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11-19-2014, 05:39 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
We all have things we want or don't want on cameras. For myself, I could do away with 90% of the modes and metering patterns on modern cameras, as well as the built in flash. I have been arguing in favor of good video because that's something I would dearly love to have on my next DSLR, but more than that, I think video has already become something that most people expect, not only from their cameras, but from their cellphones, laptops, tablets, etc... It's just part of modern life and I think Pentax would be ill-advised to ignore that. Just as 35mm was basically movie film that had been re-spooled, at it's core digital photography is extremely close to video. They're more than "kissing cousins"...they're siblings. It's primarily just the imaging devices that differ...and not by all that much.
Shooting modes are a feature which should be relatively cheap to implement and is useful for those who want to transition to a DLSR but fear the shock that it will cause...
Maybe even them will abandon it in a month or so, but it's important that it was there at the moment of purchase...
Video done right, OTOH, is a massive endeavor, and one worthy of a dedicated camera IMHO.
A mirrorless with advanced video functions and K-mount, perhaps... even APS-C would be good.

11-20-2014, 05:18 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Shooting modes are a feature which should be relatively cheap to implement and is useful for those who want to transition to a DLSR but fear the shock that it will cause...
Maybe even them will abandon it in a month or so, but it's important that it was there at the moment of purchase...

Those same new DSLR users were probably using a P&S camera before that had video on it. A DSLR is a big investment for many people. They're going to expect it to do everything their little camera did...and more.

---------- Post added 11-20-2014 at 08:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Video done right, OTOH, is a massive endeavor, and one worthy of a dedicated camera IMHO. A mirrorless with advanced video functions and K-mount, perhaps... even APS-C would be good.
That's kind of the point, though. Video USED to be a massive endeavor, but the digital world has made it affordable to the masses. However, I'm not stuck on it having to be a DSLR w/video. A good Pentax mirrorless that had an emphasis on video would work for me.
11-20-2014, 05:26 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Those same new DSLR users were probably using a P&S camera before that had video on it. A DSLR is a big investment for many people. They're going to expect it to do everything their little camera did...and more.

---------- Post added 11-20-2014 at 08:22 AM ----------


That's kind of the point, though. Video USED to be a massive endeavor, but the digital world has made it affordable to the masses. However, I'm not stuck on it having to be a DSLR w/video. A good Pentax mirrorless that had an emphasis on video would work for me.
You see? I was talking about P&S user base. Any video is more than enough for them.
I was talking pro video with low compression options, proper hdmi output, zebras, proper SR implementation, maybe a parfocal lens lineup... those sorta things that a soccer mom wouldn't know what to do with.

Video wathever is affordable, video done right is costly and niche, but can sell well if you know what you're doing (Canon, Panny).
11-20-2014, 06:22 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
You see? I was talking about P&S user base. Any video is more than enough for them.
Or...maybe not if they've decided to make a major investment in a more expensive camera. Shouldn't Pentax have the same calling cards as Canon or Sony to help attract these new users?

---------- Post added 11-20-2014 at 09:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Video wathever is affordable, video done right is costly and niche...
I guess it depends upon what you call "done right". There are production companies in my town who are totally based around DSLR cameras. Primarily, they're shooting Panasonic or Canon, but there's no reason it shouldn't be Pentax with their wealth of legacy lenses available. Btw, I make my living as a videographer...and have for over 20 years. I suspect folks are tired of hearing that, but don't think I have no frame of reference on this issue. When I started shooting and editing non-linear video, I was working on a Mac with a 66mhz processor and had 27 gigs of storage, which was beyond most people's comprehension at the time. That system cost over $100,000 and the camcorder I used cost around $65,000. Actually, I'm so old, camcorders didn't exist when I started. If you wanted to shoot something portable, you used a 16mm film camera. So I've seen it all. Today, a college student can have a system much better than my original high-end system for around $2000...camera, computer, software. The hottest camera on the market over the last few years has been the GoPro. That was a $300 camera that revolutionized video production. They are EVERYWHERE these days! So...what is your definition of "video done right"?

11-21-2014, 02:44 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Or...maybe not if they've decided to make a major investment in a more expensive camera. Shouldn't Pentax have the same calling cards as Canon or Sony to help attract these new users?

---------- Post added 11-20-2014 at 09:32 PM ----------



I guess it depends upon what you call "done right". There are production companies in my town who are totally based around DSLR cameras. Primarily, they're shooting Panasonic or Canon, but there's no reason it shouldn't be Pentax with their wealth of legacy lenses available. Btw, I make my living as a videographer...and have for over 20 years. I suspect folks are tired of hearing that, but don't think I have no frame of reference on this issue. When I started shooting and editing non-linear video, I was working on a Mac with a 66mhz processor and had 27 gigs of storage, which was beyond most people's comprehension at the time. That system cost over $100,000 and the camcorder I used cost around $65,000. Actually, I'm so old, camcorders didn't exist when I started. If you wanted to shoot something portable, you used a 16mm film camera. So I've seen it all. Today, a college student can have a system much better than my original high-end system for around $2000...camera, computer, software. The hottest camera on the market over the last few years has been the GoPro. That was a $300 camera that revolutionized video production. They are EVERYWHERE these days! So...what is your definition of "video done right"?
I was talking about the cost Ricoh/Pentax would have to sustain to implement a the features that would be useful for serious video... not the cost of the equipment for the end user.
They presently have no video-oriented camera, and they'd have to produce one building a lot of stuff from the ground up (the things I mentioned in the previous post): that's a lot of research, programming and testing to do. What if it doesn't sell?
OTOH the cost they have to sustain if they continue to include something they can call video just like they are doing now, with no extra effort, is nearly zero.

I'm totally with you on your last argument, it's not expensive at all for the end user nowadays.
11-21-2014, 04:45 AM   #66
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I don't think Pentax needs to make a C500 competitor... maybe it could make financial sense eventually (coupled with cinema versions of their primes... especially the limited ones). But just look how far they can go on a limited budget once they know the demands of videographers. Find out about that first, then see what can be implemented.

Until recently having IBIS for video would have been a big enough differentiator... the only DSLR with manual controls and IBIS. Big deal. Now of course Sony has entered the arena with IBIS, now it is going to be much harder and the lead was wasted.

Maybe Pentax will see how people react to the new Sony (and I bet the a7S will also gain IBIS), and reconsider their stance.

Just look at Magic Lantern. A couple of developers, in their free time, and without access to the source code of the Canon firmwares, greatly enhance the cameras. Without Magic Lantern I doubt Canon could sell many cameras because of their video functionality. They are not that good. But ML makes a difference. ML on a Pentax with official support and access to sources, and with IBIS because that's the first thing they'd activate...
11-21-2014, 05:03 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
*snip*
Just look at Magic Lantern. A couple of developers, in their free time, and without access to the source code of the Canon firmwares, greatly enhance the cameras. Without Magic Lantern I doubt Canon could sell many cameras because of their video functionality. They are not that good. But ML makes a difference. ML on a Pentax with official support and access to sources, and with IBIS because that's the first thing they'd activate...
I'd second someone's suggestion that Ricoh/Pentax executives gift a couple free cameras and possibly the sources to the ML group...
That would be a nearly 0 investment for a great return...
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