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11-01-2014, 12:54 PM   #1
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In just 5 years the K-7 is beaten by the CX sensor

So it took 5 years, but looking at the 20 megapixelsensor inside many camera's, one of them the Canon Powershot G7 X, the sensor is better then the oldy in the K-7. That sensor is less then 1/3th of the surface of the APS-C sensor (made by Samsung).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-PowerShot-G7-X-versus-Pentax-K7___978_615

So how long will it take to surpass a FF sensor, from just recent, with a new aps-c sensor?

11-01-2014, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So it took 5 years, but looking at the 20 megapixelsensor inside many camera's, one of them the Canon Powershot G7 X, the sensor is better then the oldy in the K-7. That sensor is less then 1/3th of the surface of the APS-C sensor (made by Samsung).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-PowerShot-G7-X-versus-Pentax-K7___978_615

So how long will it take to surpass a FF sensor, from just recent, with a new aps-c sensor?

I am sure this day will happen. Buy what I am sure also that
If they use the same technology under the same pixel, ff sensor will still beat aps-c and aps-c will beat the 1 inches sensor.
11-01-2014, 01:13 PM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So it took 5 years, but looking at the 20 megapixelsensor inside many camera's, one of them the Canon Powershot G7 X, the sensor is better then the oldy in the K-7. That sensor is less then 1/3th of the surface of the APS-C sensor (made by Samsung).

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-PowerShot-G7-X-versus-Pentax-K7___978_615

So how long will it take to surpass a FF sensor, from just recent, with a new aps-c sensor?

The sensor in the K-7 was actually a step back from its predecessor K20D in order to accommodate video. And Samsung did not make the best sensors at that time. A more appropriate comparison in terms of the state of camera sensors would be with the Nikon D90, whose 12MP Sony sensor still has an edge over the Canon G7X, especially at high-ISO.

Canon PowerShot G7 X versus Nikon D90 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

Still, it is very impressive what these 1" class sensors can do.
11-01-2014, 01:16 PM   #4
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Hhmm.. I think the CX sensor is found in the 1 Nikkon series of cameras. Well, regardless of the name, sensors just keep improving despite the difference in size, like the micro four thirds and the ones found in Sony RX 100 series. It is just remarkable!

How long would it take? Maybe in a few years.

11-01-2014, 02:59 PM   #5
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The sensor makers have really done a good job wresting good performance out of the smaller sensors, which had lagged behind before. It's exciting to think what the future holds.
11-01-2014, 03:27 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
In just 5 years the K-7 is beaten by the CX sensor
5 years is a millenia in the tech world. Its only expected.

But as with computers, where the processor speed and memory and hard drive etc were reasons to upgrade, there came a time when you did not need more efficiency and people did not want to upgrade their computers anymore. Of course, computers then became mobile phones and the same thing is happening in that platform.

When will sensor tech reach the point where it does not provide a reason to upgrade anymore. For many people, that's already happened...
11-01-2014, 03:34 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by psychdoc Quote
5 years is a millenia in the tech world. Its only expected.

But as with computers, where the processor speed and memory and hard drive etc were reasons to upgrade, there came a time when you did not need more efficiency and people did not want to upgrade their computers anymore. Of course, computers then became mobile phones and the same thing is happening in that platform.

When will sensor tech reach the point where it does not provide a reason to upgrade anymore. For many people, that's already happened...
Isn't that funny? For decades we strove for more powerful computers to run software, and now many people have gone dramatically backwards because enough is... enough.

And now the same has happened with cameras, because convenience & portability trumps image quality and ponderousness.
11-01-2014, 03:45 PM   #8
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And still, I am happy with the photo's that come out of my K-7

11-01-2014, 04:16 PM   #9
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This is physics!!! Size matters, still !
11-01-2014, 05:24 PM   #10
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The difference in performance compared to K5/K3 seems to be just due to the ration of sensor size and pixel size to me... The sensor technology was already available for 4 years now but it was not used for 1" sensor back then... Still apparently the pixels are too small 10MP would have allowed more dynamic range.

But if good sensor performance was important, the Sony APSC Nex serie is small and same APSC performance as our DSLR. And they are not especially new

Problem for theses form factor has always been lenses, not sensor to me.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-01-2014 at 05:30 PM.
11-01-2014, 08:08 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Isn't that funny? For decades we strove for more powerful computers to run software, and now many people have gone dramatically backwards because enough is... enough.

And now the same has happened with cameras, because convenience & portability trumps image quality and ponderousness.
Not quite sure what you mean by backwards?? To be sure, hardware lagged software for decades, finally to catch up about 10+ish
years ago. Since then, it's really not been necessary to upgrade a computer every year or two. My primary laptop for a long
time was a Dell latitude built in 2001 and running Windows 2000. It served me well until 2009.

I agree we're getting close to a similar plateau with the digital photography revolution. Affordable, pro-sumer cameras that can
take images suitable for poster printouts are here, now. Few people need even that capability. Everything beyond, for most,
is icing.
11-02-2014, 04:19 AM   #12
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The K7 was kind of a down point when it came to camera sensors. In order to get it to do video, they got even worse high iso performance. Not good, even for the time, as the Kx and D90 both killed the K7 with high iso performance. Fortunately the K5 fixed that.

As to improvements in APS-C sensors, I don't know how long it is till we get close to quantum efficiency. It feels like there hasn't be significant improvement since the release of the K5 sensor. My hope would be for better dynamic range in the sensor, rather than just better high iso performance.
11-02-2014, 04:21 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
Not quite sure what you mean by backwards?? To be sure, hardware lagged software for decades, finally to catch up about 10+ish
years ago. Since then, it's really not been necessary to upgrade a computer every year or two. My primary laptop for a long
time was a Dell latitude built in 2001 and running Windows 2000. It served me well until 2009.

I agree we're getting close to a similar plateau with the digital photography revolution. Affordable, pro-sumer cameras that can
take images suitable for poster printouts are here, now. Few people need even that capability. Everything beyond, for most,
is icing.
This is more the contrary: hardware stopped its evolution 10 years ago. We just manage it to make it smaller and smaller, not faster. Even through the moore law continue to apply, we don't manage anymore to boost computer frequencies and the multicore promises failed for classic desktop applications: we are stuck to 4 core while most software is unable to really benefit of it.

The software model switched again to a server model (here using web server) where most of the data and computing is done on the server. This give us the universal terminal through web browsers as end user but to companies this give them all our personnal data to play with. This is why the internet is free: companies pay themselves on our personnal data. To them mobile phones are just another way to get their client data and serve ads.

What allowed you to not change your hardware is not that is good enough, but more that a mix of reasons. First processor performance now capped. So no better alternative anyway. Second, outside of 2-3 specific area like video games, the heavy computation are done on server machines, not on desktop anymore. Third point, remaining desktop machines cannot consume more resources because hardware didn't make much progress. The only gain that we had in past years with multiple core is extremely difficult to leverage and in most case is not done.

So now software companies do not care at all of desktop software at all. They provide services through the web. Apps on your phone are just another interface to access the web, no more. They still have the problem that computers didn't gained much performance theses years and that the number of cores too capped. So everybody and their dog in software has a cluster of servers (what we call farms) where you can have hundred/thousand of machine computing all the time mostly statistics to know the client better and present them better ads to make more money. As most services on the internet are free, they have to find a way to make money.

In a sence we exchanged the need to buy powerfull computers with our privacy. We pay with our personnal data, and get in exchange lot of ads. We are supposed to share and do more on more on the internet so we give more and more data ! SmartPhones are just that: a way through we give even more of ourselves ! Share your localization with your GPS, share your contacts, post your feelings on facebook or forums ! Where are you at each time of day? What time do you spend eating, in traffic jam, what hour do you wake up, when do you to bed, how often do you to restaurant ?

I remember reading an article not so long ago with a new software targetted at human resources. It scan the web looking for online identities and avatars. It use ways to consolidate the false identities, the fake name and all together to finally link it to the real person or at least its main google or facebook account. It make a psychological profile out of it to see how you behave. Are you a kind of destructive troll online? (Bad if you want to hired!) Do you loose too much time? What are your politicals preferences? Overall you be a good employe and fit the comporate culture? All of that is computed, analysed etc and the HR just need to give your information to the system to get a repport of everything you did online. At least that their promise...
11-02-2014, 06:44 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Isn't that funny? For decades we strove for more powerful computers to run software, and now many people have gone dramatically backwards because enough is... enough.

And now the same has happened with cameras, because convenience & portability trumps image quality and ponderousness.
But this is nothing new. Ever since we started using technology hundreds of years ago, we have always chosen convenience first on portable devices.
It one reason for 135 film format quickly replaced medium format as the dominating film format. It's also why compact cassette become the dominating audio recording format in the 70:s. Or why pocket watches become popular (for those that could afford them) in the 16th century.

As long as something is "good enough", convenience comes first for most people.
11-02-2014, 07:54 AM   #15
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But enough, now for many items, is more than the best just a few years ago. My Windows tablet has a processor I could not even have dreamed of in my desktops even 5 or 6 years ago. It already does everything I need to do better, faster than I need to do it. I continue to upgrade just because I am a gadget addict, not because I need the new toys. Much the same holds for our current DSLRs.
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