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11-15-2014, 09:36 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The thread diverged quickly from the title in the original post.

The major premise (pervasive aversion) was false. As a result, the original post was basically a rant and rants beget rants.


Steve
Precise analysis.

11-15-2014, 09:52 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The thread diverged quickly from the title in the original post.

The major premise (pervasive aversion) was false.
Was it? I have read loads of posts about how somebody would buy a camera if it only didn't have video/how video is useless and it should be banished/how somebody was bothered that their camera shot video and it "got in the way" even though there were NO BUTTONS on the camera that only worked in the video mode. I have been around Nikon forums a lot (D5000 as my first camera) and I must say these posts appear about 3x as frequently on Pentax-oriented forums.
11-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by Giklab Quote
I have been around Nikon forums a lot (D5000 as my first camera) and I must say these posts appear about 3x as frequently on Pentax-oriented forums.
I guess that explains the Df, eh?


Steve

---------- Post added 11-15-14 at 08:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Precise analysis.
Yeah, too bad I edited to include a full-fledged rant.


Steve
11-15-2014, 10:00 AM - 1 Like   #154
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QuoteQuote:
even though there were NO BUTTONS on the camera that only worked in the video mode.
The video switch on the K-3 is there because of video. If you're going to go on trashing other people , at least get it right.
And for your information, it has been accidentally switched to video more than once, causing momentary confusion and missed shots.

11-15-2014, 10:24 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Not different at all. That is the point - we tend to mainly talk past each other.

Yes, I certainly agree. I can assure you that I am just as guilty in that regard as almost anyone else. I have noted that and am working to try to stay close (r) to the OP posting than I have in the past. I think it is nice that you have pointed this out, however. Thanks.
11-15-2014, 10:26 AM   #156
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Good point, Norm. I do not mind that the video people have the extra toy on their K3 but it has messed me up more than once. A high percentage of my photography is done hiking, climbing, scrambling where it is easy to accidentally hit the video switch and get garbage for moment. Of course, it is my fault for not checking but sometimes the photo opportunity is very fleeting. I have no aversion to video but it's presence is not an unmixed blessing.
11-15-2014, 11:09 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I guess that explains the Df, eh?
There was actually a guy who said he would buy a Df if it had video. I am not screwing you around here, as incredible as this sounds. I'll try to find that post. I do wonder how many Dfs were sold.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The video switch on the K-3 is there because of video.
Yes, yes it is.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you're going to go on trashing other people , at least get it right.
Sure.

Sorry, I really don't understand your post.
11-15-2014, 11:14 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Giklab Quote
I do wonder how many Dfs were sold.
That is hard to say. Tuco bought one and uses it alongside his D800 and likes both. The Df is supposed to offer some advantage with vintage F-mount glass, but I am not enough into the Nikon world to know what that might be.


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11-15-2014, 11:38 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is hard to say. Tuco bought one and uses it alongside his D800 and likes both. The Df is supposed to offer some advantage with vintage F-mount glass, but I am not enough into the Nikon world to know what that might be.


Steve
The Df has an aperture coupling lever that can be flipped out of the way. Old Nikon glass ("pre-Ai") would usually break that when used on cameras that supported metering with slightly-less-old lenses ("Ai").
11-15-2014, 11:48 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The video switch on the K-3 is there because of video. If you're going to go on trashing other people , at least get it right.
And for your information, it has been accidentally switched to video more than once, causing momentary confusion and missed shots.
I can't believe I read all 6 pages of comments... Well, since the OP directly referred one of my threads I felt compelled to read through...

And regarding my "rant" and "anti-video" thread, I do not have an aversion for video, I find it useless and of no interest on my DSLR, I think it is a bit of a gimmick for marketing people and I also think that most people with DSLR would better be served with a smartphone for shooting casual video. There are some people who wants better controls and shallower DOF and the option to use great glasses to make video and it is legitimate use of a camera with an APSC sensor.

However, I DO have an aversion regarding the video switch on the K3, for the exact reason nornhead stated, missed shot. It is especially true when I'm out shooting with both the K-5 and the K-3.

Put video mode back on the mode dial and give all the video people what they want, SR, better codecs and all the features they wish for. As long as it doesn't get in the way of the still shooter.

I just don't get why it is imperative to have an instant ON video mode? Surely when shooting video, you would like to fiddle with the camera settings and tweak a few things... If you need an instant ON, record video right now, no matter what, there are better options. If you need a tool to make motion picture quality video with great lightning and well composed and thought of shots, I'm sure rotating a dial on top a few clicks isn't much of an issue. Most "new" features (dedicated video button, SR, AF...) are not to make the DSLR more on par with pro-camcorder and motion picture camera, they are features to make the DSLR on par with smartphones.

I never (or very rarely) use burst mode and you will not hear me rant about it. Until they stick a machine gun mode button right where the exposure comp button (or ISO) is...
11-15-2014, 12:46 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by fgaudet Quote

However, I DO have an aversion regarding the video switch on the K3, for the exact reason nornhead stated, missed shot. It is especially true when I'm out shooting with both the K-5 and the K-3.

Put video mode back on the mode dial and give all the video people what they want, SR, better codecs and all the features they wish for. As long as it doesn't get in the way of the still shooter.
This is exactly it. No one cares if the video using people have that option but since it is an add on to a still camera it should never get in the way of taking photographs. By the way Sony had the same problem with the NEX 7 which for a year or so was the flagship NEX camera. One of the problems with that camera was the placement of the video button where it could (and often was) accidentally activated. They fixed that in subsequent NEX models.
11-15-2014, 12:54 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The thread diverged quickly from the title in the original post.

The major premise (pervasive aversion) was false. As a result, the original post was basically a rant and rants beget rants.

Edit: But wait! There's more! The sequence goes something like this and has happened on multiple threads on this site:
  • User expresses interest in buying Pentax dSLR
  • Other users offer their opinions regarding the various models
  • Some users might make comparisons to models from other brands
  • Then someone will post that the video sucks in very dogmatic and blunt terms
  • There will be a withering protest that it is not that bad
  • Then a return volley that if Pentax is doomed it is because its video sucks and its execs are stupid for not seeing the room for improvement that will save the brand
  • The content of the comments are a virtual copy/paste of comments from the same users on other threads throughout the site
  • And so it goes...the hijack is complete
I don't believe that the behavior is simple trolling, even though it may look that way. I do believe that some contributors think that they might influence Ricoh's development path by repeated references to the same set of desired missing features. They may very well do so. After all, the presence of AA filter bracketing was the result of user suggestion.


Steve
Precisely. I do mention that video isn't to good, just to make sure the buyer won't regret. I don't need to go into a discussion, it's just meant to be informative.

The idea is indeed to give some ideas to Pentax/to influence them perhaps. I'd rather do it directly, if there is a place to do so I'd be thankful for a pointer.

---------- Post added 15-11-14 at 21:33 ----------

I want Pentax to be better with video and I think that switch on the K-3 is a bad idea. I do want an instant recording button, because sometimes you don't necessarily want to create a movie, you just want to be able to quickly switch between stills and video, cause I like to shoot both, and switch fast between both. And maybe you want to use M, P, Tv etc., basically the mode dial should stay functional even in video mode.

Still, no switch, long press on a rec button would be more than enough, plus it is convenient. And it doesn't have to be on the mode dial.

SR is also a consumer thing, but it would enable more serious videographers to shoot more "undercover", or get a certain look, or it could help photojournalists who also need to get something that is good enough without having to carry much more gear.
11-15-2014, 02:07 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
SR is also a consumer thing, but it would enable more serious videographers to shoot more "undercover", or get a certain look, or it could help photojournalists who also need to get something that is good enough without having to carry much more gear.
Absolutely


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11-15-2014, 04:49 PM   #164
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So I guess we might agree that it would be nice if Pentax offered:
Less video exclusive controls (please let people who only want to do stills turn their camera into one which does exactly that... meaning even a tab in the menu will be gone). More video controls for people who do want them - give choice. IBIS, if it is technically possible. Invest a little bit in finding out what videographers might want, and in implementing those things. No need to go crazy with raw etc., just what is possible without too much effort. At least for the K-3 (firmware updates... everyone else is doing it!) and any new cameras.


In turn Pentax fans who are interested in video can try to spread the word... things such as IBIS is of interest to some filmmakers... let alone the wonderful Pentax primes.
11-16-2014, 06:23 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I guess that explains the Df, eh?


Steve

---------- Post added 11-15-14 at 08:56 AM ----------



Yeah, too bad I edited to include a full-fledged rant.


Steve
I'm not sure the premise was so false.
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