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11-12-2014, 08:36 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I'll try to use my K30 doing some video tonight, just to see if I have been missing something. I don't even know how to access video in that camera, time to find or download the manual.
Even better, Drypenn, upload the footage to ... er, not these forums, it'll have to be Vimeo!

I think we should all practice and do video introductions of ourselves. It's a way of testing my theory Uluru is actually a wholesome teenage girl.

11-12-2014, 08:42 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I'll try to use my K30 doing some video tonight, just to see if I have been missing something. I don't even know how to access video in that camera, time to find or download the manual.
Give it a try. It is actually kind of fun. My first experiment was doing a walking tour of the house pulling focus for various objects of interest. Yes, a lens with good manual focus helps


Steve

---------- Post added 11-12-14 at 07:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
versus a model without one but will come with a spare battery.
Ummmm...you will need the spare battery if you are doing much video.


Steve

---------- Post added 11-12-14 at 07:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think we should all practice and do video introductions of ourselves. It's a way of testing my theory Uluru is actually a wholesome teenage girl.



Steve
11-12-2014, 08:53 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I'll try to use my K30 doing some video tonight, just to see if I have been missing something. I don't even know how to access video in that camera, time to find or download the manual.

---------- Post added 11-13-14 at 11:35 AM ----------



Or if it's just possible: let customers choose between a model with video, versus a model without one but will come with a spare battery.
Good luck! Video mode is usually accessed by the mode dial, and in the menu there is one part where you can go to the video settings. 4th page of the first block on my K-5. Off movie SR. Your Panasonic will be more convenient to use, that much I can tell you. What model do you have, btw.? Try to use a fast prime, if you can, they seem to be easier to focus (with something like the 18-55 everything will look like it's in focus, even though the focus is slightly off. It's really hard to tell on the screen).


What if leaving away video doesn't save them money...?


My K-5 easily gets through 1 1/2 hours of video on the original battery, maybe more. It's not too bad, given how small the battery is (my old Panasonic video camera was comparable, with a comparable battery. It did have a miniDV drive...). Additional batteries never hurt though. (btw., Patona sells a wonderful battery charger for Pentax (and other) batteries, that works with a regular power outlet, with a 12V car socket and with USB (and thus also with powerbanks used to charge phones). Great way to charge the battery on the go).
11-12-2014, 08:53 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Coming at this from another angle, testing the audience's priorities.

If the FF Pentax DSLR comes along with two models ... one with no video capability like the Nikon Df, one with reasonable ... how much more would people be prepared to pay? For me, it couldn't be more than $50, even on a two grand product. I just wouldn't use it.
I would pay $50 for my camera NOT to have video. Does that count? Not being facetious, btw. One fewer menu to click past, one fewer position on the mode dial, one less switch I'll never touch (on K-3). But that'll never happen, so I guess I'm stuck with video. I'm tough, I can deal with it.

11-12-2014, 10:00 PM - 2 Likes   #110
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I think some people in this thread have a lofty idea of what "professional video" means. It's very broad. I work at a cinema camera rental house full time in Los Angeles, and people use DSLRs for pro projects on an extremely regular basis.

In fact, I can name cinematographers who work on shows you see on television using cameras like Alexa / RED, then work on lower budget projects with 5Ds on other days. Literally.
11-13-2014, 01:46 AM - 1 Like   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I think some people in this thread have a lofty idea of what "professional video" means. It's very broad. I work at a cinema camera rental house full time in Los Angeles, and people use DSLRs for pro projects on an extremely regular basis.

In fact, I can name cinematographers who work on shows you see on television using cameras like Alexa / RED, then work on lower budget projects with 5Ds on other days. Literally.
+1

Professional cinematographers are not very different from professional photographers: They use the tool that suits them best in respect to the assignment and budget. Strangely, some of the people that bring up that argument know that very well.

Being completely oblivious to video myself, I was extremely pleasantly surprised with the quality (and fun) of the K-5's video. I had a blast trying out all my lenses on video. I can't imagine any other reason why Pentax and users themselves would want to cripple that free extra feature, other then some film era thinking.
11-13-2014, 03:38 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think we should all practice and do video introductions of ourselves.
That would be really cool. +1

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It's a way of testing my theory Uluru is actually a wholesome teenage girl.
wat

Merriam-Webster:
whole·some adjective \ˈhōl-səm\
: helping to keep your body healthy : good for your health

: morally good

: suggesting good health or behavior

Full Definition of WHOLESOME

1
: promoting health or well-being of mind or spirit
2
: promoting health of body
3
a : sound in body, mind, or morals
b : having the simple health or vigor of normal domesticity
4
a : based on well-grounded fear : prudent <a wholesome respect for the law>
b : safe <it wouldn't be wholesome for you to go down there — Mark Twain>
— whole·some·ly adverb
— whole·some·ness noun
11-13-2014, 04:17 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
I would pay $50 for my camera NOT to have video. Does that count? Not being facetious, btw. One fewer menu to click past, one fewer position on the mode dial, one less switch I'll never touch (on K-3). But that'll never happen, so I guess I'm stuck with video. I'm tough, I can deal with it.
If I were designing cameras at Pentax the switch were gone (used for AF again? That was the perfect place for the AF button). Just one small record video button you can reassign to do whatever you want. Maybe even remove the mode dial position, though it's nice to have a preview for the different AR. Maybe the record video button can also switch the camera to video mode with a long press, so the AR changes. The menu would give you the option to hide the video menu, you can find that option on the last page of the last folder. Done. For me that means video controls that are fast to use, easy to switch between, for you that means you won't even notice ir has video.

Problem solved.

I'd like to see a Pentax that also appeals to entry level filmmakers, or people who just want to do both without adding much additional gear. They'll enjoy the WR, the IBIS, the compact body, headphone out and nice set of good quality primes. Gives Pentax the reason to make more nice primes, and expand on what the stills guys like about the camera in the first place. Quality improvements are made by Sony and Fujitsu, not so much Pentax has to do. They don't have to sacrifice stills for video (which to some extend they did with the K-3, IMHO), I for one would hate that.


Last edited by kadajawi; 11-13-2014 at 04:22 AM.
11-13-2014, 06:06 AM   #114
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You can do decent video with a dslr, but it won't be as good as if done with a true video camera? Im shocked! Of course I was just as surprised to find out that my 8 ounce tack hammer won't drive 10 penny nails as well as a framing hammer. Who knew? confused2
11-13-2014, 06:37 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
You can do decent video with a dslr, but it won't be as good as if done with a true video camera? Im shocked! Of course I was just as surprised to find out that my 8 ounce tack hammer won't drive 10 penny nails as well as a framing hammer. Who knew? :confused2:
That depends on your definition of video camera. If you say an Arri Alexa is a video camera, then yes indeed, video cameras are better. I think of such a camera, or say a C100 and above, as a cinema camera, while video is a much more consumer thing. What TV studios use are IIRC broadcasting cameras? So they too don't fall under video cameras.

If we compare a $1500 video camera for consumers and a DSLR, the DSLR will have better video quality, a "nicer" look and control over the look, at the cost of much more effort and, often, much more gear that is needed. A video camera will have easier handling and does everything automatically (though manual controls are available), and you can shoot it right out of the box.

Pentax is in the unique position of being able to easily upgrade their cameras to a place where additional gear is not so necessary, giving them a decent advantage over other brands, yet they don't do it. That is what frustrates me, and some others, so much. They are so close...
11-13-2014, 06:47 AM   #116
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But back to the original question "Why the aversion to video?" The most obvious answer is, most of the world has an aversion to video. They ike to see them, not make them. If you're talking about Pentax... why would Pentaxians be any different than the rest of the world. And interest in still photography does not necessarily lead to an interest in Video. And it does so in probably less than 2% of the DSLR population. There are far more people who want video on their camera who will use it less than 5 times in the life of the camera, than there are people who are going to get even serious enough to take a few clips and edit them.

Video is a skill, and a mindset. It's really a job. A job that is better done by talented engaged people, but still a job. Every single member of society who does not have that mindset, could be claimed to have an "Aversion" to video. Hopefully by now you see what I see. This is a negative mindset. The truth is, normal people don't do video, exceptional people do video. It's a passion. Normal people dabble in it briefly and go on to something with more reward for less time.

Most people want the equivalent of a super 8, the ability to film their 5 year old jumping into the pool and playing. If it goes more than a minute it gets boring. Pentax is already fine for that. Trying to please folks who want more than that, that's a whole other market.

Last edited by normhead; 11-13-2014 at 06:56 AM.
11-13-2014, 07:01 AM   #117
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I agree normhead, to do it well is really hard. But the numbers... not so sure about that. Photography is about creating something artistic, telling story in a visual way. There is some connection.

If it really were such a small number of the population, that would show in sales figures, and camera makers wouldn't bother. However they do, and cameras that excel at video can't be produced fast enough, while cameras that don't are sitting on shelves and in warehouses. There is a reason why, begrudgingly, Nikon invests in video. Why Olympus and Fuji are moving towards video. Why the NX1 has created quite some buzz (I doubt many stills shooters crave for 15 fps).

And quite frankly I see about as many people, young and old, around me, who are interested in still or video. Stills don't dominate. Plenty of people (especially my older relatives) have more interest in creating videos. They won't all be high quality, they have no clue about editing, but they like them. (Admittedly a video camera is probably more suitable for them.)

I enjoy shooting video, I don't enjoy editing it nearly as much, unless I get the chance to work on a story, with actors and a crew. I somewhat enjoyed cutting grispie's footage to form a bit of a story out of it, even though the purpose was just to grade it.

I agree with your last addition, and I sort of fall in that category for at least some of my videos (though I strive for a nice look and good quality) though to fulfill that purpose IBIS would help a lot. Again, possible selling point for Pentax that they just don't use.
11-13-2014, 07:39 AM   #118
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Sometimes some of you guys think too much, and take things too seriously, I think. That goes both for photography and video.

The greatest market for DSLRs are families who just want a good quality camera to register moments in their lives. I'm certainly in that demographic.

So if the pictures of their babies or kids or birthday parties or Christmas or whatever, don't look like they were made by Ansel Adams, who cares. At least they have decent quality pictures to remember those moments, after the kids grow up, after a loved one passes away, etc.

Same goes for video. Just because I'm not Ridley Scott doesn't mean I should be discouraged from filming my kids while they're playing in the yard or at the park, or when the baby is saying something extremely cute.

Video, in my opinion, was the reason for the huge boom in DSLR sales that went on from about 2009-2013. Everybody already had a DSLR, but now everybody had to have a DSLR with video. Now that everybody who wanted one has one, the DSLR market has slowed down tremendously in the last couple years, and it's back to pre-2009 levels, sort of.

Also, one of the reasons Pentax failed to take advantage of the aforementioned sales booms, is because the video was inferior, especially because there was no autofocus during video recording. Yes you can laugh at us but us dads and moms need all the help we can have while we chase our kids around.

So, don't take life too seriously, and if you don't like the fact that your Pentax has video, just don't use it, and stop complaining about it. Those of us who use it, will thank you for not trying to get Pentax to change in a way that would make us have to look for another brand of camera.
11-13-2014, 07:56 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Video, in my opinion, was the reason for the huge boom in DSLR sales that went on from about 2009-2013. Everybody already had a DSLR, but now everybody had to have a DSLR with video. Now that everybody who wanted one has one, the DSLR market has slowed down tremendously in the last couple years, and it's back to pre-2009 levels, sort of.

I have to disagree with this one, based on my experience in various kindergarden/school/dance school/gymnastics events. People who want to record video use their phones/ipads/video cameras. All people with DSLRs I've seen in these events were taking photos, and 99% had a basic kit and used full auto mode. They got a DSLR because someone told them that's what you buy if you want 'quality' photos. In my neck of woods, people don't connect video with a DSLR, and in general don't want anything better than a phone for video.


Another thing is that, yes, most of the parents record video and very few take photos, but that's because most of the parents bring only their phones to the event.

In my opinion a market for people who need better than basic video capability in a DSLR is extremely small and definitely doesn't figure in mass retail market. Doing token video implementation and slapping a sticker CAN HAS VIDEO has it covered.
11-13-2014, 08:06 AM   #120
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I think it's far easier for a complete noob to get good still shots from a DSLR than to get good video, at least with a K5. Other camera bodies may be better.

I don't complain about video and don't really care whether the camera has it or not. The video feature is going to continue because the market and all those consumer reviews demand it.
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