rubber eyecup over it, and also put a big canon eyecup on there, with minor filing on the canon piece... that helps in bright sunlight.
11-07-2014, 05:13 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
my k10d has a decent ovf, but no ovf is wysiwyg, because it can't show you what the photo is going to look like, in terms of exposure and such
Point taken, perhaps a bad choice of words. I meant, it is literally what you see, i.e. it is what is in from of the camera, in real time. I haven't really seen an EVF that quite gets the "real time" right. There might be one out there, obviously, but I haven't encountered it. I'm not going to say EVF is terrible, or always will be inferior to OVF, some people might like it more, and someday it might be good enough for the others.

I'm also not a fan of the clutter most EVFs have. I don't need to know every setting of my camera; 99% of the information isn't relevant to shooting a good picture. I kind like my Bessa's rangefinder OVF, it just gives a frame line an RF patch, and a shutter speed. Thats all you really ever need to take a good shot.

There is a place for them, though. The EVF accessory on my Olympus is pretty useful from time to time. Especially in low light or with ND or IR filters, where OVF generally fails.
11-07-2014, 08:21 PM   #120
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evfs are not perfect... there will usually be noticeable evf lag in really low-light conditions, because the frame rate of the display slows down, apparently in order to jack up the gain on the evf screen... so the exposure is wysiwyg, but the picture isn't, because it's not quite real-time.

even in perfect light, the evf on the a7r will black out momentarily when the shutter is fired, which can be irritating for spray 'n pray shooting... you just keep moving the camera to follow the action, hoping that the shot is still framed up.

learning how to manually focus with it takes some time, in part because the focus peaking strength varies with different exposures, apertures, lighting conditions, and probably the contrast of the lens itself.
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