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05-17-2008, 07:13 PM   #1
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FF not all its cracked up to be

so i got my film SLR in the mail couple of days ago and went on to test all of my lenses with it.

i dont do telephoto, so i didnt bother with that, plus the difference in FOV once you go over 300 is neglegable in my opinion

its the wide angle spectrum that i was more concerned about

lenses at my disposal

sigma 10-20
Zenitar fish 16mm prime
Sigma 18mm prime
Cimko 28mm prime
Pentax FA35 prime
Pentax FA43 prime
Chinon 50mm prime


i am not aware of any readily available mass produced FF rectalinear primes that are wider than 15mm

the Sigma 10-20 starts to show 100% blackout vignetting below 14-15mm,

so really the sigma at 10mm gives a FF field of view of 15mm. Please refer to the previous comment to realize that us DSLR guys pretty much have it as good as it gets in terms of rectalinear wide-angle capabilities.

Any difference in DOF is MOOT for such large angles since infinity kicks in after 1-2 meters, and you wouldnt exactly be doing any shallow DOF portraits with 10mm! unless you have a weird art-piece in mind


the Zenitar FE at 16mm gave me the largest FOV my collection offers to date.

however, the Pentax 10-17 fisheye will yield you the same FOV. Aside from F2.8 i think many will agree that the 10-17 is more versatile, particulary thanks to its auto-meter function, and while many dont shoot fast-action pictures using a fish eye, the function is still rather helpful.

(side note: i am surprised that our DSLRS require step-down metering in non-A lenses, considering my film SLR can auto-meter an M lens...)

and if you are really jonsing for some SUPER WIDE FISHEYE in the 8mm range for a FF camera, well, i'm sorry but you fall into the very specialized group, and could probably do well enough with FILM and not complain much.

that, and soon sigma will have (hopefully) its 4.5mm fisheye out in a K mount, so.. go nuts!


on to the wide/normal spectrum.

i'm sorry, but with the vast assortment of various focal lengths that we are offered, you can pick up your desired field of view from the correct prime, 24, 28, 30, 31, 35, 40, 43, 50, 55, 58... seriously guys, this is your argument?


the only valid counter arguments are inherit modifications to PERSPECTIVE and DOF

however i feel this only seriously affects those people that have been making their bread from cameras and have grown so accustomed to a particualr lens's perspective and FOV, otherwise seriously, stop crying, its not the end of the world.

the DOF issue is the only one i cant argue, but i will say that usage of super-thin DOF is not for everyone, it takes alot of skill, and a special type of composition to extract truly artful photographs.

also if you are really offended by this, maybe you should move out of pentax all together, if you take a close look at all of the lenses Pentax is making, they pretty much stopped bothering with anything less than 2.8.


i will however comments on the size and brightness of the viewfinder, it is alot better than my K100D, but not exactly night-day when compared to a pentaprism found in the higher end DSLR models

a 100-150 dollar investment into a KATZ EYE will solve all your complaining, i agree that a split-prism screen should be included with every SLR camera sold, but hey, i'm not the engineer here.


so, conclusion, now having operated BOTH a FF and a cropped sensor camera, i can provide my fully grounded opinion that it IS NOT A BIG DEAL

and if the alternative to FF is a cheaper camera that provides stellar images, well, tie me in a bag and throw me off a bridge but i'll take it.

/ rant

05-17-2008, 07:15 PM   #2
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you did however forget that sigma makes a FF 12-24.

if you really want wide, that is the way to go
05-17-2008, 07:16 PM   #3
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^
that was my 1000th post, WOOHOO
05-17-2008, 07:17 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
you did however forget that sigma makes a FF 12-24.

if you really want wide, that is the way to go
cool! news to me, i should check it out.

wait its a FF designed lens (from the old days) or a modern one designed for the few FF DSLR's??

05-17-2008, 07:24 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
cool! news to me, i should check it out.

wait its a FF designed lens (from the old days) or a modern one designed for the few FF DSLR's??
its a DG lens, probably a coated rear element version of a film lens. It does get in some magizenes better reviews than the 10-20, but on a DSLR I like the 10-20. Are you sure about the vignetting at 15mm.

While not scientific, it seemd to be gone at about 13 on my PZ-1. I gusee I could always put a roll of film in and try.
05-17-2008, 07:28 PM   #6
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you dont really need a roll

just put it on and look in the viewfinder. My instructions for the super program states that the viewfinder shows either 95 or 92% of whats actualy going to be on the film

EDIT:

i just put it on again just to reference, at 13-14mm my fiewfinder is free of total darkness vignetting, but assuming that is still that area that the viewfinder doesnt cover that means its probably in the 14-15 range if you want to avoid that complete darkness
05-18-2008, 10:10 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
wait its a FF designed lens (from the old days) or a modern one designed for the few FF DSLR's??
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
its a DG lens, probably a coated rear element version of a film lens. It does get in some magizenes better reviews than the 10-20, but on a DSLR I like the 10-20.
If you need to know anything about this lens (Sigma 12-14 FF Sigma - Lenses) ... ask me, I am a happy owner of one. It is getting more expensive every year
05-18-2008, 11:40 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
(side note: i am surprised that our DSLRS require step-down metering in non-A lenses, considering my film SLR can auto-meter an M lens...)
Has something to do with going from mechanical sensing of aperture to electronical, if I remember right (the digital mounts are therefore 'crippled' in that way).

05-18-2008, 02:07 PM   #9
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Just loaded my LX. I had forgot how good an SLR smell when I open it, compared to a DSLR. They don't smell anything. But if I did not grow up with it I assume I would not care.
05-18-2008, 04:45 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Just loaded my LX. I had forgot how good an SLR smell when I open it, compared to a DSLR. They don't smell anything. But if I did not grow up with it I assume I would not care.
i would assume its the leather?

or the rotting mirror buffer
05-18-2008, 06:59 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by KjetilH Quote
Has something to do with going from mechanical sensing of aperture to electronical, if I remember right (the digital mounts are therefore 'crippled' in that way).
Pentax didn't carry the mechanical aperture cam follower into the modern era. They dropped it with some of their last model MZ film cameras and the ist film cameras, and their DSLR cameras.
This is why we have the green button metering thing when we use pre A lenses, and I am pretty sure it is why the K10/K20 have such abysmal metering in anything but broad daylight with pre A lenses. The meter of these cameras seem very erratic at low light levels, which is what they are metering with when stopped down.
05-18-2008, 11:13 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i would assume its the leather?

or the rotting mirror buffer
There is nothing rotten in my cameras.

I suppose if they are brand new they don't smell more than a bit of metal, but when a large number of films have passed through them, they catch the smell of film and carry it even if there is no film there at the moment. And if you debuted in the dark room when you were seven the smell of film is full of memories. Try to smell a memory card...

My point was (although you may have missed it) that the use of full frame or film cameras are different in more than one way from DSLR, and this experienced with all senses carry habits and memories. Part of us dreaming about a full frame DSLR want to see the same frame in the camera when using the same favorite lenses (which could come true), part of you will want to smell the film when you open the camera (which won't come true with any DSLR FF), etc etc. It is not necessarily rational, and does not have to be. Don't know if it is enough to give Pentax a FF market, but I would not be surprised. We are conservative.

I'm sure, those of you who started in the digital era will some time in the future miss part of it when DSLRs are replaced with something else.
05-19-2008, 12:37 AM   #13
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My K1000 smells like victory.
05-19-2008, 01:02 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
My K1000 smells like victory.
*steals KungPow's surfboard*

*covers PBR with palm fronds*
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